The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: Dirty Bob on August 04, 2020, 09:01:46 PM
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Michael's recent podcast (https://www.michaelbane.tv/the-big-steel-box-conundrum/45894/) was along the lines of what I've been thinking. Stay in the big steel box as long as possible. Like Chef said in Apocalypse Now, "Never get out of the boat."
Priority one is awareness/avoidance. I memorize street maps, so I hope to go around any impending roadblock or riot before I reach it, but we've seen video of people turning a corner and finding themselves in deep stuff, with "peaceful protestors" pounding on the glass and trying to open the doors.
Car damage I can get fixed. Violent attackers breaking windows or approaching with firearms, firebombs or the IEDs they've been seeing in Portland is another situation entirely. The thug who tried to point an AKM at an active duty military member in Austin recently has had me thinking. This stuff has come to Texas, and not far from me.
If you haven't heard Michael's podcast on this (https://www.michaelbane.tv/the-big-steel-box-conundrum/45894/), please do yourself a favor and listen to it now. He makes a lot of good points and really has me thinking.
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I drive a 3/4 ton truck. I will use it as bull dozer if needed.
Pointing a gun at me will be taken as a threat against my life.
I had to recently drive the misses too work an a area that was take over by rioters. Of which all but one of the ~90that were arrested came from out of state( portland area to be exact) no where is safe when they bus them in. I have been rolling with multiple long guns and at least 2 hand guns on my person since thie crap started. The misses has not drove her self to work and back for months. I am not too worried about her at work, she works several floors up, in a childrens hospital. So not a likely target of those that want to do harm. They also have police and armed security and it is a check in check out, plus the kung flu bs to get even in the parking lot.
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I don't think it's a good idea to post "what if's" on a public forum, it could come back to bite you in the ass.
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I don't think it's a good idea to post "what if's" on a public forum, it could come back to bite you in the ass.
I 100% agree about caution. I won't say what I would do in response to a threat, because there are far too many variables to be able to predict a threat and what the best response would be.
I will say that avoidance or escape is better than someone getting hurt. I can have a vehicle repaired or replaced, so I have to treat a car or truck as somewhat disposable. We've seen the videos of someone who gets out of the car after somebody hits it, and ends up in the fetal position being kicked and stomped. Reginald Denny (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny) was never the same after he was attacked.
On the other hand, even if you're driving a Mercedes Geländewagen ("G-Wagen"), the cost of bail alone could exceed the price of replacing the vehicle, which last time I checked, started at $125,000, and generally went for more like $150,000 to $175,000. Bail and a good attorney could easily cost you more, even if all you did was punch someone in the nose when they tried to grab you through an open window. That doesn't include YOUR medical bills if things don't go according to your plan...
Not only could you face arrest, but lawsuits are likely to follow. Now you're past the cost of your vehicle and placing your house on the market or taking a second loan to cover legal fees. It isn't fair, but it can easily happen.
I'm more interested in talking about knowing alternate routes, sources of information for figuring out a safe route if I have to go downtown, what kind of medkit to keep handy, having a fire extinguisher in the car, etc.
I've changed the way I drive: I'm much more interested in what's happening a mile or more down the road. I have "won" more than one fight by seeing that it was about to happen and crossing the street, leaving the bar, etc. The best confrontations are the ones I'm not part of.
Respectfully,
Bob
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The events of recent have given pause to consider less-than-lethal alternatives.
I have dash-cams in both vehicles, but to be of use in a situation like these an interior cam would be more useful later on.
Being retired, I have no reason to go to any of the more likely areas of disturbance. That said, mobs can pop-up anywhere. In ATL they could decide to shut down the perimeter as easily as the downtown connector. When we finally take that Florida trip, getting through ATL will be the greatest peril. Early morning will be my friend.
While Ferguson has been kinda of quite after the no-charge announcement, other cities might not be so lucky. I've made fun of ATL as being sort of an also-ran when it comes to protests (and sports), but when the charges are dropped against the officers in the Rayshard Brooks case I expect a fair amount of unrest.
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The events of recent have given pause to consider less-than-lethal alternatives.
I have dash-cams in both vehicles, but to be of use in a situation like these an interior cam would be more useful later on.
Being retired, I have no reason to go to any of the more likely areas of disturbance. That said, mobs can pop-up anywhere. In ATL they could decide to shut down the perimeter as easily as the downtown connector. When we finally take that Florida trip, getting through ATL will be the greatest peril. Early morning will be my friend.
While Ferguson has been kinda of quite after the no-charge announcement, other cities might not be so lucky. I've made fun of ATL as being sort of an also-ran when it comes to protests (and sports), but when the charges are dropped against the officers in the George Floyd case I expect a fair amount of unrest.
get the dash cam. Just make sure it can see in the dark and has an abilty to export/ screen other than the sd card. Makes showing the officer responding to the accident what happened real easy. Saved me or my employees bacon many times. Hell the 1st time i used it, it saved me the 15k i spent putting them in all my trucks. The last time i used it, it recorded an women backing into my parked back hoe... she ran over 3 cones. I guess the big orange flashing lights where not enough for her to see it.
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Ask MB, he's the one with 3rd world shithole experience.
Doesn't matter whether it's MPLA, ANC, or Antifa, same thugs with a fragment of power.
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get the dash cam. Just make sure it can see in the dark and has an abilty to export/ screen other than the sd card. Makes showing the officer responding to the accident what happened real easy. Saved me or my employees bacon many times. Hell the 1st time i used it, it saved me the 15k i spent putting them in all my trucks. The last time i used it, it recorded an women backing into my parked back hoe... she ran over 3 cones. I guess the big orange flashing lights where not enough for her to see it.
What do you think about this one Tab?
https://www.amazon.com/VAVA-Infrared-Control-Display-Parking/dp/B085Y61W5V/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=dash+cam&qid=1596685310&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0ZDMEVDWlJGWDRIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTQ0ODg5MTVTMTFPSlRCWVRCVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjUxNzc4MktaTDJGUzBWQzIzMiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= (https://www.amazon.com/VAVA-Infrared-Control-Display-Parking/dp/B085Y61W5V/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=dash+cam&qid=1596685310&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0ZDMEVDWlJGWDRIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTQ0ODg5MTVTMTFPSlRCWVRCVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjUxNzc4MktaTDJGUzBWQzIzMiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
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A few things to keep in mind about riots and roadblocks, at the present moment:
- The rioters are dialing up the violence level. Lasers are being used on law enforcement, in the attempt to blind them. They have also been used on a private citizens. In Portland, they followed a woman home, prevented her from entering her home, and tried to blind her. They have returned to threaten her and to vandalize her home.
- Weapons used at roadblocks include caltrops to puncture car tires, impact weapons, large fireworks, IEDs, and, increasingly firearms. A recent video from Indianapolis showed two rioters pointing handguns at a truck in broad daylight. There have been multiple incidents of rioters firing at people in roadblocks
- Police may not be present in effective numbers, or they could be there to protect the rioters.
- Rioters are routinely photographing the faces and the license plates of everyone they have confrontations with, for later doxxing, threats and harrassment.
All of the above leads me to a few conclusions:
- My first, second and last priority are to avoid interactions with rioters. I am paying close attention to news and am avoiding downtowns, especially at night.
- I need to keep self-defense tool(s) and other essential items on me (best) or in a bail-out bag I can grab as exiting the vehicle (2nd best).
- I need to keep a high level of alertness and keep all windows up at all times. I should also wear a ball cap while driving. It might help me hide my eyes from lasers if the vehicle is swarmed.
- I need to remember that a riot or roadblock is likely a YOYO event (You're On Your Own).
Everyone needs to evaluate their situation and make their own conclusions, but this may give ya'll something to think about.
Respectfully,
Dirty Bob
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What do you think about this one Tab?
https://www.amazon.com/VAVA-Infrared-Control-Display-Parking/dp/B085Y61W5V/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=dash+cam&qid=1596685310&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0ZDMEVDWlJGWDRIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTQ0ODg5MTVTMTFPSlRCWVRCVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjUxNzc4MktaTDJGUzBWQzIzMiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= (https://www.amazon.com/VAVA-Infrared-Control-Display-Parking/dp/B085Y61W5V/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?dchild=1&keywords=dash+cam&qid=1596685310&refinements=p_72%3A2661618011&rnid=2661617011&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExN0ZDMEVDWlJGWDRIJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTQ0ODg5MTVTMTFPSlRCWVRCVyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwMjUxNzc4MktaTDJGUzBWQzIzMiZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=)
one big glaring weakness, no audio. ( atleast that i could find)
You really want that. Thinga like a horn blaring could be the difference from fualt or not in an accident. With thr riots and other civil unrest. Having it record some one making a threat too you is invaluable. Its no longer your word vs thiers, its this is what was said.
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Do unto others
https://conservativeus.com/austin-police-release-driver-who-shot-and-killed-antifa-protester-garrett-foster-photo-shows-that-foster-was-pointing-his-ak-47-at-the-driver/
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Having never come across a riot or roadblock, I wondered why revers gear has not been mentioned?
Is it because that, obviously, was the first act to remove oneself from the threat?
Or are there rioters hanging back to stop retreat near the roadblock?
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Having never come across a riot or roadblock, I wondered why revers gear has not been mentioned?
Is it because that, obviously, was the first act to remove oneself from the threat?
Or are there rioters hanging back to stop retreat near the roadblock?
Often times reverse is not an option due to traffic behind you. Also, reverse is the most dangerous direction in a motor vehicle. You don't have clear visibility. This is the reason you see First and Emergency Responders parking so they can exit the stalls in a forward movement.
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one big glaring weakness, no audio. ( atleast that i could find)
You really want that. Thinga like a horn blaring could be the difference from fualt or not in an accident. With thr riots and other civil unrest. Having it record some one making a threat too you is invaluable. Its no longer your word vs thiers, its this is what was said.
I do not want sound. We have dual camera systems in our CMV's. They have sound, but the mode is set extremely low. If I hear the music in the vehicle, I will notify the driver to done it down. These will not pickup conversations, most shouting, and they don't even pickup the City or Highway horns.
What I do want is the cabin view. This will show your alertness, your physical actions and any actions against your person, and it will show your warning attempts. It is one thing for the camera to show your expressions and lip movements, but you do not want a jury listening to you scream at the "F'N A Holes".
This camera has a download feature through an app. I would investigate what it takes to grab the video. You want it downloaded quickly in these situations to assure it isn't lost due to destruction.