The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: tt11758 on July 01, 2017, 10:51:17 AM
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Let me set the stage to explain the suckage.
One year ago this weekend I tore my left shoulder rotator cuff. I had surgery last September to repair it (if a doctor ever says you should have rotator cuff surgery, kick him in the nuts and leave). After about 6-weeks of recuperation I went to Physical Therapy for another 6 weeks. But the PT wasn't bringing things back the way it should have. So, in December I had a 2nd MRI which showed that the repair had had torn completely through the rotator cuff.
At that point, the orthopedic surgeon who did the repair referred me too his partner, the shoulder SPECIALIST. The new doctor tells me he could fix it again, but it's not going to hold. Instead he sent me back to PT to regain as much strength and range of motion as possible, and told me I should have a shoulder replacement i about 6 years (65 y/o). The PT has allowed me to raise my arm so that my hand is level with my shoulder. looks like that's about as good as it's gonna get. Sadly, not enough strength to support a handgun, and can only hold up the AR if I grip it in the front of the mag well. And, recoil is an issue, in that it sends the shock across my shoulders into the bad one, even when I shoot a handgun one-handed. As a result I bought a Walther PK380 that I can shoot one-handed, and still put the holes where I want them.
Then, in February, I tore the RIGHT rotator cuff. After consulting with the orthopedic surgeon, he suggested that surgery wasn't a great idea, since at my age the thinness of the tissue leads to a greater chance on the surgery not being successful. Great. Back to PT for range of motion and pain control on the right shoulder.
My plan for today was to go to the range for the first time since the 2nd injury, and see how much gun (recoil) I can tolerate. In preparation for that trip, I semi-sighted in the optic on the AR, using a bore laser at the length of the house. After manipulating the firearm through several sight and adjust cycles, my shoulders are now hurting like hell from just moving and manipulating the gun, without firing a damn round!!
So the suckage is this, it appears as though my days of shooting guns may be over. I find this highly disheartening.
I'll still teach the Firearms Safety and Carry Permit classes because, as the old saying goes, "them that can, do, and them that can't, teach."
Getting old sucks. I swapped golf for motorcycles about 20 years ago. When the knees went, I swapped the motorcycles for more shooting. Now it looks as if I'll have to be trading this hobby, that I love, for something else.....because my body is turning on me as I get older. Miss K's dad always used to say, "Son, old age ain't for wimps." He wasn't wrong.
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Sorry to hear this Tom, Hopefully things will get better for you,Plus there's always .22 rifles and pistols to play with so you won't have to give up guns completely.
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TT,
Just thinking out loud here. But how about shooting off a front and rear rest? Or a rear rest and a bipod? As far as recoil there is the Caldwell "Lead Sled" DFT. Yeah, It's not like shooting offhand, or in the other positions. But at least it will allow you to get some lead down range from a decent size gun without pain.
I've seen old guys put 2 boxes of .458 Win. Mags. downrange from a Model 70 Super Express with one of those Lead Sleds, and 2, 25 pound bags of shot cradled in it. All they had to do was slide the whole thing forward every few shots. I'm thinking about getting one, as I'm not getting any younger. And I like and have several big bores.
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What Bill said !
Switch to bench rest.
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Man I hate to hear that. It seems we all have bad stuff happening in our older age but it hit you particularly hard.
I think it is time for you to get a M2HB or a M37 or even MG34 on a tripod. Warning: Sticker shock.
http://www.tnwfirearms.com/category-s/1845.htm (http://www.tnwfirearms.com/category-s/1845.htm)
Saw a M2HB parts kit below 2k the other day. Needed a barrel and a semi-auto RH side plate.
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Getting old sucks.
Ditto on going more "bench rest"
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Not the cheapest. But if it solves your problem, and get's you out shooting without pain, it's worth every penny. They claim up to 95% recoil reduction. That will turn a .458 into a .223.
https://ads.midwayusa.com/product/452933/caldwell-lead-sled-dft-2-rifle-shooting-rest?cm_mmc=pf_ci_google-_-Shooting+-+Rests%2C+Bi-Pods+%26+Benches-_-Caldwell-_-452933&gclid=Cj0KEQjwkN3KBRCu2fWmy9LLqN4BEiQANP9-Wnii1s_LrSKOlXETjDGwDM2YvzHRaeJoRbGENYA1AckaAmUY8P8HAQ
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That does suck big time, TT.....like others have noted, change to benchrest style shooting. I have several friends that used to compete and they enjoyed it for the accuracy challenge.
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I too am sorry for your situation! I appreciate the info also since I have, at 70 been contemplating rotor cuff surgery. If there is any way to continue shooting....go for it! Whatever, however works.
God Bless,
Richard
PS: I agree, getting old sucks.....but it beats the H*** out of the alternative.
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Alternative! Did I hear someone say ALTERNATIVE to getting older? Where, where, where do I find the victim ;D
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Back on track..
Sorry to hear of your shoulder issues. Do what you can and adapt as necessary.
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I know how much bad shoulders can interfere with the simplest things in life. I prefer to sleep on my sides, right or left, it doesn't matter. But my danged shoulder wakes me with pain about 45 minutes into my doze. I roll over and get another 45 before THAT shoulder wakes me with pain. And so it goes all night long. If I sleep on my back, it's worse since Bunny only has a 30 minute tolerance factor for snoring.
Doc at the VA told me he would recommend a "reverse shoulder replacement" for both shoulders. Problem is, that limits your ability to lift anything--40 lbs from floor to waist; 20 lbs above the waist. That sucks. I have range bags that weigh more than that. Besides, I recently read that the reverse shoulder replacements are having a real problem with many requiring repeat surgery. No thanks.
Only thing I have found that helps is something Bunny came across in one of her "new age" forays into yoga, essential oils and other nonsense. She gave me a bottle of copaiba oil that I massage into my shoulders a few times a day. When I started, I could hardly comb my hair. After a couple of days, I had nearly full motility of both shoulders. It doesn't stink, burn or generally screw things up. It's not like any sort of liniment. It's just a lightweight oil harvested from some sort of Amazonian tree. There is a slight scent to it, but hardly noticeable. After about a week of 3 or 4 times daily, I reduced it to once or twice. Then, down to every other day. Now, I use it just when the shoulders start hurting. It hasn't "cured" anything. My shoulders are still a very weak link and if I have to take stuff down from a top shelf, I will probably get some help. But in daily life, the pain is mostly gone and it beats the crap out of surgery.
The stuff is not expensive. You can find it on Amazon. And, it may not work for you as well as it has for me. Still, it's a cheap fix if it does. Oh, and with the oil, I get a couple of hours of sleep on each side before I have to groggily roll over to the other side for another couple of hours sleep. And, I can still shoot my hand guns and my rifles. I did get rid of the .44 Mag Redhawk, though. Just too much kick. My carry gun is now a .357 Mag snubbie and I can shoot that all day. Same with the AR 15... No pain if I oil up the morning before I go shooting.
Good luck, Tom. Let me know if the stuff helps you.
Crusader Rabbit
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Crusader,
I'm going to try some of that Copaiba Oil. It's all over Amazon. The other day I changed oil and filters on both of my vehicles. The next day my neck and back were killing me from crawling around under the car, and craning my neck. I finally gave up and went and bought a creeper with nice cushioning and a foam headrest. But that didn't help with the pain. Changing oil is yet another way to gauge your age. I used to do it without batting an eye. Today it's a major undertaking. I still fight through it because I don't trust these kids at Jiffy Lube, or even the dealer. Too many horror stories.
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Billt, I'm in total agreement regarding oil changes. Throughout my adult life, I have made it a point to do my own oil changes for exactly the reasons you note: I don't trust the kids at Jiffy Lube.
For the past few years, I have had to forego that simple maintenance task because it takes me too long to recover and I really don't enjoy pain.
My solution is an independant oil change business not far from my home. The owner is a guy in his 50s who takes great pride in his work. I have watched him from the waiting room, and he attends to all the items I would if I could still do it--tire pressure, grease fittings, general observations, double-checking the drain plug and oil filter seal, brake fluid level, p/s fluid level, coolant level. Then he drops the vehicle back down and pumps in my choice of synthetic blend oil. He then starts the car and double checks for leaks, proper oil level.
I pay about $5 more for his service than I would at Jiffy, but I think it's worth it. You might be able to find something similar around Scottsdale.
I hope you get a measure of relief from the copaiba oil. If you aren't expecting instant miracles and are willing to rub it in several times a day for the first week or so, I think you may find it helps. Just make sure you get it from a reputable supplier.
Crusader Rabbit
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I know how much bad shoulders can interfere with the simplest things in life. I prefer to sleep on my sides, right or left, it doesn't matter. But my danged shoulder wakes me with pain about 45 minutes into my doze. I roll over and get another 45 before THAT shoulder wakes me with pain. And so it goes all night long. If I sleep on my back, it's worse since Bunny only has a 30 minute tolerance factor for snoring.
Doc at the VA told me he would recommend a "reverse shoulder replacement" for both shoulders. Problem is, that limits your ability to lift anything--40 lbs from floor to waist; 20 lbs above the waist. That sucks. I have range bags that weigh more than that. Besides, I recently read that the reverse shoulder replacements are having a real problem with many requiring repeat surgery. No thanks.
Only thing I have found that helps is something Bunny came across in one of her "new age" forays into yoga, essential oils and other nonsense. She gave me a bottle of copaiba oil that I massage into my shoulders a few times a day. When I started, I could hardly comb my hair. After a couple of days, I had nearly full motility of both shoulders. It doesn't stink, burn or generally screw things up. It's not like any sort of liniment. It's just a lightweight oil harvested from some sort of Amazonian tree. There is a slight scent to it, but hardly noticeable. After about a week of 3 or 4 times daily, I reduced it to once or twice. Then, down to every other day. Now, I use it just when the shoulders start hurting. It hasn't "cured" anything. My shoulders are still a very weak link and if I have to take stuff down from a top shelf, I will probably get some help. But in daily life, the pain is mostly gone and it beats the crap out of surgery.
The stuff is not expensive. You can find it on Amazon. And, it may not work for you as well as it has for me. Still, it's a cheap fix if it does. Oh, and with the oil, I get a couple of hours of sleep on each side before I have to groggily roll over to the other side for another couple of hours sleep. And, I can still shoot my hand guns and my rifles. I did get rid of the .44 Mag Redhawk, though. Just too much kick. My carry gun is now a .357 Mag snubbie and I can shoot that all day. Same with the AR 15... No pain if I oil up the morning before I go shooting.
Good luck, Tom. Let me know if the stuff helps you.
Crusader Rabbit
Thanks brother, I'll give that a try!! Gotta be better than ANY kind of surgery!! That being said, the latest orthopedic surgeon is the first surgeon I've ever dealt with who talked me OUT of surgery!!
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A quick update...................
Headed to the range on a toasty 4th of July afternoon to see how much recoil I can tolerate at this point.
Here's how it broke down:
Walther PK380 I think I can tolerate for AT LEAST two mags full
Carry-size 1911 in .45ACP. I can shoot it for self-defense IF the bastard will agree to die in 7 rounds or less. After that I think it might hurt me as much as it does him.
AR15 I can tolerate about 20 rounds.
Needless to say, the shotguns and big-bore rifles never even came out of the Tahoe.
I didn't sleep well that night, due to the sore/achy shoulders. Sadly, neither did Miss K (she said my "crappie-flopping" kept her awake.)
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That really does suck TT. At 55 I'm close to your age and have arthritis in both shoulders along with every vertebrae from head to toe and who knows where else. Luckily for me my experience living with arthritis for the last 35 years has been much different from yours. I didn't tear my rotator cuff but the doctor had to cut through it to do my shoulder surgery. For several years every time I moved my arm it was grinding the bones together. You could say the bastard was grinding me down.
The solution? Cut off a half inch or so of my collarbone. After 6 months of PT it was even better than the good shoulder. I believe I was in my late 40s when I had the surgery. That may have been the difference in having a successful outcome or not. If the surgeon says it's too late then I really don't know what else to say except to wish you the best of luck and let you know that I sympathize with you perhaps more than someone who's never had shoulder problems.
At this point you probably can't do much to make it better but can try not to make it worse. Like I keep telling my mom, if you're doing something that's causing you severe pain, quit doing it. If it's something you have to do, take a break and work on it some more later. Hang in there brother. I would try that Copaiba oil. It couldn't hurt and may actually help.