The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Shotguns => Topic started by: Big Frank on December 20, 2022, 10:28:46 AM
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I think I found my next new firearm, the 12 gauge VRF14 from RIA-USA. A one-of-a-kind, detachable box mag-fed, pistol grip, 14” barrel, firearm. Mossberg can stick their Shock 'n' Saw where the sun doesn't shine. Sorry, Remington V3 TAC-13. My heart yearns for another now. And if it wasn't out of stock at Advanced Tactical, I could get it on sale for 80% less than the Remington.
https://www.armscor.com/vrf14
https://advancedtactical.com/VRF14/
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Moar!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eg_XCe0u1I0
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It comes with sights but they wouldn't be much of use to me. I think I'd buy a Viridian HS1 Hand Stop Laser, Black with Green Laser, with a Two-Slot M-LOK to Picatinny Rail Adapter. Then cover the rest of the bottom slots with rail covers. And put a big tactical flashlight on top in place of sights since I would use it for home defense. Loaded with reduced recoil buckshot, like the 9-pellet 00 I just bought. And possibly a thumb stop on the left rail for consistent hand position.
But if I find out for sure vertical fore grips, not just horizontal chainsaw grips, are legal on "firearms" all that goes out the window. I never heard that you can't put one on, and I recall reading once that since they aren't pistols you CAN put a VFG on them. I already have an extra VFG that should work just fine on it. Then I would just put a plain laser and light on instead of the hand stop laser.
https://viridianweapontech.com/products/hs1-laser-with-picatinny-rail-adapter
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I didn't check my email yesterday so I didn't know these were back in stock. They're sold out again today. They make a +2 mag extension for the VR80 box mags that's supposed to work on this too. They're probably the same mags. So instead of 5, 9, and 19 round mags for it, you can have 7, 11, and 21 round mags, plus they make a 21 round drum. I think I would stick with 5 and 9 round mags, but add the +2 followers, which they say need to be fitted by a gunsmith. I'm not a gunsmith but I know my way around a hammer. ;D I can fix anything with the right size hammer. ::)
Between a 2 pound ball-peen hammer and rubber mallet, I fixed my furnace last night. I'm not kidding. It's been running good all day, for the first time in over a month. I haven't been kicking it in the right place lately to jiggle the bad relay that's probably 40-50 years old and out of production, and got both doors all bent out of shape. Since I hammered out the doors I can kick it in the right place without the top door falling off and landing on the floor with a clatter and clang.
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I still don't have a VRF14, but I'm so sure I'm getting one that I started ordering mags and aftermarket parts and accessories for it. One package should be here Friday and another one Saturday. The Taylor Freelance +3 extended baseplate extends the 9-round VR80 shotgun magazine, which also fits the VRF14, by THREE rounds to 12+1, extends the 5-round mag by two rounds, creating a much-more-useful 7+1, and extends the 19-round mag by one round to get 20+1 capacity. If you live in a Low-Cap state, leave the 9-round mag's spring guide in place to limit the mag to 10+1. They also make a VR80 PRO Pad +0. It replaces the polymer factory basepad with durable aluminum CNC machined from bar stock.
I bought 4 red +3 mag extensions from Advanced Tactical because they were cheaper there than Taylor Freelance. I got Red because they don't have Black in stock and don't sell the Blue ones, and I don't want Anodized Gold or Raw Aluminum. I'll hit them with black spray paint if I ever want them to look more tactical. I don't know if the gun will have a 5 round or 9 round mag when I buy it. I'll take whatever I can get. Advanced Tactical only has 5 round and 19 round mags in stock, so I got a 5 and 2 19s. When I get the gun, I need to get an additional 5 round mag and a pair of 9 round mags, including whatever comes with it, so I'll have 2 of each. I have a pair of Black +0 basepads from Taylor Freelance on the way to put on the 19 round mags, and will put the 4 +3 mag extensions on the 5 round and 9 round mags, starting with my single 5 round mag. No plastic baseplates for me.
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I got an email Thursday that 9 round mags were in stock and ordered 2, but still no gun. Palmetto State Armory said they had some a few days ago, but when I clicked the link, the page didn't exist. These guns seem to sell out in minutes, especially at Advanced Tactical where they're still on sale for half price. Theirs are $300 off and another place that was selling them had them on sale for $50 off. I think they were out of stock too but can't remember that far back.
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I finally ordered my gun Tuesday. Wednesday my local dealer sent them their FFL along with my order number, and now I wait. Advanced Tactical is short staffed and 3-5 days behind on shipping, so it hasn't gone out yet. I ordered it without any extra mags since I already have them. It will have one 5 round mag, which I've had the extension ready for since January. That makes a total of 2 19 round, 2 9+3 round, and 2 5+2 round, since the +3 extensions are +2 on the 5 round mags.
I got a Strike Industries Ambush sling loop to mount a single point sling on it. This thing is pretty slick. It sits flat in between the rails so it won't interfere with your sights and fits under longer optics. It has dual purpose loop and QD socket sling attachments, and it's made of solid steel. They say this is the lowest profile sling mount anyone makes, and it is AFAIK.
https://www.strikeindustries.com/si-ambush.html
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My firearm came in today, later than I expected. I slept in late so it didn't matter. I'll go get it when I don't have to be in a hurry. I won't have time to go to the gun store Saturday when they're really busy, and they're closed Sunday and Monday. The good news is they're open 11:30 - 7 Tuesday-Friday. Those are the kind of hours I can work around and still sleep all morning. :) Here's how the VRF14 looks compared to the VR60 shotgun. The whole mag-well is a lot more like a standard AR-10/AR-15 style. My Colt AR-15 has the mag release setting out in the open like that, with no fence around it. It's never been a problem but could be if I add an extended button. The rest of the gun looks about the same until you work your way back to the wrist of the shotgun. And the VRF14 comes with a set of flip-up sights that aren't on this one. Since it's all Picatinny rail it should take AR-15 sights. I'll try my A2 carry handle on just for the heck of it. I wonder if the uppers and lowers are interchangeable?
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I edited the sights off the shotgun in Microsoft Paint and cut both guns down to the same length. Now they really look the same, other than the mag well. There's probably some difference between the uppers and lowers and the barrels that prevents you from swapping parts from one to the other to make a short-barreled shotgun. I don't know why it took over 80 years for manufacturers to come out with non-NFA firearms like the Mossberg Shockwave, etc., but I'm glad they did. The NFA is BS anyway, and this looks like it's going to be a lot of fun. If it lives up to all my expectations, it will be my new anti-bear, anti-bobcat, stay the heck out of my tent gun. 12 gauge Buck > .45 ACP. Coyotes are shy and never bothered me, and I haven't had any dealings with bobcats and other critters yet, but one time a bear was literally within spitting distance of me. The 19 round mags look like they could be awkward handling and best for just goofing off, but the 9+3 mags are about 6" shorter. They'll protrude roughly 9" instead of 15". I measured from the center of the mag at the top, straight across to the center at the bottom. If a bear gets too bothersome a baker's dozen of 00 buck shells should take the steam out of it. If not, that's what spare mags are for.
I still find it hard to believe that this American made firearm costs less than 1/4 what a Remington TAC-13 does. A gun which I would also like to have, but not for over a grand. And when your 5+1 rounds in the TAC-13 are shot it's too slow to reload for mere mortals like me. At GunBroker TAC-13s range all the way up to $1495.00 Starting Bid, while this is on sale for $299, exactly 1/5 the cost. If I like this one I may buy another. At that price, why not? I thought about getting 2, but didn't want to buy 2 at a time and get flagged for making multiple purchases.
Starting Bid $1,495.00. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/987285226
Now: $299.00 <--- WINNER!!! https://advancedtactical.com/vrf14/
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I'm waiting for Advanced Tactical to get the UTG Ambidextrous Contoured Vertical Foregrip back in stock. The only person there who reviewed it said it's a perfect match for the handgrip on his VRF14, and feels very good. It's looks good enough to me in the picture I cobbled together. FAB Defense has one that looks better, but I don't think it's worth twice as much. Or maybe it is since it's extended far enough forward and back to keep your hand from ever touching the rail. I might get that one, since I finally just realized that. And I got a 10% off email coupon, but they don't have a black grip in stock. The rubberized one would be a good choice but I'd rather spend 17 bucks on a VFG (14 and change with my discount) than $49. TacStar Shotgun Grips are the closest match I ever found, but they don't make VFGs, just grips for the Remington 870, and Mossberg 500/590/600/Maverick.
https://www.leapers.com/utg-ambidextrous-combat-foregrip-symmetric-contourblack-rb-fgrp172b.html
https://fab-defenseus.com/ag-44/
https://fab-defenseus.com/rubberized-ergonomic-vertical-foregrip/
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Don't leave the 19 round mag loaded.
It doesn't do well when loaded and left.
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Thanks for that, Rastus. Any advice on the 5 and 9 round mags?
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For now I have the NcSTAR Aluminum AR15 Vertical Grip on and it feels pretty good. I may just stick with this one. I didn't think it would work out because the screw isn't enough to keep it secure on the rail. I looked in my bowl full of bolts and machine screws for something to put through the cross-holes, but nothing fit. Everything was either too large in diameter, or too short. I had number 10 screws that dropped in and went halfway in on each side, but no number 12 screws which would have fit tight. I did have one gold colored bolt with a matching Nyloc nut and washer that screwed in on one side, but it was WAY too short.
Then I saw a hot-dipped galvanized 10d nail lying there on my workbench and stuck it in the hole, and it was a pretty good fit. So I lopped it off with the bolt cutters, ground it down until it was just below flush and filed it smooth, and filed the two little gusset shapes off under the head of the nail that were there from when they made the head of the nail. Then the nail went all the way in and fit tight against the side, and the other end is either slightly below flush, or flush. I used a ruler as a straight edge and still can't tell. I chamfered the end and after I hit it with a paint pen it looks a lot like one of those custom 1911 slide releases. I did that after I put the big screw in the bottom of the grip and tightened it against the nail. I'm going to unscrew it and put blue Loctite on before I put it back in. I may smooth out the head of the nail too, just for GP.
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Thanks for that, Rastus. Any advice on the 5 and 9 round mags?
The 5 round seem solid. 9 rounders I don't know about.
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Good to know. With the +2/3 extensions, I don't know if they'll have any less tension on the springs, or more when they're fully loaded.
After I took some pics, UPS showed up with my muzzle brake, and another 19 round mag. I got the Taylor Freelance +0 baseplate directly from Taylor earlier today, and it took 5-10 seconds at most to swap them out. The muzzlebrake didn't go back far enough on the barrel to suit me, the 1st pair of screws were in front of the muzzle, so I cut the forend off at the back of the first Picatinny notch. Then I cut it at the front of the second notch, when I realized it's made like a vent rib barrel, and I had a little rib hanging off the end. :-[ I didn't notice that when I had it in the vise, looking down at the top. I squared it up, good enough for government work, with a file, put the brake on and called it day.
Yesterday was when I finally got my gun. I went to get it a week earlier but was delayed, after going in Tuesday that week and the NICS system being down. So much for "instant" background checks. First it didn't work, then when I was delayed, the dealer never got an answer. After 3 gubmint business days of waiting they let me have it. I read about one state, I think it was Oregon, where people were saying they never heard of a dealer in that state letting a gun go until the transfer was approved, no matter how long it took. If the instant check was delayed and took six weeks, you waited six weeks to get your gun.
My new gun dealer only charges $15 to transfer a firearm. My older brother said Williams Gun Sights wanted $50. Well, that's a no-brainer, even for him!
I cut and filed the bottom rear of the rear sight base just enough to square it off. That way I could butt it up against the sling mount and have it completely on the receiver, instead of the front of it extending onto the handguard. Because of the way everything on the sight base is angled it sticks out just a bit past the receiver, but not the part that's clamped down.
P.S. When I was working on it yesterday, I took the front sling swivel off, since I didn't plan on using it. The small screw with captive washer has a Nyloc nut, just like the swivel did. I wanted something to plug the hole and it fit.
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The only reason I bought another 19 round mag was Advanced Tactical had them on sale. They had the 9 round mags on sale too, really cheap. The 5 round mags weren't on sale, but I have another 5, a 9, and 2 more red +3 extensions coming. They should be here Tuesday. I would have bought black mag extensions, but I'd have to buy them from Taylor for full price plus shipping, like the +0 baseplates, instead of cheaper prices and free shipping on every order, except my gun. That was FedEx 2-day air, so it cost me, more than I'm used to paying to ship anything.
The charging handle is a Hayes Custom Guns Oversized Charging handle for VR80 shotguns. It's .130 longer and .075 larger diameter than the factory part, made of 303 Stainless Steel, is dimpled on both sides so it doesn't matter which way you put it in, and has 2 little tabs on the shank to prevent over-insertion. It also has greater texture over the factory part, and it's made in Texas, not Turkey, where the VR80, VR60 and other RIA shotguns are made. On the shotguns that are made so the bolt handle can be inserted from either side, if you lay it down on the side with the bolt handle down, it can force the bolt handle in too far. I don't know if that locks up the action or not, but it sounds like something you should try to avoid. The tabs on this bolt handle let you lay it on the "wrong" side if you want to.
https://hayescustomguns.com/
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They say it takes 200 rounds of high velocity ammo to break in the VRF14 and shotguns like the VR60 it's based on. So Monday, before I came home from a long weekend up at my friends' cabin, I drove over to the woods where I used to camp and small game hunt. I found some targets of opportunity there, AKA a bunch of junk dumped in the forest, >:( and fired 255 rounds of buckshot at it. Mostly 00 Buck, but also some No.4 Buck. 10 rounds, maybe 15, were tactical buckshot (reduced recoil), but the other 240 or 245 were full power loads. I don't think it would have been possible to shoot anywhere near that much without the muzzle brake. I had a lot of failures to feed the first round of a magazine, but it worked a lot better when I pulled the bolt back and released it, instead of pressing the bolt release. It needs the little extra oomph that the longer stroke provides. The bolt released itself several times when I inserted a new mag, and I would have to pull and release the bolt handle to get the shell to feed the rest of the way. I also shot 4 12 gauge red flares I had with me. I flipped the sights up and aimed those, and recoil was non-existent. Not even a little kick like a .22 LR. Of course I had to manually work the action, but the stubby little shells all fed. That was really surprising since it's such a long way up from the magazine to the barrel. Unlike a regular shotgun with a shell lifter, there's just a very steep feed ramp. I had a bunch of birdshot with me too, but had enough shooting for one day. After having a couple of drinks and watching the bonfire I started with the flares, I packed up and went four-wheeling.
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I have a 500 lumen tactical light on the left forend rail, my old Streamlight Scorpion on the right side, and a red laser on the bottom rail ahead of the VFG. Having the VFG angled 45 degrees to the left made the gun more comfortable to handle. I had a piece of a red filter from a G.I. crookneck flashlight, cut to size and super-glued to the Scorpion light, but the muzzle blast blew it off. I had a THYRM CLENS Protector on the VISM tac light to keep it clean, but that got blown off too. I can move the light back 1/4" farther in its mount and that's about it, but the muzzle brake is badly smoking up the first inch of the light. I don't know when the CLENS Protector came off, but it really worked until it did. That one didn't stick well after I removed it and placed it back on the light. It seems like a great product, if you get them centered on the lens the first time. I'll use some glass cleaner to clean my lenses off, put new CLENS Protectors on both lights, and move them back in their mounts. I have a flip-off red lens cover somewhere in my living room that I think fits the Streamlight Scorpion. I need to look for it again, so I can have an eye-friendly light on one side again, and the dazzler on the other.
https://thyrm.com/product/clens-protector/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6NTTsyKS-Q
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This could be an alternative to the Knight's Armament Co. Masterkey, with a magazine capacity greater than 3 rounds. The barrel could probably be shortened a few inches and the weapon still function.
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5.11 makes backpacks my shorty shotty will fit in. The non-tactical blue colored one doesn't look much like a gun case. Too bad there are so many negative reviews about the case. It's too thin, the gun prints right through it, there's no reinforcement for the muzzle, and nothing to hold the muzzle in place, so it will wear a hole in the case, they used to be good but now they're crap, or something like that. It was probably 2 weeks ago when I looked at it and I can't remember much for that long.
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If I ever SBS this gun it will be super simple, and the parts aren't very expensive either. I would just need to file a Form 4, I believe it is, to get permission to manufacture an SBS, pay the tax and wait. NcSTAR makes their VISM brand of shotgun accessories that are fully compatible. All I would have to do is remove the End Cap and replace it with a Shotgun Telestock Tube - Commercial-Spec. I could also replace the End Cap with a Left Side Folding Stock Adapter or Right Side Folding Stock Adapter, and attach the Shotgun Telestock Tube to it. Then I could pick up a cheap commercial-spec AR carbine buttstock, like this Tacfire AR-15 Commercial M4 Style 6 Position Stock. I can get the Left Side Folding Stock Adapter, Shotgun Telestock Tube - Commercial-Spec, and Tacfire AR-15 Commercial M4 Style 6 Position Stock, all for less than $65 right now from Optics Planet.
https://www.ncstar.com/optics-acc/vg-series/shotgun-accessories/?per_page=100¤t_page=1&sort_by=3
https://www.opticsplanet.com/
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The NcSTAR VISM Shotgun grip adaptors are available for Mossberg 500/590 and Maverick 88 shotguns, Remington 870 shotguns, and now a Turkish shotgun ergonomic pistol grip adapter in black only is available. It's compatible with these Turkısh shotguns brands: Asil Silah, Altobelli Arms, Armsan, ATA Arms, Atlas, Aziz Arms, Balikli Silah, Derya Arms, Eşrefoğlu Silah, Hatsan Escort, Huglu Atrox, Khan Arms A-Tac Force Duo-Sys, Kral Arms, Oncu Silah Sanayi, Pardus Arms, Şafak Av, Set Arms, Torun Arms, Typhoon Silah, Uzkon TRX, Waltter Silah.
Derya Arms makes all the RIA tacticool 12 gauge and 20 gauge shotguns, like the VR80 and VR60, etc., but if you buy a Derya brand it won't have the RIA Imports Limited Lifetime Warranty. On the other hand, Derya Arms makes things RIA doesn't sell, like 9.5", 14", and 17" versions of the MK-12. The MK-12 IPSC Version comes in 5 different barrel lengths.
https://deryaarms.com/
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My NcSTAR VISM didn't work anymore after I brought my gun home from the break-in shooting session, so I'll be sending it back for repair or replacement. In the meantime, I put a PL Turbo Valkyrie Tactical Light from Olight on the gun a couple weeks ago. The bar that locks into your rail is switchable from a narrow Glock size to narmal Picatinny thickness, and is adjustable to 3 different positions. You just slide it back and forth to where you want it, and when you clamp the light to the rail it stays put. It uses 2 CR123 batteries side by side which makes it nice and compact. It has a Long Focus & Wide Angle Simultaneously: with a max 66,300-candela light intensity, max 515-meter throw and 800-lumen output. The exceptional center spotlight and impressive floodlight helps to view both distant and nearby surroundings clearly. Their words. The latch for the battery compartment door flips up to unlatch and can't accidentally open while it's mounted. You have to take the light off to flip the lever. I think that security is worth the minor inconvenience. I got the black one, on sale. It lists right now for $89.99 for black or desert tan. The switches on each side are momentary switches if you hold either one, and regular on/off switches if you click either one. Clicking both of them at the same time activates the strobe. I bought a bunch of Olight AA and AAA flashlights too.
I put OD green ERGO LOW-PRO LADDER RAIL COVERS over most of the top rail. I bought it for one of my ARs when I thought I wanted OD green accents and bought several M-LOK rail covers to match. Now I think I want it all black.
https://www.olightstore.com/pl-turbo-tactical-flashlight-with-spotlight-and-floodlight
https://www.ergogrips.net/shop/ergo-18-slot-lowpro-ladder-rail-cover-3-pack/
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I found a YouTube video on that WML.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPpHibRpv-w
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The NcSTAR VISM 45,90,-45 Degree Side to Side Vertical Grip is really small in diameter at the top. I wrapped a string around it yesterday and measured it at a hair over 3.5" IIRC. I have big hands and I'm used to holding something in them with more girth. A lot more. Instead of trying to Jerry-rig the grip to make it bigger, I took it off and put my BCM Vertical Grip Mod 3, Picatinny - Black on it instead. It's a better fit to my hand, but it's only 2.5" tall and I can't get more than 2 1/2 fingers on it. I still have the aluminum vertical grip, but really liked angling the other grip 45 degrees to the side. If I molded some epoxy putty around it, doubling the diameter at the top, it would fit my my hand a lot better. Now I'm looking at the aluminum grip trying to figure out how to attach it to the 45,0,-45 pivot upside down, so my little finger would be in the narrow top groove. I might end up not using any of these 3 and having to buy another, bigger VFG. One that fits adult male hands, which the side to side adjusting grip won't unless that guy is a little person. BTW, the Picatinny rails on my gun are undersized and I had to put 2 or 3 layers of electrical tape on the bottom rail before I tightened the grip down over it.
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I put a different VFG on the gun Friday night/Saturday morning. The big hump om the backstrap and undercut at the top forces your forefinger way out past the rest of your hand, but the frontstrap is cut back for your trigger finger, which doesn't have a trigger or trigger guard to rest on. My forefingers naturally extend farther than the rest of my fingers when I start to curl them up, so my finger just wants to stick out, unsupported. I need a grip like an M1911 grip angle with the front and back parallel. The grip was apparently made for people with great big hands, and little tiny index fingers. I have a package of Strike Industries Strike Bang Bands, and a pack of Strike Bang Band Minis, so I put a Bang Band Mini on it, with the finger ledge turned inward to take up some of the excess space. It still doesn't feel close to being right, but It's batter than having nothing under my finger, or trying to curl my index finger around tighter than all my other fingers. But it makes the back of the grip feel worse. You get what you pay for, and in this case I got a $7 VFG from CDNN.
The regular Bang Bands have a cable channel guide, for cable management. They're reversible, with texture on both sides, and the cable channel guide is small enough to fit into M-LOK compatible slots. The Bang Band Minis let you add anti-slip finger grooves and texture to just about anything you want. And the inside is smooth. They're all made of Nitrile Butadiene Rubber (NBR) and withstand heat up to 226° F, so the rail on your AR would have to be boiling hot before they melted. I took the crappy laser off the gun because the batteries in it died. It's too easy to bump the switch and turn it on without knowing it, so I probably turned it on when I set the gun down. I have 2 Bang Band Minis on my full-size Para-Ordnance, and one on my LDA 12-45. The P-10 grip isn't long enough to put one where it needs to be.
https://www.strikeindustries.com/bangband.html
https://www.strikeindustries.com/si-bangband-34mm.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DexJowYLSa4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ot1L99EFXg
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The Picatinny rails on my gun are so undersized that I put about 5 layers of electrical tape on top on the grip to tighten up the space between the rail and grip. I cut the tape long and left it taped to the front and back of the grip to keep it in place while I slid the grip on. After I got it locked down, I puled the tape taut and cut it off with an X-acto knife. It worked quite well doing it that way. That was a lot easier than sticking tape to the surface of the rail, where only half of it made contact, or wrapping it around the edges of the rail like I did with the last VFG.
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I have a VFG on the way that I think I'll actually find usable, and comfortable enough. It's the Mission First Tactical (MFT) REACT Ergonomic Grip (REG). I ordered it from Wing Tactical yesterday, and got an email today saying they shipped it, the Strike Industries shotgun barrel clamp, and some other stuff. Strike Industries didn't have the black shotgun barrel clamp in stock, and probably won't for several weeks, but it was cheaper at Wing Tactical, one of their authorized dealers.
https://www.wingtactical.com/
Full fist-sized textured vertical grip with finger swells that provides a positive grip surface. This grip allows the support hand to apply rearward pressure to keep the weapon shouldered to enhance muzzle control and accuracy.
● Full sized vertical grip
● Contoured finger swells allow a firm grip even with gloved hands
● Secure watertight storage compartment
● Battery Sled with quick access tab diminishes rattle
● Flat non-slip bottom surface aids in supported firing positions
Weight: 2.3oz
Height: 4.601"
Width: 1.424"
Length: 2.203"
https://missionfirsttactical.com/REG
MFT also makes a REACT Quick Detach Grip (RQDG) I might like since it's even longer, and unlike a few of the grips I've already tried, it's smaller in diameter where your little finger goes than where your bigger fingers go. Instead of big where your little finger is and little where your bigger fingers are. But it's also like a hybrid of a broom handle style, so it may be too narrow. It's also a lot heavier.
Full fist-sized textured vertical grip that quickly detaches or attaches without the use of tools and provides a positive grip surface. Allows the support hand to apply rearward pressure keeping the weapon shouldered, yielding better muzzle control and accuracy.
● Quick detach vertical grip
● Grooved gripping surfaces to eliminate hand slippage
● Secure watertight storage
Weight: 4.0oz
Height: 5.096"
Width: 1.240"
Length: 2.00"
https://missionfirsttactical.com/RQDG
If I had a gun store, I would rig up a stock with a horizontal wheel up front and have a bunch of different VFGs attached, so people could shoulder it and hold each VFG until they found that one Goldilocks grip that felt just right. You could have 2 dozen small Pic rails screwed to the rim of a plastic bicycle wheel, and have a different VFG hanging from each one.
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My index finger set directly on top of the top ridge on the new VFG, instead of between the finger grooves. So like some Glock owners, I ground and filed it down, then sanded it with 80 grit sandpaper. I put the last VFG in the picture for a comparison. That thing is HEAVY. I put the Olight PL Turbo Tactical Light with Spotlight and Floodlight on after I took the pics.
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Here's someone's idea of a zombie ready QD VFG. :)
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Here it is with the VFG and the light back on it. And no sling loop on the back. Just a piece of foam rubber.
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I didn't want to make a new thread just for this. While I was digging through a box of gun parts I pulled out the spare compensator like the one my VRF14. I was looking at it thinking it looked like it would fit on the exterior choke tubes of my mom's old bolt-action Mossberg 20 gauge. It slid partway on. Then I loosened all 6 clamping screws and it fits perfectly. The shoulder inside the compensator butts right up against the shoulder of the knurled part of the choke tube. That part is just long enough for all 6 screws to clamp it down. The end of the choke tube sicks out into the comp, even with the back of the second slot from the rear. The first slot would only use whatever gas blew around the tapered choke tube, but the rest of it would work right. I wanted to mount a scope on this gun and use it for deer hunting, but haven't found a mount to fit it yet. The barrel is 28" long to the end of the choke tube which is way too long to swing around in the woods, and I would shorten to 18 1/2" or 20", something like that if I had a scope or red dot mounted. I have both to spare. It would be great if I found a scope mount and someone who could shorten the barrel and install a rifled choke tube. But I don't think it will ever happen. I bought a bunch of slugs and other ammo for it and don't have another 20 gauge, so I need to start shooting it. The Mossberg barrel alone is longer than the other whole gun by about 2". ;D
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I bought a left side folding stock adapter and put it on my gun. All I need now is a commercial spec stock tube adapter and a commercial spec M4-type collapsible stock. I found the stock tube adaptor for $9.20 and collapsible buttstock for commercial spec for $14.22 at ABCSportz. When I eventually apply to manufacture an SBS I'll be ready. They have the left side folding stock adapter for $11.64. I paid 23 bucks for mine and the cheapest I saw it until today was 22 bucks.
I drilled 2 holes about 3/16" diameter through the back of the shotgun grip adaptor end cap that I previously cut the sling loop off of and filed flat. I drilled a small hole horizontally through the plastic reinforcement rib on the inside where I indicated. That's for for the screw on the Samson Swivel Stud QD Adapter I put it on. Then I filled the holes and a large area inside the end cap with black hot glue and trimmed it with a knife. I was wondering how I could put a QD sling stud adaptor on the end cap then remembered I bought another pair of these.
https://www.ncstar.com/optics-acc/vg-series/20/1/3/
https://abcsportz.com/
https://www.samson-mfg.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SS-QD-ADPT
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Here are the stock and shotgun adaptor tube I ordered. It may be several years before I put them on. I have other things I need to spend money on besides ATF forms, and I need to take of them first. After I show the folding stock adaptor to my friends I might take it off and put the end cap back on. It's 4 extra ounces and about 2 inches I don't need on there, but it doesn't look like it will be a problem to leave it on. It depends mostly on how well it fits in the case, which I haven't tried yet.
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With the compensator on the muzzle and the stock adaptor unfolded, the gun fits perfectly in the CAR-15 size Assault Systems Tactical Rifle Case that I bought many years ago. The owners manual is in the long pocket that was made to hold a gun cleaning kit and other small items. The 4 mag pouches contain the heavy load gas piston and a hex wrench to take the muzzle brake off, a single point bungee sling, the box from the tactical light with a changing cable and stuff in it, and a Taylor Freelance mag loader. I can't field strip the gun when the compensator is mounted because the forearm has to slide off the front before I can unscrew the nut that holds everything else together. Too bad the"magazine cap" doesn't hold the barrel on, like my Remington shotgun.
The AG3 Munitions mini loader I bought broke the first time I used it. After I see if it works since I epoxied it back together, I can pop it into the same pocket as the good mag loader. AG3 Munitions sells this POS for $10, and they also sell the MUCH better Taylor Freelance mag loader, which is only $9 on sale now. That's a no-brainer. They sell Taylor Freelance VR80 +3 Magazine Extensions separately, and the blue ones are on sale for $36 instead of $39.95. But Advanced Tactical sells Black, Red, and Gold Anodized, and Raw Aluminum ones for $29.99. They're all the old style smooth mag extensions, not the Mark II with the horizontal grasping grooves on the sides, and a dot matrix on the bottom so you can easily number them with a paint pen.
https://elitesurvival.com/collections/assault-systems-gear
https://a3gmunitions.com/
https://advancedtactical.com/
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The Shotgun Grip Adapter and Collapsible Buttstock finally shipped Tuesday, 11 days after I ordered them.
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It took until today for my package to leave Anaheim, CA. No package should ever sit there in one city for 18 days. It should get there and leave there the same day unless it gets there at night. Then it should leave the following morning. This is unacceptable and inexcusable. And that's why I still think the USPS sucks.
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My package finally got here today but I haven't opened it yet. It took 24 days to get here since they didn't ship it until 11 days after I ordered it, then it spent 8 days setting there at the post office. It took 3 days to get here once it landed in Chicago, then Pontiac, and Detroit before heading to Flint. I think the pony express would have been faster.
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Last night I measured what the length of pull would be if the new stock was on the gun. It had a LOP of 15" MINIMUM, and could extend a couple more inches from there. That was unacceptable, so here's what I did.
1. I took the M4 stock off my AR-15 and put the new stock on instead. And I put the M4 carbine stock on my MechTech CCU. That's one of the heaviest guns I own BTW, because it's blowback operated and the bolt is huge. Neither gun kicks bad enough to need a recoil pad, but the rubber pad stays planted on my shoulder better than solid plastic. Since the the buttplate of the CAR-15 is even smaller, a slip-on pad makes it more comfortable for me to shoulder it. Both sizes are available online if anyone wants one. If I had another CAR-15 stock I'd get a pad for it.
2. I took the CAR-15 stock that was on the CCU and...
3. cut the front end with a coping saw just a hair in front of the 90 degree corner, and used a hacksaw to get through the steel insert. I didn't even know it was there until I took the stock off.
4. I also cut the back off of the "buffer tube" stock adaptor. I cut less off of it than the stock and the with the stock collapsed, the 2 parts are so perfectly flush at the rear you'd think I knew what I was doing.
.5 Here are the 2 pieces I cut off nested together. The new stock and tube are supposed to be commercial spec and everything else is all Mil-Spec, but it's all interchangeable with no looseness or binding. That seems to never happen to anyone else, but I got lucky.
.6 This is when the "fun" really started. There was nothing left to keep the stock from coming off when you extend it. So I found a bolt that fit in the hole and stuck it in with green Loctite. I turned it with an Allen wrench and it felt like the threads grabbed onto the plastic in the bottom of the hole. After I cut the bolt head off, ground down the end, and filed it, I painted it black with a touch up pen. The 5 position stock was now down to 3 positions and it was still too long. I drilled a hole where the front hole should be, and not having access to a mill or any other proper tools, I had to extend the slot forward quite a bit. It already had a narrow slot in it to lighten it, so I drilled down into it, then as close to horizontal as I could with a cordless drill. That left a LOT of material that that I picked away with a utility knife until the slot was long enough, and wide enough to slide back and forth. I rounded it off at the end just for S&G and called it good.
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7. Here's how the new stock compares to the one I modified. It's MUCH shorter now.
.8 You can see that the stock moves fully forward when closed.
.9 But it can slide back about 1/4" if you pull on it. It locks into the slot I made instead of fitting a hole just right. It's not enough to matter, except it's not exactly how I wanted it to turn out. Here's where the stock would attach if I put it on. I would just need to take the screw and plug out, then put the adaptor and screw in.
10. The blue arrow shows how much the stock can move back, compared to setting flush 2 pics above this one. It looks like the minimum LOP would be shortened to 13 1/4", maybe 13 12", from a full 15" + a fraction. That'll work. It could be fully collasppsed and glued in theat poposition so there's no movement. I have the stock and the gun stored in 2 different rooms of my house, so I don't see them together and get tempted to commit a felony by combing them. If the AFT (Absolute F***ing Terrorists) come by, I hope that's good enough since I haven't combined the 2 parts, and won't if I don't get a Form 4, or whatever it is, approved to manufacture a SBS. I suppose I could put a pistol brace on and see it having ir against my arm makes it more stable. It would give the gun a touch more weight at the rear if nothing else.
P.S. I need to see if I can find a QD sling mount that inserts into the hole in the hole on one side of the new stock and screws to the other half on the other side of the stock. Somebody makes them but I don't know who. I never paid attention because I never had a stock with a hole for QD sling cups, but nothing in the hole.
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Some JB weld in the slot would take the slop out of it, then use a Dremel to clean up any that goes where you don't need it.
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If I had a Dremel I would have used it instead of doing things the way I did. I'm not going to buy one to fix this up either. But JB Weld can be used for a lot of repairs on things most people wouldn't think of using it on. If I put some in the slot I could try again to drill the hole where I want it. I couldn't do that very well when there was already a narrow slot there. I'd have to do more drilling and filing to take the slack out, and it's only the first hole that's like that. If the stock is back 1/4" before I pull it into my shoulder and take the slack out, I think it would be good enough. I hope to find out some day. I recently spent $2,000 on a laptop I can't afford, and will be struggling to come up with money for things like tax stamps.
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Some JB weld in the slot would take the slop out of it, then use a Dremel to clean up any that goes where you don't need it.
I still don't have a Dremel, but I'm fixing this up. I rolled up a piece of cardboard and stuck it in the hole marked with a white circle, and taped around the back of the tube with masking tape. I filled the areas marked in gray with J B KwikWeld that I happened to have half a syringe full of. I ate breakfast then pulled the piece of cardboard out. The epoxy is still like taffy but with any luck will be solid tomorrow so I can file it flat. Then I just need to re-drill the front hole, and another hole halfway between it and the hole the cardboard was in. Even with syringes that should dispense equal amounts of resin and hardener, I always get epoxy mixed wrong. It squirts some out of one tube then some out of the other tube every time, and never in equal amounts. I think I can get it closer by eyeballing it, using regular tubes, but maybe not. I remember several times using epoxy that never did harden completely. Or maybe it did, after I threw away whatever I was using it on.
The L.O.P. looks like it would be right for me with the stock fully collapsed or in the next hole. So I thought about just putting a bunch of Goop on the tube and gluing the stock in the fully closed position. But I think I can do better than that. If I can't, it not for lack of trying, and giving up. I don't know the meaning of the word quit. Or when to quit. ;)
https://www.jbweld.com/product/kwikweld-syringe
After looking at the picture, I realized I should have put a piece of cardboard in the last hole and filled in the area between it and the screw I put in the very last hole. Not that I ever plan on using the last hole or the area around it, but it just seems like the right thing to do. When I'm done fixing up the part I'm already working on, maybe I'll see if I have enough JB Weld to fill that part in. If I do, I may even slap on a bit of paint over the JB Weld and make the job look complete.
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That epoxy STILL wasn't hard, but it was hard enough to file and sand. So I filed it down and sanded it flat with a piece of 120 grit sandpaper. Then I slid the stock onto the tube and gave the end of the locking pin on the adjuster a couple of taps with my plastic mallet. It made a small dent so know I know where to drill it tomorrow when hopefully it's fully hardened. And I only need to drill one hole, about halfway between the the square base of the tube and the first hole. Right about where I marked the pic with a blue circle. What's left of the 6-position tube will be 4 positions, but that's more than enough.
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The 6 minute JB KwikWeld still wasn't hard, but I drilled the hole out around 6 am. I was thinking that the steel insert with holes in it went all the way up there but it didn't. I was going to drill until I hit it, but since it wasn't there, and the epoxy wasn't hard, I drilled all the way through the bottom of the tube. That may actually be a good thing because it will break the suction when I move the stock in and out. It fits tighter than it needs to but it's still okay. I think it will be easier to move the stock in and out when I'm all done. I removed a little too much of the soft epoxy when I dug out the top part between the new hole and the next one. So I mixed up the rest of the JB KwikWeld and put a little back in there and then filled the space between the bolt I put in and the back of the stock. I scraped up the last drops of epoxy and put it on another project I've been working on. Pics in December if all goes according to plan. To remove that bit of epoxy at the top between those 2 holes, I was using a hacksaw blade and other tools, which cut down at an angle toward the front of the tube. I'm trying to do with simple hand tools what I need an end mill to do properly. Since I can't mill a slot with the top and bottom parallel to each other, I have to decide when it's good enough and to stop digging at it. Also, when I drilled the hole it made a small amount of slack when the stock is fully collapsed. Maybe 1/8" instead of the 1/2" or 3/4", or whatever it was before. After I get some sleep I'll see if the new epoxy set or not.
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And the quick-setting epoxy STILL isn't hard. I just got done whittling it down with a utility knife, and scraping out the trough between the 1st and 2nd holes with a 3/4" wood chisel. I got the bottom of the track flat and level now instead of being all gouged out at an angle. It was very tough going, because the epoxy is almost hard but not quite. I'll wait until later to sand it down again. I just checked the fit, and it feels great when it stops at the last hole instead of shooting past the hole then stopping. The fore and aft play it had when fully collapsed is virtually gone. MUCH better than all that slop that was in it before. Ill post a pic when I get done monkeying around with it.
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I finished working on the stock and hit it with a couple coats of spray paint before I went to bed this morning. You could say it's night and day difference from where I quit before. Even though it's not perfect, I'm happy with it now and that's what really counts. Like I said, I rolled up pieces of cardboard and stuck them in the 2nd and 4th holes in the stock. Then I filled the front (blue arrow) and back (red arrow) with JB Kwick. And I also put a little more where behind the 2nd hole (white arrow) so I could level it off better with a chisel, utility knife, and and sandpaper. I squared up the back end of the rib better too. The locking pin rocks front to back a little bit f I push and pull on the stock, but there's less movement in the first hole, the one I drilled through the epoxy, than there is when it's in the steel insert made into the stock. That part of it locks up tight, even better than a factory fit! So I'm not kidding when I say I'm happy with how it turned out. If I would have filled the front part with epoxy and drilled the hole first, before trying to cut the channel out, maybe I could have avoided that ugly part on the sides, between the first and second hole. That's the problem with redneck engineering. When you're doing something that has probably never been done before, you learn as you go and figure out what you should have done differently. It already had a narrow slot there for no apparent reason, other than to lighten it a tiny bit or use less material , maybe.
What do you guys think?
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I forgot to mention that since it's a CAR15 stock, the tube now has the correct number of holes. Unless you're talking about the very first 2 position stocks that only locked fully open or fully closed. The 6-position tube didn't come along until the M4 stock AFAIK. I'm not sure if the M4 stock came before the 6-hole receiver extension, after it, or at the same time. But they started with 2 holes, then had 4, then 6 with the M4, and Strike Industries or someone has a 7-position enhanced buffer tube for finer adjustments.
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I never got around to cleaning this thing after the 255 round buckshot break-in. I field stripped it today and it's FILTHY. Not black powder dirty, but close. I'll clean it while I watch TV or something later. I'm not putting the compensator back on it. I don't like having to use an Allen wrench to back off all 6 screws a tiny bit at a time to get it off. Without the comp, it's tool-less disassembly and reassembly. What looks like a magazine cap only holds the forend on, not the barrel. There a separate barrel nut under the forend, and you can't get to it with the comp on the barrel. Other than having 2 separate nuts, it's a lot like taking apart my Remington 12 gauge, with the addition of flipping a lever to get the feed ramp out of the way to remove the bolt. It tilts down into the mag well, then back up when the gun is reassembled.
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I don't know why none of the other pictures shows the gun with the RRA quad rail bottle opener on it because it's been on there awhile. This is what it looks like after painting over it with a flat black Birchwood Casey paint pen a couple of times. I have a gloss black pen too and they really come in handy for quick touch-ups. Like the kind I used to do with a permanent marker but it would rub off. Where the black arrow is in the second pic, there's an undercut area. The tapered lip works for popping crown caps off bottles, whether they're twist-off or not. On my gun it's oriented so the edge of the opener is facing down when the muzzle is pointing up. If there's a better tool for unscrewing twist-off caps I haven't seen it. It works amazingly well. It's hard to believe bottle caps have been using the same 21-tooth design for 133 years. When something works, it works, and there wasn't much need for improvement. The company, Crown Holdings, Inc., formerly Crown Cork & Seal Company, founded in 1892, claims to manufacture one out of every five beverage cans used in the world, and one out of every three food cans used in North America and Europe. There's still a press at my mom's house for putting caps on bottles. I used it once when I made root beer.
https://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_ID=1665
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crown_Holdings
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More camo Duck tape. I was using my 12 gauge bore brush but misplaced it. I only have one so I used an M16 chamber brush to scrub the bore. Only the small part that goes in the barrel extension made contact and it was a little too loose for my liking, but it worked. I was able to brush back and forth inside the bore instead of going all the way through each pass because it was too small. That finally knocked al the crud out.
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I was looking at the Duck tape on the forend and decided it needed some at the other end to help balance it out. So I wrapped a single piece around the back. I decided it still needed more camo, so I took the camo bandage off my bayonet handles and put it on. There wasn't much and it's been stretched out and reused too many times, and it wasn't going to work on the rear grip. So I put it all on the VFG, and it's well padded and comfortable to hang onto. I thought about sticking some tape on the sides of the mag well but probably won't. I may wrap the rear grip if I buy more camo bandage, but otherwise, I think I'm done messing with it.
There's a pair of CR123A batteries in the VFG to use in the WML. They're on a rubber battery sled that slides in and out and they don't rattle at all. The MFT REACT Ergonomic Vertical Grip worked really well after I ground the ridge off between the top 2 finger grooves. Since 123 batteries are 17 mm in diameter, they don't fit side by side like the 14.5mm wide AA batteries in the picture. They're 6mm wider, but they do stack one atop the other with a tiny tab of rubber in between them, on the other side of the battery sled. The rails on my gun are too narrow and I tightened the screw on the grip so far I had to put a nut on the other end where it stuck out. I would recommend both the grip and the gun. The VRF14 is only $289.00, and the pump-action VRPF14 is only $260.00 at Advanced Tactical. You could get BOTH of these American made firearms for $549. If they were any cheaper you could pass them out as party favors. ;)
https://missionfirsttactical.com/REG
https://advancedtactical.com/ria-vr-firearms/
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Maybe next year when I have some my financial matters sorted, I'll remove the screw under the camo Duck tape and finish the evolution of my not-a-shotgun into a short barrel shotgun. I combined these 2 pics so you can see how much I shortened the CAR-15 stock. It was close to 1 1/2 inches.
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This isn't a pistol, so it's not a pistol brace, but I think this is legal, since it doesn't have a stock on it and can't be shouldered. I couldn't even put the stock on over all that duck tape if I tried. Before I put the "buffer tube" part on, the stock didn't seem to have any play in it. But I have a better idea now what the length of pull will be when I go get it stocked. As near as I can tell the minimum L.O.P. will be nearly exactly 13.5", which is just about perfect for me. I don't need a 14"+ L.O.P. on a shotgun stock. Unless I butcher the stock even further, that's as short as it can get, and as long as it needs to be. It will never need to be adjusted and could be glued up solid.
If anyone has any doubt about the "firearm brace" being legal, please speak up. It would only take me a couple minutes to take it back off if I start doubting it. It might possibly be long enough to put against my side when I shoot from the hip, but I'm not sure. It's hard to get a feel for it without actually trying it.
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I had an AR rifle buffer I wasn't using anymore since I don't have a rifle stock on either lower. I ground and filed the shoulder on it flat with the adjoining area, as in the top of the first pic, right of center. I ground and filed the flared end, far right, slightly larger than that, so it just fit in the stock tube of the VRF14. Then I wrapped friction tape on the other end, right up to the edge where the rubber tip meets the metal. I actually had too much tape and took off about 3 layers, a layer at a time, until it was a very snug fit. I started the buffer into the tube, and covered it with Amazing Goop between the tape and the other end. It fit so tightly, I had to hammer it in the last 2 inches because I couldn't push it in by hand. The end of the buffer is ~1/8" from the end of the tube. I used a Birchwood Casey flat black paint pen to cover the end of the buffer. It looks like I missed a spot but I didn't.
I don't know if the moving weights in the buffer will do anything to help with recoil, but the extra weight will. I balanced the empty gun on the edge of a wooden ruler, and the balance point seems to be ~1/4" forward of the front of the mag well. A loaded mag should move the balance point right into the mag. Now there's a VRF-14 LONG with a stock and 20" barrel. It's made in the U.S.A. and the MSRP is only $358. That's even cheaper than the VR60 shotgun made in Turkey that the VRF14 is based on. You know I'll be getting one. It looks like it only comes with 1 mag, but that will be a total of 10 that I have for both guns.
PS. I have an M16A4 carry handle I can put on the shotgun, but no matching front sight. I'll have to buy one if I use the carry handle.
P.P.S. The VRF14 Long takes interchangeable stocks, meaning it can take a side-folding adaptor, like my VRF14.
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I was all excited about the VRF-14 Long and ready to order one, but it wasn't too long before another art of my brain said, Wait a minute. If I get the stock on my VRF-14, then get a VRF-14 Long, it would be 2 of the same thing, except the new one would have a 6" longer barrel, and the stock wouldn't fold. Suddenly it seemed less appealing. A NcSTAR VISM SHOTGUN GRIP ADAPTER - LEFT FOLDING STOCK ADAPTER / BLACK, is only $13.11, less than half price, at ABCSPORTZ. That would take care of that problem. But, unlike an AR, I don't think a 20" barrel offers much ballistic advantage over a 14" barrel on a 12 gauge. If my Form 1 gets turned down and I can't make an SBS out of my gun, I will probably buy the Long version and put the folding stock on it instead. Then get 1.5" trimmed off the end of the barrel.
https://abcsportz.com/ncstar-vg076-shotgun-grip-adapter-left-folding-stock-adapter-black/