The Down Range Forum

Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: ronlday on February 09, 2021, 03:20:48 PM

Title: why still using primers?
Post by: ronlday on February 09, 2021, 03:20:48 PM
i have been wondering why they are still using primers. why have they not developed electric fired ammunition? electric fired squibs are used in rockets. i would think they could do some thing simlir with ammunition.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: Jim Kennedy-ar154me on February 09, 2021, 03:29:52 PM
i have been wondering why they are still using primers. why have they not developed electric fired ammunition? electric fired squibs are used in rockets. i would think they could do some thing simlir with ammunition.

I don't want a firearm that relies on electronics in any way. Too many chances of failures and/or unintended discharges. Electronics can and do fail and any firing system that uses electronics can be discharged by stray electromagnetic fields like radio transmissions and such. I don't think they would be safe. IMHO
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: TAB on February 09, 2021, 03:31:42 PM
i have been wondering why they are still using primers. why have they not developed electric fired ammunition? electric fired squibs are used in rockets. i would think they could do some thing simlir with ammunition.
they did.  Remington made bolt guns years ago.  Also the atf  said it must be a manually  cycled gun or it would be a machinegun
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: billt on February 09, 2021, 04:29:49 PM
they did.  Remington made bolt guns years ago.  Also the atf  said it must be a manually  cycled gun or it would be a machinegun

Yes. It was called the Remington EtronX. It was a big flop that required special ammunition and primers for reloading. Both the guns and ammunition are now collectors items.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qP6Q9ZEsEo
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 09, 2021, 07:10:31 PM
Yes. It was called the Remington EtronX. It was a big flop that required special ammunition and primers for reloading. Both the guns and ammunition are now collectors items.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qP6Q9ZEsEo

But they ARE out there.
Then there's this,
https://www.fieldandstream.com/pages/electrifying-muzzleloaders-cvas-new-electronic-ignition-system/

But really, it might not be an issue where muzzle loaders already require a cap .
But all you gain is faster lock time .
The average buyer doesn't give a crap, he just wants bullets,.
Preferably CHEAP bullets. 
Crap,
Right now , ANY bullets.
HEY ! That reminds me.
The chiseling SOB at Belmont Firearms and Range has S&W Model 41 $1300 Fing dollars .

https://shop.belmontfirearms.com/handguns/semi-automatic-handguns/smith-wesson-mod-41-22-lr-55-101-wooden-target-wthumbrest-grip-adj-sight-blue
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: Dirty Bob on February 10, 2021, 10:51:04 AM
I sense your question might be tongue-in-cheek.

Primers and ammo have proven quite stable and reliable. I'm not eager to try a new system, especially right now!
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: alfsauve on February 10, 2021, 02:14:13 PM
I'm thinking I remember about several experimental "caseless" rounds the military experimented with
that used electric ignition.    I want to say in the 70s or 80s.  As I remember it was a triangular shaped "case", and fired flechets rather than a solid bullet.   One of the gun magazines had an article about it and some field tests at Ft Benning.

Given the leaps in battery technology, I wouldn't be surprise if we might not see renewed interest.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: TAB on February 10, 2021, 05:12:16 PM
I have heard that the reason Remington made them was to improve  accuracy.  No moving parts to interfere  with your hold.   The fall of a striker does move your site picture ever so slightly
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 11, 2021, 08:48:31 AM
I sense your question might be tongue-in-cheek.

Primers and ammo have proven quite stable and reliable. I'm not eager to try a new system, especially right now!

Especially not a "new to me" system from 30 years ago !

I'm thinking I remember about several experimental "caseless" rounds the military experimented with
that used electric ignition.    I want to say in the 70s or 80s.  As I remember it was a triangular shaped "case", and fired flechets rather than a solid bullet.   One of the gun magazines had an article about it and some field tests at Ft Benning.

Given the leaps in battery technology, I wouldn't be surprise if we might not see renewed interest.

Alf, that would be the SALVO, and SPEW programs.
Sorry, this is a full playlist on those programs.  Ian getting a work out on this subject   ;D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfPZSxxPf1o&list=PL9e3UCcU00TTWo5LXggUVB3kufdJA8LGM



Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: ronlday on February 11, 2021, 10:45:56 AM
i was wondering due to the shortage of ammo. and thinking part of that was due to ammo companies not getting primers in numbers they use to.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 11, 2021, 02:23:23 PM
i was wondering due to the shortage of ammo. and thinking part of that was due to ammo companies not getting primers in numbers they use to.

I seriously believe that it is simply a result of all the guns being bought.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: Majer on February 11, 2021, 04:39:20 PM
The Feds reported 20 million new gun owners last year, if they bought 100 rounds each that adds up to 2 billion rounds of ammo, Now that 100 rounds each doesn't last long so there are a lot of people buying more ammo than in previous years.Not to mention the hoarders and the scalpers that are buying more than they'll use in a lifetime.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on February 12, 2021, 08:57:55 AM
The Feds reported 20 million new gun owners last year, if they bought 100 rounds each that adds up to 2 billion rounds of ammo, Now that 100 rounds each doesn't last long so there are a lot of people buying more ammo than in previous years.Not to mention the hoarders and the scalpers that are buying more than they'll use in a lifetime.

The more ammo you have, the longer your "lifetime" is apt to be.   ;D
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: MikeBjerum on February 13, 2021, 03:24:47 PM
i was wondering due to the shortage of ammo. and thinking part of that was due to ammo companies not getting primers in numbers they use to.

Ammunition manufacturers (the major manufacturers) make the primers.  Supply is being raped by demand.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 19, 2021, 10:20:41 AM
I sense your question might be tongue-in-cheek.

Primers and ammo have proven quite stable and reliable. I'm not eager to try a new system, especially right now!

Not really.
Ever since they've been invented they have been the most difficult to acquire part of the firing sequence.
If you have to, you can dig your own lead, and make black powder, but it takes special machinery beyond a shovel and fire to make primers.
The overwhelming popularity of European designed Boxer primers over American designed Berdan primers shows that reloadability has always been a major concern with US shooters.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: Jim Kennedy-ar154me on March 19, 2021, 11:24:13 AM
.
The overwhelming popularity of European designed Boxer primers over American designed Berdan primers shows that reloadability has always been a major concern with US shooters.

Thanks. I didn't know Berdan was an American design.
Title: Re: why still using primers?
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 19, 2021, 04:38:07 PM
Thanks. I didn't know Berdan was an American design.
Hiram Berdan, The coward who formed the 1st US Sharpshooters.
Hell of a shooter and arms designer, but he had a habit of leading from as far to the rear as he could get.
The primer design was just a side result with his other work .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0ivCTSTkzU