The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: billt on August 29, 2017, 09:58:20 AM
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Man what a mess! I used to travel down there quite frequently back in the late 70's and early 80's when my dad was alive and living down there. Almost considered moving down there back then. Damn glad I didn't. It started to go downhill when a lot of the displaced trash from Katrina settled there. The crime rate went through the roof.
Then as time moved on they started all of this, "Sanctuary City" crap, and it just continued to get worse. Now this. I doubt it will ever recover. They are saying less than 50% of the homeowners there have flood insurance. Most will simply walk away. Real estate values will plummet to a fraction of what they were. This will leave people under water financially, as well as literally. A dying city, much like New Orleans. They said the population of New Orleans dropped by 50% after Katrina. Some have come back and rebuilt, but most have just moved on. I think Houston will suffer the same fate. There are just too many places to live and work where you don't have to put up with crap like that.
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Couldn't agree with you more, Bill. The canary in the coal mine was the displaced multitudes from New Orleans after Katrina and the subsequent spiking crime rate. That was on top of the economic gut punch Houston took from the petroleum industry essentially pulling out. That one-two punch was a lot to absorb.
In the early '80s I represented a top satellite communications company selling nearly instantaneous data transfer and analysis technology to the offshore industry. We did pretty well initially, and then the bottom fell out of the oil market. They had only started to recover when Katrina hit and the NO riffraff took up residence. Crime went through the roof and anybody who could moved to one of the outlying areas like Rosenberg.
Now, thousands are being displaced by Harvey and the poorly planned infrastructure so abundant in Houston. The fact that it's a city without any sort of zoning restrictions means that developers could buy cheap land in the immediate flood plane, and build cheap but good looking houses on it, then sell those houses to people who didn't know enough not to buy on the low side of a dam.
The people you mentioned without flood insurance in Houston are most likely the same ones who fled New Orleans because they had no flood insurance there, either. They couldn't rebuild in NO, so they stayed in Houston.
Now, those same people (or their kids and grand kids) are on the move again and they just might be headed to Phoenix.
I think you've hit the nail on the head when you say Houston may never recover from this. This may be the death knell for Sam's town. I really hope it isn't because I have family in AZ and I still like 'em, some.
Crusader Rabbit
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Reply to me from a friend in Houston
"We are doing ok. Houston is almost destroyed. It will take years to get back where it was. Just heard on local news family of 6 drowned. Boat overturned. Kids and family are ok so far. Not much sleep watching the water rise. Maybe today."
Not much good coming out of Houston except the the stories of folks going all out to help one another....and that is marred by the incidents of looting and violence.
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<snip>The fact that it's a city without any sort of zoning restrictions means that developers could buy cheap land in the immediate flood plane, and build cheap but good looking houses on it, then sell those houses to people who didn't know enough not to buy on the low side of a dam.<snip>
Zoning is a about control, in part that favored contractors and builders have their "just deserved" monopoly.
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This is the location of our Houston distribution center:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Amigos+food/@29.8207702,-95.3961283,13.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x4d3a67de88ea9b2!8m2!3d29.829325!4d-95.3911079 (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Amigos+food/@29.8207702,-95.3961283,13.5z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x0:0x4d3a67de88ea9b2!8m2!3d29.829325!4d-95.3911079)
I don't know about anything else in Houston except for the media hype, but Amigos was up and running Monday, and of the office staff, only one had damage from flooding. Drivers, dock workers, and warehouse staff were working with minimal, no more than normal, absenteeism. Besides their being able to work, their customer base must be operating fairly well, or there wouldn't be meat to move.
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Zoning is a about control, in part that favored contractors and builders have their "just deserved" monopoly.
From what I've been reading, there are a lot of people who are blaming much of this on over expansion in low lying areas. Proper drainage is non existent in many places. Some areas have several inches of water to contend with. While others are practically up to the roof line. And Houston is as flat as a board. 30 years ago where excess storm water would harmlessly run off, today backs up and floods homes and businesses that didn't exist before.
The National Flood Insurance Program, (which is currently over $24 BILLION in the hole), has stated that well over 50% of reoccurring flood damage in the country is in the Houston area. And let's face it, when you have 3, "500 year floods" in just 3 years, it makes you wonder why? People keep collecting settlements for flood damage on the same homes over and over. The payouts are ridiculous. They told of one home owner who has received over $800,000.00 in payout claims, on a house that is only worth $225,000.00.
It would be cheaper for the Federal Government to simply bulldoze those houses, and build the people new one's on higher ground. Bad zoning, coupled with poor storm water infrastructure, can make something like this much worse. It appears this time it really has. People are going to be asking a lot of questions after this mess is finally cleaned up..... If it ever is. Much of it could end up like the Lower Ninth Ward in New Orleans. Nothing but weeds, driveway's, and slabs where homes once existed.
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And Houston is as flat as a board. 30 years ago where excess storm water would harmlessly run off.
The flatness combined with the clay soil which does not absorb water very rapidly has always made Houston prone to flooding.
I lived there in '82-'83. Actually in Missouri City off the SW side of Houston, below Sugarland.
'83 was Hurricane Alicia. Worst at the time and I think the first to top $1billion in damages. They retired the name. We had a cedar shake roof and lost quite a few shingles. The rain totals were only 10-12" and we had water in the street though none made it to the house.
With 50"+ the flooding is just inevitable there.
I know there is a lot of debate about evacuation orders, but for NE Ft Bend County and the core of Houston down to the Gulf it should have been mandatory.
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And part of Houston is a bowl from withdrawing fresh water from the fresh aquifer.
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Now it appears Port Arthur and Beaumont are even worse. With almost 100% of the homes under water.
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I lived there in '82-'83. Actually in Missouri City off the SW side of Houston, below Sugarland.
Were you living there when the TV tower collapsed?
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Yes I was. Sad for those workers. The tower was on the east side of our subdivision, Quail Valley (a very big development). I could see it from my house, though it was a mile away.
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I have 4 insurance companies blowing up my phone for me to go down and be an adjuster. ( I am already emergency contractor/ adjuster for 3 of them) the offers keep getting better. still not close to what I am making here. the best yet was about 2k a day, its just not enough.
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I wish I was in a position to turn down 2K a day, but it would be more work than I wanted to do.
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I also don't think I would be paid, its from a small company based in texas, 5 will get you 10 they will file bk. When they get your number, by going too the emergency contacts of your competitors, something is not right.
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I also don't think I would be paid, its from a small company based in texas, 5 will get you 10 they will file bk. When they get your number, by going too the emergency contacts of your competitors, something is not right.
They are saying the insurance scammers are already starting their crap. I don't see how you can trust anyone in that type of situation. Just look at the amount of building materials that are going to be required. It's monumental. Drywall, flooring and carpet, cabinets and vanities. Appliances will all be ruined, and will require replacement. There are going to be shortages of EVERYTHING for months.
TAB, how long can a house sit in stagnant water until it degrades enough to have to be torn down?
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In a normal situation it would depend on the soil and the foundation, as you could dry out the wood and fasteners. InHouston sthey all will have too go.
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Just look at the amount of building materials that are going to be required. It's monumental. Drywall, flooring and carpet, cabinets and vanities. Appliances will all be ruined, and will require replacement. There are going to be shortages of EVERYTHING for months.
Don't mean to be happy about other people's misery, but investing in building material providers would be a good thing right now.
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In a normal situation it would depend on the soil and the foundation, as you could dry out the wood and fasteners. In Houston they all will have to go.
That will amount to an unbelievable disaster. It really makes you wonder how many will actually attempt rebuilding, or just take the money and run? If you do have flood insurance, and your home needs to be torn down and rebuilt, why do it there? Yeah, you'll be out the cost of the lot. But something tells me real estate land prices aren't going to be worth much around that area for a long time to come.
I bet if you wanted to buy a lot in the old Lower 9th Ward in New Orleans, they would practically give it to you. Assuming there are even utilities available there any more. There are a lot of areas in Houston that will now have much the same fate. Especially all of these developed areas that were heavily flooded, that were all located downstream from the release points of these big reservoirs. They are saying Barker and Addicks reservoirs could take over 2 months to drain. Those houses flooded by the release of all that water, will all be under contaminated, stagnant water for months to come. And most will have no chance to be rebuilt. And that's a LOT of homes. It's the same, or even worse for Beaumont and Port Arthur.
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Another thing is even if you do choose to rebuild. You are going to wait months, and end up paying top dollar for what amounts to substandard work. These guys are going to cash in for as much, and as fast as they can. And good luck trying to get any of them to come back if something wasn't done correctly. You'll be seeing every building inspector in Houston driving a new truck, pulling a nice $75K Bass Boat behind it.
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I'm struck by the contrast of the federal response to the Houston area floods versus the floods in Louisiana a year ago. In Louisiana 150,000 homes were flooded, most without flood insurance from a once in a thousand year weather event. There was some press on the event...most of which was focused on trying to slime Trump when he went down to see what was going on during the campaign.
With Trump, there is a machine working to help ALL OF THE PEOPLE around Houston. The "dumb ass redneck conservatives" from Louisiana didn't get that treatment from Obama. To be sure, there was federal disaster help AFTER THE FACT. As far as having a federal presence initially to help people...not so much.
I think the people in Houston need to be helped right now. However, it sure would be nice if the bigoted news media would point out how white conservatives were left to fend for themselves and to save their own hides by the leftist Obama administration just a year ago.
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.......However, it sure would be nice if the bigoted news media would point out how white conservatives were left to fend for themselves and to save their own hides by the leftist Obama administration just a year ago.
Don't forget the fact it took Obama 2 WEEKS after the fact to first arrive at the site of the BP oil spill. The liberal Obama ass kissing media never mentioned that fact. But they wasted zero time jumping right in to criticize Melania's shoes. The liberals always manage to walk around with their minds in another room.
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But they wasted zero time jumping right in to criticize Melania's shoes.
Shoes? Never noticed.
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I'm struck by the contrast of the federal response to the Houston area floods versus the floods in Louisiana a year ago. In Louisiana 150,000 homes were flooded, most without flood insurance from a once in a thousand year weather event. There was some press on the event...most of which was focused on trying to slime Trump when he went down to see what was going on during the campaign.
With Trump, there is a machine working to help ALL OF THE PEOPLE around Houston. The "dumb ass redneck conservatives" from Louisiana didn't get that treatment from Obama. To be sure, there was federal disaster help AFTER THE FACT. As far as having a federal presence initially to help people...not so much.
I think the people in Houston need to be helped right now. However, it sure would be nice if the bigoted news media would point out how white conservatives were left to fend for themselves and to save their own hides by the leftist Obama administration just a year ago.
Not only is the government working smoothly, but look what the worthless conservatives are doing to help themselves and their neighbors. This is what was envisioned by Pres. Reagan and Pres. GHWB when they started us down the road to lower taxes with the intent we would help ourselves, our families, and our neighbors (We know better how to spend our money than the government does).
Things must be settling down in Houston, because last night and this morning I saw a return to talk about Russia, shorty and his bottle rockets, and outrage that Pres. DJT want's to tie the debt ceiling to a $billion+ relief package.
Did anyone notice how quickly the bashing slowed and refocused when State and Local officials contradicted the MSM on the Pres's visit and concern for the region?
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I noticed. Government can never mobilize enough to pull people's "fat from the fire". You'd have to build a city as large or nearly as large as the one that needs help to have enough people to do the job that local volunteers do. People who do not think believe the government needs to have all the resources necessary for anything and within 24 hours....that's just silly and ignorant.
For instance, a city of 500,000 needs what....say 100,000 responders to act and supply chain in a disaster. How do you get 100,000 there in 24-48 hours...well heck, they need to live in easy driving distance so within 250-300 miles. So for a city of 500,000 you need to build a city for 100,000 paid government responders so with their families you are up to 400,000 and then support and supply for the responders and their families add another 100-200 thousand.
So the relief for a city takes something the size of that city within 250-300 miles...there goes the remaining half of your paycheck...