The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: alfsauve on December 14, 2023, 10:13:27 AM
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Now don't get me wrong. Training is a good thing. Highly encouraged.
During the Sheepdog match. IN THE RAIN. Was I or my squad irritable all day? You betcha. At least the temp was decent for being soaking wet.
Anyway during the match one shooter expressed concern about all those people, who during Wuhan flu, ran out an bought a gun. Now some are carrying them around and haven't the foggiest notion of how, when and where to use it. Or not use it. I got not so nice looks (did I say we were irritable shooting in the rain?) when I asked:
Are you suggesting a training requirement to carry? Are you suggesting a training requirement to purchase/own?
I also asked how this was dealt with in the good old days? Before say 1968?
Thinking about my grandfather carrying his CCW in the 30's & 40's, how many "training" classes were there to be had? Besides law enforcement how many people actually got training? Oh maybe a bullseye shooter or a competitive trap/skeet shooter might seek out a lesson from an expert. But compared to today's plethora of concealed carry, legal & self-defense classes what was it like back in the day? In places where one could legally carry concealed back then, what percentage did? Is that number more or less now?
Just asking question don't hate the reporter.
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I was born and raised in Michigan! Guns were a fact of life…training was by Pops.
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This is something we are seeing more and more of among the "gun culture." Sadly, many who believe in the Second Amendment also believe that there can be limitations. How many times do you hear people at the range, or at a competition agree with restrictions and controls? How often, even outside of the training community, do you hear that training and testing should be mandatory? One of my biggest disagreements with Rob Pincus is that he is a strong believer, supporter and advocate for training as a pre-requisite to "free" use.
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In NY, they passed the concealed carry improvement act, which forces any new applicants for a carry permit to go through 16 hours of training,Plus 2 hours of live fire. The prices charged for this course vary from place to place, but the lowest I've heard of is $300.00 with the highest about that didn't happen.round $750.00 I have always argued that if the state ever required training it should be done the same as the Hunter safety courses, Free with volunteer instructors.
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But what was it like in the dark ages?
Did people feel that you shouldn't CC without training?
What training was there?
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Michigan in the 60’s and 70’s was a different mindset. I’m not sure folks felt it necessary to carry a sidearm. We were required to take basic Hunter and boater safety in Jr High I recall.
Crime and crazy weren’t as prevalent…Pops had a lil Ruger .22 wheel gun and racks o rifles.
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I think the boater safety class was after hours at the junior high school I went to, and the hunter safety class was probably the same. I think they were optional, but first aid was mandatory if I recall correctly. I was Red Cross Certified in Basic First Aid at age 11. To this day, to get a hunting license, you either need to show an old hunting license or proof you took a hunter safety course, of like me this year, sign a statement saying you took the course a long time ago.
But most education about guns, I got from my dad. I learned how to shoot, and when not to to shoot, and started hunting small game when I was a kid. I got my first shotgun and .22 rifle when I was a kid. I don't know many people who carried back then. One of my uncles was a constable in the U.P. who I hunted coyotes with on snowmobiles. He had a Beretta .380 in his pocket one day. I doubt he ever had any kind of formal training at all. One of my cousins in Pennsylvania was a bank manager and had a snub-nosed revolver he carried when he was transferring money from one bank to another. Seeing that it was Pennsylvania in the '70s, he may have had to get some kind of training.
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In NY, they passed the concealed carry improvement act, which forces any new applicants for a carry permit to go through 16 hours of training,Plus 2 hours of live fire. The prices charged for this course vary from place to place, but the lowest I've heard of is $300.00 with the highest about that didn't happen.round $750.00 I have always argued that if the state ever required training it should be done the same as the Hunter safety courses, Free with volunteer instructors.
Be careful with your comparisons. Hunting is not a protected right. If you, the State, believes that training is a prerequisite for the exercise of the right, the prerequisite must apply for all rights. Voting, public speaking, exercise of religion, etc.
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It seems odd that for hunting which isn't a protected right, the training is free, but you have to pay a high price to exercise a basic right. Someone tell me that ain't messed up.
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Exactly my point, They can decide to mandate a fee that all the instructors have to charge and then make it so only the very rich can afford it. Doing it the same as the Hunter safety classes would be more logical and fair to all classes of income. I was a Hunter safety instructor for 15 years,I would gladly get certified to teach the hand gun course as a volunteer. The various gun rights groups in this state are trying to get the law declared unconstitutional in which case it become a moot point.
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Any time there are mandates, everyone who can make a buck lines up to do so from the gubmint on down the line.
As to the OP and training, the difference today from yesteryear is mindset of use.
Way back when in my grand and great-grandparents' day using a firearm for 'whatever purpose necessary' was a given in everyday life to many. People were raised to know about and use a gun properly... whether it was to shoot supper, a rabid animal or a two-legged predator. If they could hit a tin can, they could hit a man and would do so when needed.