The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: billt on June 04, 2017, 08:19:54 AM
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I love everything about this weapon..... Except the price. Almost $2K out the door seems rather steep. But 20 rounds of .308 firepower out of an 11" barreled "pistol" is really impressive. And the short barreled velocity loss isn't that bad.
http://rifleshooter.com/2016/02/308-winchester-7-62x51mm-nato-short-barrel-length-and-velocity-a-six-inch-308-bolt-gun/
That "brace" is like having a SBR without the $200.00 cost, paperwork, and waiting. I just wish I could justify the $2K cost for the weapon itself. Here it is being put through it's paces under unbelievable conditions. And it comes up without skipping a beat. The .308 version takes SR-25 / DPMS platform Mag-Pul 20 round .308 P-Mags.
http://www.galleryofguns.com/genie/Default.aspx?item=GAP51SB&mfg=IWI-US&mdlno=Galil+Ace+Pistol+With+Stabilizing+Brace
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr7q7kDCTZ0
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That brace sure looks like a stock. If you get an Ace pistol without it you save $100 and it's 1/2 pound lighter. That's the way I would probably go if I got one. $1,749 is still a lot to pay for what would be a toy for me. The 11.8" barrel is darned close to the 12" barrel you can get in pistol calibers for the Encore pistol but rifle calibers like the .308 in an Encore are in a 15" barrel. I don't think the 3.2" difference between that and the Ace is going to be a big deal. https://www.iwi.us/Galil/ACE-Pistol-GAP51.aspx
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if you want a .30 cal pistol you can control, why not just build a 300BLK on a 5.56 platform... and forget the blade/wave and just shoulder the bare buffer tube? ... just takes a new barrel
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if you want a .30 cal pistol you can control, why not just build a 300BLK on a 5.56 platform... and forget the blade/wave and just shoulder the bare buffer tube? ... just takes a new barrel
That will be my next build (funds permitting).
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One time I was talking to Tim LeGendre of LeMag Firearms back when he was making MAG-1 carbines and asked him about making a pistol version like the Iver Johnson Enforcer but in .45 Winchester magnum. He said he could do it but I never got around to ordering one. That would have been a handful. Now I'm wondering when someone will make an AR pistol in something like a .450 Bushmaster. I wouldn't want to shoot it but would like to see someone else do it. It would be pushing the AR to it's limits but it seems like someone would try it just because they could. .300 BLK can't be the upper limit for an AR pistol can it? With the .308 Galil pistol available I think that would be the way to go if you wanted rifle caliber performance from a pistol.
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if you want a .30 cal pistol you can control, why not just build a 300BLK on a 5.56 platform...
I don't want to get into another caliber. I've got tons of other guns in .308, and plenty of ammo around. And the .300 BLK has nothing on the .308.
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I don't want to get into another caliber. I've got tons of other guns in .308, and plenty of ammo around. And the .300 BLK has nothing on the .308.
All valid points, but I guess the "plenty of ammo" available would be a primary reason.
I see this as a "just because" gun.....and hey, I'm all about the "just because" factor, if one has the means. ;D ;D ;D
I will say comparing the .300 BLK to the .308 WIN is an apples to oranges thing. It all depends on intended usage. Each has a place (with some overlap). A rifle caliber pistol that is used for home defense vs a "playing at the range" gun would be my two ways of deciding (this is all just my opinion, so pass the salt shaker). Inside a house, a subsonic .300 is the better choice over a full-blown .308 round. Outside, the .308 has the advantage to a degree (we are still talking pistols) because you can have a power factor at whatever the maximum range would be for accuracy.
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FWIW, I've been told that with modern propellants a barrel length of about 58 calibers of barrel diameter is needed to completely burn the propellant...
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The first link I posted shows 2,139 FPS out of an 11" barrel with a 180 Gr. bullet in .308. (Winchester 180 Gr. Power Point load). That's some serious velocity and energy for such a short barrel. Multiplied by 20 rounds, and you've got serious power in a very small, good handling, controllable package. Albeit LOUD as hell.
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The first link I posted shows 2,139 FPS out of an 11" barrel with a 180 Gr. bullet in .308. (Winchester 180 Gr. Power Point load). That's some serious velocity and energy for such a short barrel. Multiplied by 20 rounds, and you've got serious power in a very small, good handling, controllable package. Albeit LOUD as hell.
And bright....probably bright too. :D
A good friend did some experimenting with a spare barrel in a .308 Remington bolt rifle. He started with a 24" target barrel and cut it down in 1/2" increments to test accuracy vs barrel length. Surprisingly, accuracy didn't diminish much, but without reducing the load (which was optimized for the 24" barrel length) there was a lot of powder being burned outside the barrel which equals flash.
Man, can you imagine shooting an 11" barreled full power .308 (un-suppressed) in a hallway or small room.
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The first link I posted shows 2,139 FPS out of an 11" barrel with a 180 Gr. bullet in .308. (Winchester 180 Gr. Power Point load). That's some serious velocity and energy for such a short barrel. Multiplied by 20 rounds, and you've got serious power in a very small, good handling, controllable package. Albeit LOUD as hell.
The Ace barrel is 11.8" so it would be about 2,200 FPS with a 180 grain bullet. That would give it approximately 1,934 foot-pounds of muzzle energy according to a ballistics calculator I found online. I couldn't find an exact figure for the .300 BLK but it looks like it's highest energy would be with a light bullet. It looks like it's 2/3 the muzzle energy of the .308 pistol, if that, and the bullet would only weigh about half as much as the .308 bullet. If anyone has a ballistic calculator on their computer they could get some more accurate numbers. It wouldn't surprise me if the .308 outclasses the .300 BLK even more than that.