The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: billt on July 26, 2021, 12:56:25 AM
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Do any of you guys have one? If so how do you like it? I ordered one the other day, and it's scheduled to arrive this coming Wednesday on the brown truck. I bought the "Bravo" model with 3, 25 round magazines. $180.00 + Tax and shipping. Not too bad. I got it from Primary Arms. They shipped it within 2 hours.
I've watched a bunch of videos on You Tube, and most seem pretty happy with it overall. The AR twist rate, (1 in 7"), over spins the .22 L.R. bullet by a factor of over 2 to 1, but even so it doesn't seem to deter from accuracy too much. Most of them group pretty well. At least from the demonstrations I've seen.
And the only way you're going to get around the twist rate, and get a 1 in 16" twist barrel, is to go with a dedicated .22 L.R. upper. And for a good one you're looking at $500.00 or so. I didn't want to spend that much, because this is more or less a SHTF purchase, and a way of making all of my AR's able to fire .22's.
I know Ciener makes one, but I've heard that guy is nothing but trouble to deal with. I don't even know if he makes them anymore. I have a Beretta .22 conversion for my Beretta Model 92 FS, and it runs well. So I'll be looking forward to trying this one out. You guys chime in if you have any advice on ammo. It says they run best on Federal Copper Plated Hi-Speed Hollow Points. And I have literally dozens of 550 round, "Bulk Packs" of that stuff.
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I love them, I have two. I got my first one way back when BHO was prez during an ammo shortage. I was able to continue to train with cheaper ammo.
I don't notice an accuracy issue but then I only use it for training. I'm not shooting for tiny groups. Sometimes I run one with the can on.
I've seen AR pricing start to relax a bit from the highs so maybe you can dedicated upper before too long. However, with the idiots we have running everything the prices may never return to where they were.
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If you can find any try the Aguila .22 SSS (SniperSubSonic) It's a 60 grain bullet that should work well in a 1/7 twist barrel.
https://www.aguilaammo.com/ammunition/1b220112-22-sniper-subsonic-60/
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I remember seeing those. I'll have to try some.
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The sss will not cycle in autos. They are very quite out of a bolt gun with a good can... just saying. ;D
Its my go to for varmint removal. Just have a good back stop for pass thrus... ;)
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heck they'd probably be fairly quiet out of any locked breech even without a can.
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heck they'd probably be fairly quiet out of any locked breech even without a can.
They are quiet. I bought a few boxes in the early 2000's...still have most of them. Not accurate past ~50' in my guns.
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Do they tumble?
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They had some in stock here, not cheap, but available.
https://www.brownells.com/ammunition/rimfire-ammo/sniper-subsonic-22-long-rifle-rimfire-ammo-prod137269.aspx?avs%7cCartridge_1=AFF_22+Long+Rifle&avs%7cBullet+Weight+(Grains)_1=60
In a standard .22 rim fire barrel they will keyhole past a certain distance, But should be fine in an AR-15 barrel.
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Do they tumble?
not sure i have not shot them past about 25 yards out of a bolt gun with a can. I can tell you its odd hear the action work them thr smack of a bullet hitting flesh
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Do they tumble?
They do for me.
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my Steel Challenge rifle is a CMMG "B" unit in a ~10" barrel on my registered SBR with a Holosun 510c and B5 stock... works really well for me... in shooting competition with a .22lr, access to the chamber area and bolt face for cleaning is important, as well as what I perceive as the better extractor and ejector, compared to friend's SW 15-22 and Ruger 10/22s....mine appears to be much more reliable... I shoot CCI Blazer for competition, and Federal Bulk Champion for practice
I shot an older "A" unit in a standard 1/8 5.56 barrel for a couple of years, and accuracy was about 3 1/2" at 50yd...
if you shoot a CMMG unit and experience ignition problems with some bulk ammo (ammo primer compound problem,) I'd suggest a firing pin from Bore Buddy... kind of a unique design... in addition to a radius at the step down transition, the strike end is not a traditional wedge, but a circular (flat) hit that strikes just below the rim, where it does not have to compress the fold of two layers of cartridge brass... really smacks it hard
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At the current prices, I see no point in 22 conversions.
Lack of availability, and asinine prices eliminate any savings,
https://ammoseek.com/ammo/22lr
As for making changes to a centerfire gun to suit the adapter is a bad idea,
All adapters/ conversion units are a kludge just by the nature of making something do things it wasn't designed for.
If you want to train with 22 make the kludge suit the rifle for less hassle changing back to the primary mode.
If you want a good 22 get a 22.
It will be no more expensive, and being purpose built, it will work better.
If you just want stuff to hang on your AR send me an STL file for it and I will print you out a cup holder. ;D
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Although it doesn’t work well on extraction, I yoosta could shoot my 1903 pump .22 as fast as an AR type!
At least for the 8 rounds the mag held and one indapipe!
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Although it doesn’t work well on extraction, I yoosta could shoot my 1903 pump .22 as fast as an AR type!
At least for the 8 rounds the mag held and one indapipe!
Is that southeast of Pakistan? :D
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Is that southeast of Pakistan? :D
Only thing "indapipe" around here is "daweed". ;D
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I'm 73, overweight, and osteo arthritis in my left knee... in 92+ heat with 100+ heat index it is hot as hell to shoot in Florida in July/August/September/October... I have a battery powered Ridgid contractor fan, umbrella, soft sided cooler, and stool on my gun cart... Steel Challenge allows me to play in the shooting sports ,and not damage anything
I'm not rich, but have no real outstanding expenses, so a SC match of 6 stages (5 runs on 5 targets) is a minimum of 150 rounds of ammo... .22lr ammo is available at $.10/round + tax but free shipping...so a day of shooting competition for $15+ entry fee... I shoot 3 matches a month, plus 4 practice sessions a month...
from the competitive aspect... .22lr offers the least amount of dot scope shake, and rim fire rifle open division's is a highly competitive division.... peak time for a couple of the fastest stages is 7.5 seconds ( 7.5 seconds for 4 runs, your slowest run is thrown out), so from a low ready position you need to shoot 5 targets with an average time of 1.875 seconds...your actual time is factored to a percentages of that time determines your classification
the modifications to my SBR and Ruger MKIV have been primarily to enhance reliability of the platforms... you get to only throw away one run per stage... I don't mind making a mistake with a shot, but I hate to have the firearm go down... regards Les
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For me switching from centerfire to 22LR and back helps identify, isolate and address bad habits. Especially with handguns. Going to the diminutive 22LR really improved my performance on centerfire. My CMMG units work as well as "real thing". Also with the 22LR you can shoot a lot more rounds with a lot less fatigue and get in more reps and more productive reps to improve one's performance.
Now, if I could just find the time to shoot....
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My concept with this whole deal is simply added usefulness. .22 ammo I got. A LOT OF. I've bought tons of it over the years, anticipating lots of use from all of my rimfire guns after retirement. As it turned out, my supply has out distanced my demand. I have several AR's. (All .223 / 5.56 MM). So I figure for around $200.00 I can have ALL of them able to shoot .22 L.R. as well. It just seemed like an obvious purchase.
I've held off until now because some of the earlier models had reliability issues. But most all of those problems seem to have been solved, and these things are selling by the boxcar load. If this thing runs good, and I find I really like it, I just may spring for a dedicated .22 L.R. upper. But for now we'll see how it goes. It's coming today.
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The only issue I've had with 22's is that past about 10 years it loses it's pizzazzzz. Be ready to knock stuck lead out of your barrel....
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Billt... you will put a bunch of residue into the action if you use a chamber insert on an AR with a standard gas tube.. when I used my CMMG A unit for 3 gun practice, I put 1000 rounds of transition practice prior to the 2009 Ft Benning match, by 2010 I had cobbled a spare upper to which I had removed the gas tube, and closed off the gas port with a stainless screw clamp... plenty accurate for what I was using it for... after 2010, I got a 16" dedicated barrel... when I got my registered SBR I got the 10" and short 9mm options also.. regards
my first decision was to build a 10/22 for Steel Challenge... I just was unhappy with the reliability of the platform (mine was not a Ruger receiver)... the short AR works fine for me... I have a 16" backup
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Rastus... some of the bulk ammo now available is marginal in operating the action of my Ruger MKIV lite...some failed to sufficiently move the bolt to re-cock the hammer... I added the Volquartsen adjustable spring system, using the lightest spring, to help alleviate the issue... still had a couple fail to extract, but not with the CCI Blazer I use for competition ...the CMMG unit in the rifle has a longer spring travel, and I think this helps with reliability... regards
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It came this morning. I didn't care for the blister pack they shipped it in, so I went to Harbor Freight and picked up one of those Apache Pelican style medium sized cases with the "pluckable" foam, and it fit perfectly with all 3 magazines. As soon as it cools off, I'll take it out and light it up. It looks to be very well made. We'll see.
(https://i.imgur.com/s8ZsdoM.jpg?1)
(https://i.imgur.com/fKBNj6b.jpg?1)
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Nice. Let us know how you like it.