The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: alfsauve on March 31, 2017, 02:43:20 PM
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Nothing new, that probably hasn't already be reported. Got to take mine to the range. Only had time for 100 rounds. Barely got her warm.
First: Good sights. Nice sized white dots. Probably the best set of 3 dots I've seen. Now I also know that sights are easily replaceable so they really aren't a buy/no-buy deal breaker on any gun. Kinda like paint when buying a house. But for the record these are quite nice.
Second: The magazine only has witness holes for 5, 10 & 17 rounds. Really? Glock has them for every round, though they're hard to read. S&W M&Ps are so much better with easily readable holes on either side. Okay, I realize that an "Operator" just wants to know if they're full, half or near empty. But most of us, I think, would be happier to be able to get an exact count.
Weight and Heft: I've been dry firing and comparing the 320 with the G17 and M&P all week and thought the SIG was top heavy. So I took all three apart and weighed them. Now remember the G17 is an inch longer barrel and the M&P is about 1/4-1/2" longer.
The Sig has the lightest slide and barrel of the three which makes sense because it's the shortest. But it also has the the heaviest grip/action ! (All three are 17 round mag length.) So why does it feel top heavy? Maybe it's not top heavy as much as it's FRONT heavy, as in it has a more forward COG. I'll do some more testing. Oh and the grip is hand filling. It's 5.5" circumference for the third finger.
Oh, yes, shooting. Smooth. Great feel. Same recoil as my M&P. Less spongy trigger than the M&P. Accuracy was better than the G17, but not quite what I could do with the M&P. It was a short test.
Overall, shooting the G17 is like driving a stripped 68 VW Thing. The Sig and S&W are more like an Impala.
I'm very happy I took my "free" Glock and traded it in on the P320. It'll be my iron sight IDPA SSP (if it fits the box) and the M&P Core will be the optic one.
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Dang it Alf , I shot a 320 compact in .45acp during my last range qualification, just messing around I got a one ragged hole group at 7 yards. I went home but didn't tell my other Glock pistols that I had been with a Sig 320 that day, felt kinda ashamed and a little cheap and dirty.
Now after your glowing range report I've been rethinking about getting one.
Guess I'm a gun slut after all. 8)
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We're all gun sluts,otherwise we wouldn't be here. ;) ;)
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We're all gun sluts,otherwise we wouldn't be here. ;) ;)
Well, duh.
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So I check COG on these three semi-autos.
As a percentage of slide length from the front, 50%, 56%, .49%. No big difference. So, no the Sig isn't front heavy.
Still feels like it's top heavy when I heft it. I'm not saying that's a bad thing. I just want to know why it feels that way to me. With a full magazine, the COG moves back and down of course.
Probably all I'll do with the Sig for a little while. I've got the first ICORE match coming up in a week. And I'll need to buy magazines for it. There might be an indoor IDPA match that I could get to to try this out.
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Now that my eyes have been replaced, I got to the range for the first time in months.
Put 250 rounds through the P320 without a hitch. So far so good.
Went looking for a "small" grip. Evidently Sig is a little behind in getting the various size grips out the door. Took a while to figure out what come with what. Here's a short course.
Barrel / Height
FULL SIZE 4.7" / 5.5"
CARRY 3.9" / 5.5"
COMPACT 3.9" / 5.3"
SUB 3.6" / 4.7"
The Grips do actually vary in circumference, which is something I've been asking for. I guess a year ago when I asked a sales rep, he didn't understand or didn't know that.
Grip Circumference
Large - 5.5"
Medium - 5.375" ~ I don't actually have one to measure right now.
Small - 5.25"
The different models, (Full, Carry, Comp, Sub) have different length fore ends (dust covers). It's possible to mix them up and having a dust cover too long or too short. I know one pro who gets the longer grip, puts it on the shorter barrel and cuts off the excess.
Since small and medium grips are in short supply, I was able to score a Compact Small for my Carry today from Sig. If I really like it and the short dust cover is a bother I can always get the right one later. They're only $44.
Wait till you see what I discovered on their web site. Next Topic.
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Alf... your center of gravity problems may lie in the fact that SiG barrels typically sit relatively high in comparison to the grip location
new topic... my 7" AR 9mm upper came in... fun to shoot... was unable to control the muzzle blast of the 7" 5.56, so changing barrels to the 10.5"... stay tuned
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Alf... your center of gravity problems may lie in the fact that SiG barrels typically sit relatively high in comparison to the grip location
new topic... my 7" AR 9mm upper came in... fun to shoot... was unable to control the muzzle blast of the 7" 5.56, so changing barrels to the 10.5"... stay tuned
Our military decided about 50 years ago that the 10" barrel of the XM177E1 was too short. I always thought that would be a good length for an AR pistol. Anything shorter probably has too much muzzle blast in 5.56mm.
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Our military decided about 50 years ago that the 10" barrel of the XM177E1 was too short. I always thought that would be a good length for an AR pistol. Anything shorter probably has too much muzzle blast in 5.56mm.
God, it has been 50 years....thanks, Jumbo :( :( :(
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Jumbo.... my source says that Special Forces is switching to the MK18 (10.3")... of course they have options depending on the mission requirement...
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God, it has been 50 years....thanks, Jumbo :( :( :(
It's been so long that some AR's qualify as Curio's and Relics .
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In basic training 1979-80 I saw a couple of M16A1s that could be curios & relics. One was a Harrington & Richardson. If I'm not mistaken that one was marked AR-15 instead of M16A1 and also the color of the lower receiver was different from any other AR-15/M16 I ever saw. The other one was marked HYDRA-MATIC DIV. G.M. CORP. I don't recall what model number was stamped on that one but believe it was M16A1. I think both were made during the Vietnam war. I can only recall seeing one of each of those.
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I went through USAF basic in Feb 1970... for "dry fire" we disassembled Armalite AR15s (Costa Mesa IIRC) that rattled pretty badly... for live fire I think we had Colt M16s... after that the Air Force was smart enough to not let us play with firearms... until I made SSgt and was assigned to the sabotage alert team
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When I was in the Guard, (89-91) We had an Arma Lite AR-15 . It caught my eye because it had commercial, not "US government" markings.
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I went through USAF basic in Feb 1970... for "dry fire" we disassembled Armalite AR15s (Costa Mesa IIRC) that rattled pretty badly... for live fire I think we had Colt M16s... after that the Air Force was smart enough to not let us play with firearms... until I made SSgt and was assigned to the sabotage alert team
If you were at Lackland then you and I probably used the same weapons. Actually for classroom, you may have been using my live fire gun, as I was there in '68. My firing line TI used spent shells as ear plugs in those days. The only other time I got to shoot was when I was TDY somewhere and got bored. I wonder over to the base's shooting range and make friends with the trainers.
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Alf... I don't think anyone other than Security Police shot at my first duty station... Hakata, Japan... when I got to Clark (Philippines), every time the power went out during the night, the local Aboriginal Negritos would steal the copper ground cables on the FLR-9 antenna, and our DF capabilities were compromised... so the "sabotage alert team" was tasked with trying to stop the theft...trying to catch Negritos in tall elephant grass is not easy.... my simple solution was for my boss and I to meet with the Barrio Chieftan and pay a ransom for the dozen or so radials that I had to have up... marked them with an "X"... ransom was 1/2 kilo of rice per radial... I should have been a diplomat :)
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My one and only permanent duty was Charleston, but I spent half my life TDY. Clark was a good stop over. Never did I stay on base, always stayed in Clarkview. I loved how the hotel rooms had a lizzard for insect control.
At Charleston the firing range back stop was deemed unsafe, so anyone needing to qualify went to some other base. Needless to say they only paid for AP's to do that. I got plenty of range time at Kadena, Torrejon and Edwards, though.
At basic we did a "field mess" the same day we did the shooting range. So the next time I had KP I volunteered to work the field mess. I was a little late returning that day as I somehow made my way back to the firing range and got a little more time in. My TI, an old Army Air Corp guy, didn't know whether to be pissed or proud seeing as how everyone else qual'd on M16's only and I come in about sundown with an M14 and 1911 qual. Of course they were easy courses of fire back then.
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Alf... I broke my glasses two days before leaving for Lackland... went through basic looking through my forefinger curled over my thumb to make a small hole... to step down the field of view and allowed my eye to focus... I got the marksmanship ribbon mainly because my target was next to a large pole that I could see... shot the center of the blurr , but the AR sights did allow me a better focus when looking through them .. ;D
only TDY to Joint Sobe Processing Center, Tori Station, north of Kadena, Okinawa, and Ramsun Station, down the road from Udorn, RTAFB... made leave in Bangkok, Hong Kong, and Taipei after the end of the air war
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Alf... I don't think anyone other than Security Police shot at my first duty station... Hakata, Japan... when I got to Clark (Philippines), every time the power went out during the night, the local Aboriginal Negritos would steal the copper ground cables on the FLR-9 antenna, and our DF capabilities were compromised... so the "sabotage alert team" was tasked with trying to stop the theft...trying to catch Negritos in tall elephant grass is not easy.... my simple solution was for my boss and I to meet with the Barrio Chieftan and pay a ransom for the dozen or so radials that I had to have up... marked them with an "X"... ransom was 1/2 kilo of rice per radial... I should have been a diplomat :)
Before some snowflake stumbles in and has a conniption I'll point out that "Negrito's" isn't racist.
They are a tribal group like Moro's.
Although, in an era when "blackboard" and "niggardly" are considered racist there's no guarantees.
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And now back to our regularly scheduled thread.
Got the small grip in today. ADMISSION: In my excitement to get a small grip I order the wrong one. I got a grip for the .45 model which is different from the 9mm ones. I knew I had done this right afterwards, but my plan is to add a .45 P320 down the road, so I didn't cancel it. These are simple plastic castings, why are they so hard to find certain models? (small in 9mm size)
Here's my beef with Sig on there grips (besides the lack of availability).
There are few if any markings so that you can tell what you're looking at. Why can't they mark them plainly? Below are some pictures of the old grip, a Carry length, large diameter for 9mm, the newer .45 Compact grip.
The original looks like it was made in 2/17, while the .45 was made in 6/15. Maybe the .45s aren't selling so well? The replacement does say "Compact Small", but there's no indication whether it's for 9mm or .45. And while the new seems to have something resembling a part number, the original one has nada. Except of course for the "recyclable" symbol. Nice to know ;)
And just so you'll know the trigger assembly as well as the 9mm slide assembly fit and function fine on the .45 grip. The difference is in the magazine well. The .45 magazines are slightly larger in circumference. So while you could load and shoot single shot, you can't use the .45 grip with a 9mm mag. (or visa versa)
Still like the P320 though. These are just minor nits.
REPLACEMENT GRIP
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-dwrvntX/0/04000dc3/L/IMG_6892-L.jpg)
ORIGINAL GRIP
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-XP43CPJ/0/2f7fdb4f/L/IMG_6894-L.jpg)
INTERIOR w/ DATE STAMP - NEW ONE ON TOP
AND THE RECYCLE SYMBOL
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-rfCVCsr/0/b0bc94b0/L/IMG_6896-L.jpg)
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Sig hasn't notified me of the Small 9mm Carry grips, but a company called Selway did. They came in and feel a tad better than the Large. Of course, again, there's no labeling. Just "Carry" as you can see in the picture, a date stamp of 7/17 and a part number 38 30 215. Small nits, but you know, how difficult would it be to clearly stamp, at least inside, the size.
Love them despite the slightly different shade. Now to figure out how much I'd have to remove to reduce the diameter by another 1/4". Not a simple circle, but 4 arcs.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-q5ZFXjD/0/952463be/L/IMG_7229-L.jpg)
And yes, photobombing is my 6" 686 with its brand new Altamont grips. They look good, don't they? And I highly recommend Altamont. Well made product. Look at their, https://www.altamontco.com/accessories/ (https://www.altamontco.com/accessories/) engraved 1911 screws. And at the custom engraved 1911. Heck, even I could go for one of those.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-PVVpn42/0/4ff3b2b2/L/IMG_7224-L.jpg)
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Nice S&W, what type of wood is that? Super Walnut?
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Like the revolver grips.
I always go with plain Pachmyer, but those look real nice.
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Yes, super walnut. They certainly look better than the rubber Hogue's. And they grip just about identically. Altamonts only run ~$55 to $85ish depending on the wood and amount of engraving/etching.