The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Rastus on July 16, 2017, 08:21:46 AM
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It may be the death of me but I'm wanting to get my wife a semi-auto for hunting. Maybe 243, better 25-06 or a 270 (who knows, maybe she'll want a 30-06). I really want to get an old Remington 742 for nostalgia's sake...at least my perception is they may have been the best overall.
The 742 was replaced by the 7400 which was replaced a decade ago by the 750. Now these model numbers don't mean spit to me because I don't have knowledge of issues and remedies throughout the years with these things....they were never on my radar. I know I do want to avoid something that had a propensity to fall apart after moderate use.
I don't have an issue with buying an old used gun that has maybe 20-150 rounds through if it was kept up with. I don't want a beater that was kept behind the truck seat. Nice wood matters more than a mechanical "hangnail" like some spring goes out after 5000 rounds so it needs to be special stainless steel, nickel coated thing-a-ma-bob to last the life of the gun. All I'm saying is that minor glitches are not such a big deal...major design flaws are. Over the next 20 years this thing may get 250 rounds through it so being "bulletproofed" for minor issues isn't mandatory.
I've not doubt someone here can educate me on the models and what works. Gunbroker can do the rest!
Thanks,
Ken
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No, No No! Don't Don't Don't! Back in 1985 I bought a brand new Remington 7400 in .30-06. And put a nice Leupold Vari-X III 3.5-10X 40 MM on it in Leupold mounts and rings. I cleaned and lubed it, took it out to the range with a couple of boxes of Winchester Super-X 180, grain Power Points to sight it in. Loading single rounds I got through about half a box and problems started. When I hit the bolt release the bolt wouldn't lock up.
This got worse until after about 20 rounds, it wouldn't lock up at all. I managed to get it sighted in, cased it up, and headed for home. When I got home I cleaned the chamber, (which wasn't that dirty), relubed it, and put it back in the safe. When I examined the fired brass, they all had what appeared to be a transfer mark of a galling from the chamber wall, on to the brass.
So my guess was the extractor was fighting trying to get the brass out of the gun, because of galling in the chamber. Most likely because the chamber was cut at the factory by a dull chamber reamer. I don't know if the extractor got bent or damaged as the problem worsened, because I lost interest in the gun after that. Not to mention I couldn't find a gunsmith who wanted to touch the thing. After I got a computer and got on the Internet a few years later, I started researching these guns, and soon found out they are extremely problem plagued in most every regard.
I almost bought the Browning BAR, and boy do I wish I had! They have very few issues compared to the 742 / 7400 Remington series of high power semi's. Yes, you'll pay more, but you won't be buying into what is almost a sure headache. You will find the few guys who have these guns that run well, are usually, "a box a year", deer hunters. Not guys who put high round counts through them.
One of these days when I get bored, I'm going to try to locate a good gunsmith, who can possibly get it up and running for me. But for now I've got so many semi auto rifles, AR's and M1-A's that run good, I just don't have the inclination to screw with the damn thing. Also, remember if your heart is set on buying one, most of them that are for sale are usually afflicted with some type of problem. So, "buyer beware" really applies to these things. If you really like the style of these rifles, (and they are a nice looking rifle), go with the 7600 Pump Action. From what I've read, they run much better, and you still have the same sleek lines. Without all of the operational issues, that follow these things around like a sailor on shore leave following a hot hooker.
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The BAR could be an option because it dresses up nice....the pump actions won't be because I know my wife won't want that. A box a year is probably all this will ever do...and maybe less than that. We have the AR's, FAL's, Rockrivers and such we use for training and fun (even an M2HB semi).
This is the kind of info I'm looking for on the Remington's though. I thought they had issues. Did the 750's clean up the 742 and 7400's issues?
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I own a 750, w/synthetic stock, in 30.06. No problems with it yet. Occasionally, you will get a magazine that is bad, but a very minor tweak with a pair of pliers and all is good.
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From everything I have read on these rifles, it all comes down to if you're lucky enough to, "get a good one", so to speak. Some are, but most are not. I don't want to send the gun back to Remington, because I'll have to remove the scope and mounts. So if and when I get it looked at, I would hope I can find a good local gunsmith who would work on it without removing anything. What I may do is at least have the chamber checked with a good bore scope. These things are cheap enough now, so that most gunsmiths have them. At least then I'll know if I'm looking at a new barrel or not.
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first of all, I'm not a hunter...and I'm more function over beauty... but wouldn't an AR platform, available with excellent aftermarket triggers, stabilizing pistol grip, thin MLOK full float fore end... make a better choice... the Picatinny rail has to be a better optics mount than a set of rings screwed on with #8 cap screws... A1 stock is a little heavier but helps balance
available in multiple calibers ... 6.5s to WSM...
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first of all, I'm not a hunter...and I'm more function over beauty... but wouldn't an AR platform, available with excellent aftermarket triggers, stabilizing pistol grip, thin MLOK full float fore end... make a better choice.
I never thought I would say this, because I'm more of a traditional "gun guy". But after buying and shooting my DPMS AP-4 .308 AR platform carbine, there is no way I would choose any of the conventional semi auto "hunting rifles" over it for field use.
The only exception might be the Browning BAR in .300 Win. Mag. But even that is doubtful because both NEMO Arms, and now POF make .300 Win. Mag. AR platform rifles. Albeit they're expensive, ($5,500.00 for the NEMO, and $3,500.00 for the POF). But they're like nothing else on the market. I'm not saying I wouldn't buy a all steel Browning Safari BAR, "just to have". But I can't see any reason for choosing it over the AR platform. My DPMS is accurate, eats anything and everything I feed it, and doesn't skip a beat. Not to mention how easy the AR platform is to break down, clean and lube after extensive shooting. It's a piece of cake compared to the Browning and others.
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I would never choose a "civilian" gun over a military design.
Civilian guns are made to look pretty a lot and be shot rarely while for anything other than punching they bore they are expected to be sent to a shop for service and or repair.
Military models are designed to be used by unskilled operators,disassembled with out tools, repaired or modified by minimally trained operators , be shot 10,000+ rounds, and used in any weather and conditions.
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I would never choose a "civilian" gun over a military design.
Civilian guns are made to look pretty a lot and be shot rarely while for anything other than punching they bore they are expected to be sent to a shop for service and or repair.
Military models are designed to be used by unskilled operators,disassembled with out tools, repaired or modified by minimally trained operators , be shot 10,000+ rounds, and used in any weather and conditions.
Very true.
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My dad had an old wood stocked 740 in 30.06. Zero issues with that one also. Nothing wrong with them.
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My wife has her father's old 742 Woodsmaster in .243 Win. I'm not a huge fan of semi-auto hunting rifles (they have a place, yes) but I do like this rifle. She likes it because of the low recoil, which doesn't aggravate an old shoulder injury.
In the twelve years she's had it she has felled a pile of whitetails and plenty of range time with nary an issue.
(I've told the story on here after the occurrence: she's even killed two with one shot with it, nothing to do with the gun itself...just blind luck.... but interesting none the less).
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It tends to be a little more towards the tactical "look", but I like and bought the FN FNAR. It's based on the BAR hunting rifle (not the battle rifle). Nice smooth operating .308.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/Gun-General/i-3ddC2q3/0/655e8960/L/IMG_5920-L.jpg)
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My dad had an old wood stocked 740 in 30.06. Zero issues with that one also. Nothing wrong with them.
My dad also had a .30-06 Model 740 and had no issues with it that I know of. He took a lot of deer with it over the years. It had a very strong family resemblance to his Model 58 20 gauge. He gave the 740 to my older brother who also hasn't had any issues with it that I'm aware of, but we haven't discussed it in a long time. I think they were all made with .30-06 length actions so I would look for a .280 Remington, .270 Winchester, or .30-06 for best performance . I would only get a .308 for more easily available ammo. They weren't made to shoot tens of thousands of rounds like military rifles but no one uses them that way. They were made to hunt with and they do their job well. In blued steel and real walnut they look better than most any military rifle. If you want higher capacity mags for it, 10 round aftermarket mags have been available for decades.
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I was thinking .243 for the wife. Thanks for all of the feedback guys.
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I was thinking .243 for the wife. Thanks for all of the feedback guys.
That's a good choice too since it will still kill deer and do it with less recoil. But the '06 kills 'em deader. ;D
I personally don't have anything I would really consider a "deer rifle" but my .44 Magnum Trapper would do for the short ranges typical to many eastern states. I always thought the .280 Remington was a great caliber. You get a .30-06 sized cartridge that uses 7mm bullets, dozens of which are available to hand-loaders. But the .007" smaller diameter .270 Winchester was around decades earlier and had nearly identical ballistics. It was all about timing.
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I'm a big proponent for the 270 and hunting anything up to elk with it. Elk are iffy making shot placement more important...but partition bullets will do the job on them.
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If .256 is enough for Elephant, and several hunters have used it, then .270should do for the US.
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Maybe we should use that for an intermediate caliber? Jumping threads, of course.
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We already do. .270 is the 6.5 - 6.8 range.
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Kind of long on that modified 30-06 case.
Not that I've been keeping up...but what else is out there in .270 that keeps up with the .270 Winchester performance wise. Most of what I've seen is less in velocity.
A short case that has some oomph to it without using 3 pounds of powder (OK, over exaggeration there) to best the 270 Winchester by 300-500 FPS in a 130 grain bullet would be nice.
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The .270 WSM is supposed to be close to the .270 Weatherby Magnum in power but it won't fit in a Remington semi-auto rifle. I don't think there are any other .270 factory calibers besides the 3 we already mentioned and the 6.8 Remington SPC.
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I'm partial to 7mm-08, but don't know a semi auto chambered for it. A .300 blackout AR would be poor, but 6.8 SPC or one of the 'new hotness' creedmoor calibers, 6.5 or the new one (7mm?) would be a good choice for a light weight, low recoiling AR.
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I'm partial to 7mm-08, but don't know a semi auto chambered for it.
Most of the barrel makers have AR-10 ones in all the -08 variants, including 7mm-08.
As an example, https://craddockprecision.com/ar10-barrels/
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Most of the barrel makers have AR-10 ones in all the -08 variants, including 7mm-08.
As an example, https://craddockprecision.com/ar10-barrels/
They sell 6mm Creedmoor barrels at that place. IMO that and the .260 Remington would be great choices for an AR-10. Less recoil than a .308 and better for hunting deer sized game than a .243. The 6mm Creedmoor is supposed to be really accurate too. But .308 ammo will be easier to find.
In an AR-15 sized rifle Remington sells rifles chambered in .30 Remington AR. It's based on a necked down .450 Bushmaster. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.30_Remington_AR
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I use the .260 Remington as a deer hunting round, in a 700 CDL, tho, not semi-auto. The 6.5 mm range is perfect for deer hunting IMO.
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Well, all in all this one is for my wife. I may be settling on the 6MM Remington and there is a fairly nice one on Gunbroker right now. Performance comparison below:
.243 Winchester 22” bl 24”bl
FL Federal 85gr TSX 3130 3200
FL Federal 100gr SP 2890 2960
HL 85gr 3200 3270
HL 95gr 3050 3120
HL 100gr 3000 3070
6mm Remington
FL Federal 85gr TSX 3270 3350
FL Federal 100gr SP 3020 3100
HL 85gr 3300 3370
HL 95gr 3100 3170
HL 100gr 3050 3120
.240 Weatherby. 6mm-06 Improved
FL/HL 100gr SP 3260 3330
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I've made a couple of unsuccessful bids for the 6MM. I may have a better chance of being successful after hunting season...I'm too cheap to pay the going rates right now.