The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on September 09, 2008, 03:18:12 AM

Title: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: TAB on September 09, 2008, 03:18:12 AM: Well its time for a new scope for the old weatherby 257 mag ( Built some time in the 50s off a muaser action, it was a gift from a client that was a big time african game hunter. No its not for sale, it never will be).

I was looking for some feed back about diffrent reticles people have. Mil dop, duplex( and the many varations on that theme) and illuminated versions...

The rifle will mainly be used for killing stuff. Both med sized and varments.( at reasonable ranges) I'm looking at 3x9 or 4x12, something in that range.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Big Frank on September 09, 2008, 05:19:32 AM: Unless you already know how to use a mil-dot or are ready to learn it all, don't get one. I don't think you should get one for animals that run around much either. If they stand still long enough you can use a mil-dot to estimate the range and compensate for wind drift if you remember how. I prefer duplex reticles for most things.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: MikeBjerum on September 09, 2008, 07:40:37 AM: I like a simple clean duplex. I have some mildot variations, but I find that a clean crosshair brings less distraction to the party.

In my case, the less distraction and reason to think the better. Know your range, your hold over or under, put the crosshair on target and squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 09, 2008, 11:43:10 AM: As a machine operator running high volume production of parts I've found that a loading, machining, inspection process that requires less thought generates less scrap, simpler is better. I would expect that to transfer to scopes as it does to so many other things, like rifle actions, for some reason I ALWAYS forget to work the bolt before trying to fire a second shot on bolt actions ;D If my life ever depends on a PUMP shot gun please send flowers ;D
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: pioneer on September 09, 2008, 12:10:48 PM: Mil dots are handy for military snipers taking 1000 yard + shots, but for most of us mere mortals, simple cross hair reticles are the easiest to use and master. I prefer duplex style, simply because they are easier to see with my aging eyes, and simple to use. If I have to do math to take a shot, I won't take the shot. :)

A 3-9, or 4-12 variable power scope will suit most N. American hunting needs. I prefer to leave mine on the lower setting, and if the shot turns out to be a long one, I can dial up a higher magnification.

Different folks recommend different ways to zero scopes. Some can get real complicated, but I prefer the KISS principle. Keep It Simple Stupid.

(http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb294/pioneer461/Gun%20Logos/anniversary-coin.gif)
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: HAWKFISH on September 09, 2008, 12:49:15 PM: Well, I would get whichever reticle I felt more comfortable with. These days they are some good scopes out there. Since it is going on a magnum too.. I would recommend the 4-12 scope. Yes, 3-9 will work for most anything..but for just a little more.. you can get approximately 25-30% more power for about the same price.. I feel like you can get more for your money.. I mean even on the lower power there is not much difference in 3 or 4 power, but there is somewhat of a more noticeable difference on 9 vs. 12 or even 16 on a 4-16. I put a Nikon Monarch (2.5-10x42) on my 7MM Magnum and it works great. But, I often kick myself when I think that I could have got a 12 or 16 power for like $40-$50 bucks more :-[. It would certainly help at 150 yrd-200 yrd shots. 3-9 will work too..but even target shooting at the range I wish I had got little more power when trying to see what I hit after shooting my targets. Most importantly though.. try to get the best quality scope that you budget will allow.. then no matter what it will be clear and hold up.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: kmitch200 on September 09, 2008, 02:27:39 PM: Quote from: TAB on September 09, 2008, 03:18:12 AM
I was looking for some feed back about diffrent reticles people have.
The rifle will mainly be used for killing stuff. Both med sized and varments.( at reasonable ranges)

For hunting, IMHO, mildots are useless.
Illuminating reticles are nice, especially in the woods around sundown. This might infringe on your price point.
For killing stuff at reasonable ranges, a quality 3x9, 4x12, 4x14 plain duplex will do just fine.

If you have a choice, get target knobs. With a ballistic chart and a rangefinder, you're good to go if shooting at longer ranges is your thing.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: m25operator on September 09, 2008, 03:22:58 PM: I like duplexes alot, but the european style with real heavy bars on the outside, much easier to pick up in low light, but I like the german #3 reticle, same as a duplex but no upper verticle heavy bar, better viewing area. I do like illuminated reticles but they are not a deal breaker at all, and I will spend more for etched glass reticles, regardless of type.

Reticles and scopes are all about how small or large the target, and how far away.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 09, 2008, 03:37:50 PM: I have a Bushnell 3x9 Dusk to Dawn with a duplex on my Savage 30-06.

Works fine. Paid about 90 for it.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: DesertMarine on September 09, 2008, 09:33:03 PM: So much good information given that I cannot add too much more. I'll repeat one point and that is get the best quality scope that you can afford. I see too many people get a good rifle and put a cheap scope on it, doesn't make sense unless that is all you can afford.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Big Frank on September 11, 2008, 02:05:12 AM: I was thinking about that last night. I'd rather have a $400 rifle with a $400 scope than an $800 rifle with a $40 scope.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: DesertMarine on September 12, 2008, 05:42:19 PM: Quote from: jumbofrank on September 11, 2008, 02:05:12 AM
I was thinking about that last night. I'd rather have a $400 rifle with a $400 scope than an $800 rifle with a $40 scope.

I am trying out a 10/22 for rimfire silhouette matches on which I mounted a Leupold 6.5X20 EFR scope. Guys at the range were making fun of putting a $700 scope on a $200 rifle. Got some surprising results from it. Don't want to put a lot of money into the 10/22, would like a Winchester 52 or old Remington 521/40X or something like that. Will probably wind up with a CZ 453 Varmit and the Leupold 6.5X20.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 12, 2008, 06:09:29 PM: DM

6x20 on a 10-22!!!!! Ya gots some thunkin ta do there, son. Ya gots it all backerds! ;D

A course if'n it were on a 22-250 err sumpin' like that there, then it'd make sense on a '22'. Ya unnerstand now, youngin?

(to every one else...DM is from the back country so you have to speak his dialect to make it clear for him. ;) )
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: m25operator on September 12, 2008, 07:51:13 PM: Haz, as I mentioned, it's all about the size of the target and how far away. ;)

.22rf rifle silhouette is one of the most challenging matches there is. The chickens at 40 meters, are about the size of a half dollar,, the pigs at 50 meters are like shooting at a 2x4 from the end, the turkeys at 75 meters, ( the hardest ) are like shooting a tennis ball, and then the rams at 100 meters are like shooting at someones hand stuck out for a handshake. Most scopes reticles will subtend bigger than the target, and a .22 riflescopes parallax is usually set for 75 yards. You need a good scope with parallax adjustment down to 50 yards at least, with excellent adjustment capability, with a .22rf, you do have to adjust from 40 to 100 meters. In a rifle the .22rf drops 7" from 50 to 100 meters. Not to mention, the wind is a huge factor in rimfire. Plus you need to see the target, a 3x9 won't get you there, maybe with a very fine cross hair reticle, but it will make it hard.

Another subject, .22rf in the field, you are usually shooting at small animals, squirrels, rabbits and such, a higher magnification makes sense, at least a 3x9.

Now to the Chevy team challenge, 1 target at 100 meters is approx. 2 1/2" tall and 1" wide, you gonna hit that with something less than 10 power???
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 12, 2008, 08:21:15 PM: I shoot 100 yards with my old Springfield 84C- and a 3x9 Bushnell all the time. Yes, I honestly think I could hit a 2.5 x 1 inch target (depending on wind) at 100 yards with it quite readily.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: m25operator on September 12, 2008, 08:37:12 PM: Haz I love ya, but mark a diamond 2 1/2 tall and 1" wide, you won't be able to see it. Your reticle will cover it up.

I'm all for low cost products, but that will not get it done.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 12, 2008, 08:45:58 PM: Quote from: m25operator on September 12, 2008, 08:37:12 PM
Haz I love ya, but mark a diamond 2 1/2 tall and 1" wide, you won't be able to see it. Your reticle will cover it up.

I'm all for low cost products, but that will not get it done.

Yer on, buddy! It should be fun to try!
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 12, 2008, 09:25:13 PM: Haz, This is the dialect DM understands best.

(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/tombogn03884/ermey.jpg)
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 12, 2008, 09:31:48 PM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on September 12, 2008, 09:25:13 PM
Haz, This is the dialect DM understands best.

(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll282/tombogn03884/ermey.jpg)

Too bad I don't have any of my hats any more.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: DesertMarine on September 13, 2008, 01:58:15 PM: Hell Hazcat, man has to do what he has to do. Obivious you are not a Jarhead, the Gunny is wearing a cover or a Smoky, not a hat. On the ground and give me 20.

Try getting a 1" group at 70 yds with a stock .22 and a low power, low cost scope. Git er done Son.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 13, 2008, 07:58:40 PM: Jarhead? Nope. 54E3X, did the DS thing at Ft McClellan AL for MPs. We always had a platoon of Jirines for the AIT portion. Always had to teach them to march. ;)
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Big Frank on September 14, 2008, 03:22:43 AM: One of the most embarrasing moments ever in the army was in AIT. One instructor was a marine gunny sergeant. He had the marines do a file from the left, column left, into the building in a neat orderly fashoin. Then he said, army, GET IN THERE! It looked like a big stupid mob running in. :-[
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 14, 2008, 12:46:54 PM: Quote from: jumbofrank on September 14, 2008, 03:22:43 AM
One of the most embarrasing moments ever in the army was in AIT. One instructor was a marine gunny sergeant. He had the marines do a file from the left, column left, into the building in a neat orderly fashoin. Then he said, army, GET IN THERE! It looked like a big stupid mob running in. :-[

;D
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: DesertMarine on September 14, 2008, 05:07:33 PM: Quote from: Hazcat on September 13, 2008, 07:58:40 PM
Jarhead? Nope. 54E3X, did the DS thing at Ft McClellan AL for MPs. We always had a platoon of Jirines for the AIT portion. Always had to teach them to march. ;)

What the hell is a 54E3X? Jirines is spelled Gyrenes. Yeah right, have seen you doggies march.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 14, 2008, 07:05:18 PM: Quote from: DesertMarine on September 14, 2008, 05:07:33 PM
What the hell is a 54E3X? Jirines is spelled Gyrenes. Yeah right, have seen you doggies march.

Staw foot Hay foot ;D
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 15, 2008, 01:13:44 PM: Quote from: DesertMarine on September 14, 2008, 05:07:33 PM
What the hell is a 54E3X? Jirines is spelled Gyrenes. Yeah right, have seen you doggies march.

54E - Nuclear, Bio, Chem warfare, 3 - E-6, X - Drill Sergeant. And Gyrines march like a high school band with those little bitty steps.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: tombogan03884 on September 16, 2008, 01:04:08 AM: Quote from: Hazcat on September 15, 2008, 01:13:44 PM
54E - Nuclear, Bio, Chem warfare, 3 - E-6, X - Drill Sergeant. And Gyrines march like a high school band with those little bitty steps.

Maybe, but the Army just sort of ambles along.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 16, 2008, 06:08:33 AM: Quote from: tombogan03884 on September 16, 2008, 01:04:08 AM
Maybe, but the Army just sort of ambles along.

Yeah, but we do it with style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfxcq77FkdE

;D
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Big Frank on September 16, 2008, 06:21:59 AM: Gee Haz, that sure makes a fellow proud to be a soldier. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0L_rD7CCe4
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: shooter32 on September 16, 2008, 09:19:26 AM: Quote from: Hazcat on September 16, 2008, 06:08:33 AM
Yeah, but we do it with style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfxcq77FkdE

;D

Was that Haz "Bill" cat leading?
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 16, 2008, 10:22:36 AM: ;D
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: DesertMarine on September 16, 2008, 11:16:14 AM: Quote from: Hazcat on September 16, 2008, 06:08:33 AM
Yeah, but we do it with style!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mfxcq77FkdE

;D

HazCat, can you imagine Gen. Petreaus in the reviewing stand with something like that going on. Incidently, good movie.

When Marines march it is 30" steps, cover down front to rear, dress right, lean back and strut. If not, got a DI's boot on your rear end, literally, no please do it, ok.

I went to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. The soldiers from the Old Guard are awesome.
Title: Re: Scope question. About reticles
Post by: Hazcat on September 16, 2008, 11:26:23 AM: Yeah, I knew a couple of them when I was stationed at Ft Belvoir. VERY dedicated soldiers.