The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: alfsauve on July 31, 2025, 02:41:31 PM
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I love mine. I have a P320C and an X5 full size. I've competed in both USPSA, Steel Challenge and IDPA with mine. I've read the stories. Gray Guns has a good video on how, except for substituting wrong parts they can not make it fire un-commanded. I'm open minded, but mine pass all the "tests" I've seen and I'm willing to stick with them.
BUT
The storm is brewing. IDPA just banned them from their events. Four local clubs have banned them from their ranges (Cherokee(GA), Belton(SC), East Alabama(AL) and Pinetucky(GA) and my club, Riverbend, is taking up the subject at the next BoD. The lawyers are going to win out from a liability standpoint.
There's no point in trying to "dump" my P320s on the market, if there is a market. It's spilled milk. I'll hold on to them because I like them and maybe some day they'll be redeemed. WHAT DO I BUY NOW? I've got a plain jane G17 that I can use for USPSA/SCSA Production and IDPA SSP, though i don't like it. But I'm going to buy something to replace the P320Comp for CCP division. Friends are steering me towards Canik, but there are so many variations and versions. And I'm not a fan of the trigger safety, like Glock and Canik, though in looking around I'm going to have to resign myself to it. (I've had several Glock models as well as an S&W M&P triggers lock on me. Was told I'm holding the gun wrong... NOT.)
I'm thinking FN 509 Midsize. It meets all the criteria for both competitions. Reasonably priced. Good rep, as far as I know. It would be my first foray with FN. Any words of advice?
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I have an X5. I don't remember how long ago I got it but pretty much within a couple of months after the public could get them. I haven't had any issues with mine but I've less that 300-400 rounds through it to know.
FN---well, I have a first gen FNP 9MM. If you limp wrist it any at all it will become disoriented and fail to eject/feed.
I gotta say, and these are off the market now, that the cotton pickin' Ruger SR9 with the Ghost trigger connector in it is really sweet. We got Glocks...FN's....M&P's...Sigs...Kimbers...more lying around here (Canik, etc.) and none of them does better than that old SR9 with the Ghost trigger connector in it. Reset is positive and light...breaks nice. Just the heck opposite of how it comes in the box. Over 5,000 rounds on the main one and the only misfire I had was ammo related..and it was really really crappy reloaded ammo.
Plus they are a bargain...they got such a bad rap with the terrible trigger no one wanted them and you know Uncle Fudd knows nothing about changing out parts...so they are a bargain. And..mine were made for carry with rounded edges and snagless sights.
The rail is nothing special and there aren't a plethora of accessories for them as far I know. HK VP9's were Christmas present for the boys plus I have one in the tactical flavor...great guns but I keep going back to that cotton pickin' SR-9. I like guns thin and light....
However only get one if you can find the trigger connectors.
I'm just sayin'....
https://ghostinc.com/the-pistol/ghost-manufactured-parts/ghost-connectors/ruger-sr-series-trigger-bar-reset/ (https://ghostinc.com/the-pistol/ghost-manufactured-parts/ghost-connectors/ruger-sr-series-trigger-bar-reset/)
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After an airman got shot with a P320 that was setting on a desk or something, it didn't sound good for SIG. I don't know anything about competition guns, but some of the 9mm pistols I've been considering if I ever get one are Shadow Systems, FN, Canik METE, and SAR9. There's a competition version of the Shadow Systems, which is more or less a Glock with all the upgrades already done. The SAR9 Sport lists for $549.99. I don't know if it's any good, but the plain Jane version had 150,000 rounds through it in testing.
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I gotta say, and these are off the market now, that the cotton pickin' Ruger SR9 with the Ghost trigger connector in it is really sweet. We got Glocks...FN's....M&P's...Sigs...Kimbers...more lying around here (Canik, etc.) and none of them does better than that old SR9 with the Ghost trigger connector in it. Reset is positive and light...breaks nice. Just the heck opposite of how it comes in the box. Over 5,000 rounds on the main one and the only misfire I had was ammo related..and it was really really crappy reloaded ammo.
Plus they are a bargain...they got such a bad rap with the terrible trigger no one wanted them and you know Uncle Fudd knows nothing about changing out parts...so they are a bargain. And..mine were made for carry with rounded edges and snagless sights.
I have the SR9c and agree with this statement. Due to back problems I had to retire my Colt 1911 and Browning HiPower from carry duty. The SR9c is comfortable to carry and hold 10 rounds (Max capacity in NY) I also changed out some internal parts from Galloway Precision https://gallowayprecision.com/ruger/sr9-and-sr40/smooth-it-trigger-kits-for-ruger-sr9-sr9c-sr40-sr40c-sr45
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I've been following this closely, as I am down to a Sig P938 and P320/M17. I like the 320, came with 3 mags, 2 of them 22 rounders. I don't know if the local PSA range has moved on them or not, haven't been for a while as I have been under the weather, will check next week. I hope not, I really like it - hell, I like all Sigs.
I cannot get the thing to fire uncommanded, tried everything that I've seen videos on and the striker will not drop.
Sig has gone public and said there is not a problem, so yeah, Alf, there is no market for these anymore, especially after the drop issue a few years back. So I'm stuck with a $600 gun I can't sell or trade, and I can't carry it due to potential liabilities. Pull the fire control group and mount it on a wall??
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Checked gun broker today. Used P320 Compacts ~$339. Full sized ones ~$450. Dealers are holding their prices on NIB.
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Sucks, I actually liked all the ones I have played with. Not actually shot one.
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So you can get one to try cheaply now. I'll be shooting a few rounds with a friend Canik tomorrow, I'll probably ask around the competition tomorrow about FN and other replacements for SIG. Definite no to Glock & Clones thereof, and to M&P, XD, Ruger, Taurus and to Walther. Haven't really investigated H&K.
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Nice thing about the 1911, all the design bugs were worked out decades ago so it's just "maintenance and inspection." :D
And don't "boomer" me, I'll bet I'm in the youngest quartile of posters here. ;p
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I may have you beat on that one.... I am 43.
A 1911 has been on my hip for the better part of 20 years
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It’s not, at least for, a question what’s the better gun for carry or for combat. What I need is a striker fired one for competition, specifically IDPA’s SSP, ESP, CO and CCP as well as USPSA/SCSA Production and CO.
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Nice thing about the 1911, all the design bugs were worked out decades ago so it's just "maintenance and inspection." :D
And don't "boomer" me, I'll bet I'm in the youngest quartile of posters here. ;p
It's been 99 years since the A1 entered service. So, yeah. The kinks have been well straightened out. :)
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P320C with holster <$300
https://shop.gafiringline.com/sig-sauer/p320xc-w-2-mags-owb-holster-66228
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P320C with holster <$300
https://shop.gafiringline.com/sig-sauer/p320xc-w-2-mags-owb-holster-66228
Sold out!
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Seems like the USAF M18 didn’t go off by itself. As Kevin ask, how does Sig get its reputation back?
https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/your-air-force/2025/08/08/air-force-makes-arrest-in-airmans-shooting-death-involving-m18-pistol/
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And this from a blogger, Ryan. I checked my guns and they don’t do this even when wrongly assembled.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lBTx1OHCP4
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Out of an abundance of caution River Bend Gun Club has banned P320s. So two of the three semi-auto nines I own i have no place to shoot them. Expensive, historical paper weights.
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Doggone shame.
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Back to Ryan's Video and his method of assembly. The disassembly levers on all my guns, that have them, are very tight. I would never have thought to do it the way he did. For those who didn't watch the video. The OFFICIAL, APPROVED method to reassemble a P320 is to slide the slide onto the frame and lock it back with the Slide Lock Lever. THEN and only then do you rotate the Takedown Lever. Ryan was skipping the step where you lock the slide back first. He were pushing the slide to the rear and flipping the Takedown Lever without locking the slide to the rear. There's a problem with this design, but this isn't the same as un-commanded discharges. His guns releases the striker after a reset, with the TRIGGER FULLY to the REAR, by wiggling the slide. More akin to a double.
My two P320s (a Carry and an X5 version) won't fire at all if you do this. The trigger won't go fully to the rear at all. You can clear it by just LOCKING the slide back, no need for full re-disassembly.
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The fix for one problem at least is RTFM. Who'd a thunk it?
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I may have you beat on that one.... I am 43.
A 1911 has been on my hip for the better part of 20 years
45, been packing mine a little over 20. :)
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I carried my 1911 for 34 years before switching to a SR9c due to back problems. I still have it, but just a range toy now.
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I have resigned from the house of
Slytherin, I mean SIG and have joined the house of Ravenclaw, FNH.
The closest replacement for the P320Compact I found was the FN 509. They have a Full Size, a Compact and one in between, a Midsize. I took a 3D printed IDPA CCP box to the store and the Midsize fit so that what I got. Black with the optics mount plates. (FN 509M MRD) I considered, Ruger, Walther, Canik, M&P, XD and some others but the 509 won out. Later I might add the Fullsize for use as a Production or SSP gun. Meanwhile the Midsize will serve not only CCP but CO as well.
Looked at Bud's and Good Guys but by the time you add shipping and credit card fees and FFL transfer on this end I got it for the same at the local store, Adventure Outdoors. They had an unadvertised sale, $729 on the label, but it rang up for $699.99. I paid cash so no cc fees. $742 out the door. PLUS it fits in the P320 holsters AND, I think, my Dawson, adjustable FO sights from my P320 also fit the FN. Yeah.
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I like the looks of FN 5 series pistols. If I ever get into shooting a suppressed centerfire I'd like to get a FN 545 Tactical. It's a .45 ACP with a mag capacity of 15 or 18 rounds. There are very few personal problems that can't be solved by 18+1 rounds of .45 ACP. ;)
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I double checked mine today. No problems with spurious action on the firing pin despite being hammered and dropped.
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The Dawson FO sights from my P320 fit perfectly on the 509. Makes sense the 509 would be very close to the Sig since both were developed for the Modular Handgun program. If it ever got so bad the military felt they needed a replacement, FN would be the choice.
Too bad the magazine catches are different. I think otherwise my old Sig mags would fit. With the right jig/tool I think the Sig mags could be converted. Too bad that’s a little beyond my machining capabilities. Hmm…. If I design a plastic model of the jig I wonder if I could get someone at a maker space to mill it for me?
Not as front heavy as the Sig, interestingly. Off th rest fire it today.
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I have yet to find anything online that I can reproduce to create an uncommanded firing, so I am keeping my P320/P17. Ever since the arrest of the other airman in this case, the whole "P320 is haunted and fires all by itself" thing is just that -- a thing. Granted Sig has not handled it well, and that does disturb me on a human level, but the gun is - as we always tell people - an inanimate object.
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I'm keeping my P320s as well. I just can use them at my range nor in any competition, hence the FN 509.
As you probably know it turns out not to be an uncommanded discharge. The Airman was actually shot by another Airman, probably horsing around at the end of a shift. Involuntary Manslaughter and Filing a False Report charges are pending.
It's not a good month to be an Airman at FE Warren AFB. Another Airman was shot and killed last weekend. Off base, but by a fellow Airman, with an AK-47. Alcohol was involved it appears.
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Alcohol and gunpowder don't mix.
Says the guy with bottle openers on three of his guns. :)
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Milspin made a Drop Safe Slide Back Plate (Limited Release) for Glock pistols. :D It's available in Black on Brass, and Black on Stainless.
https://milspin.com/products/drop-safe-slide-back-plate-limited-release-copy?_pos=1&_psq=drop&_ss=e&_v=1.0&variant=43467438882858
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If think a gun is drop safe, try dropping on your bare toes.
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;D Not even Nerf guns are drop safe. ;D
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Great range test of my FN 509. 150 rounds flawsley through it. I have installed blocks inside the 15 round mags to limit them to 11. Now you may ask yourself, “WHY? IDPA limits CCP division to 10 rounds in the mag when the start signal sounds. 10 plus the one in the chamber, hence 11. Helps keep me from putting in too many and getting a penalty. Also, it compresses the mag spring so on my last round the spring is compressed like there are five more in the mag. Might, MIGHT, cut down on potential FTF last round. Also, if I were a real gamer I’d make them out of metal to add weight to the gun and to speed up magazine drops.
But let me be clear, FN mags are well designed with clearly visible witness holes for every round. Unlike Sig which only had holes at 12 & 15. And unlike Glock which aren’t easy to see which hole is covered.
The Dawson FO sights from my P320 are a perfect fit. Only problem was I put the short front sight on instead of the tall one. So the gun shot high. Have swapped it out so all good now.
My P320 holsters fit perfectly just by loosening the set screws a turn.
I’m ready to go now. The Midsize is a perfect compromise between the Comapct and the Full size. I can use it in SSP, CCP, and CO divisions of IDPA as well as all pistol divisions of USPSA/Steel except the 1911 one.
Looking at all the recommendations from the forums, I didn’t realize how many models didn’t make the IDPA requirements. Wather PDP are too tall, Canik’s are too wide.
Only negative is the cost and availability of mags. The Compact and Full size are more popular models and hence more availability of parts. I try to stay OEM with mags, but I’m going to have to give ProMag a try.since they’re half the cost. I think I can buy the 15 round Compact mag and just remove the sleeve. Worst case is replace the baseplate. Oh, who do I know can 3D print their own? Oh, me.
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I bought 2 10-round ProMags for my P10-45. They were both such junk I smashed them with a sledgehammer and threw them in the trash where they belonged. Since then I've only bought 2 more ProMags, a 10-round and a 15-round mag for my Ruger LCP, but haven't tried them out yet. If they work, cool. Maybe I'll get a 32-round drum just for S&G. And if they don't work, hammer time! All of my 6 and 7 round mags are genuine Ruger brand. I won't waste my money on ProMag brand in stock sizes. I should take my LCP and all my mags with me when I go up north this weekend.
https://promagindustries.com/ruger-lcp-380-acp-10-rd-blue-steel/
https://promagindustries.com/ruger-lcp-380acp-15-rd-blue-steel/
https://promagindustries.com/ruger-lcp-380acp-32-rd-black-polymer-drum/
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I'm leary of 3rd party mags, though I do have TandemKross for my 10/22.
BUT at $50/ea for FN mags vs $17.99 for ProMag, I'm going to risk it.
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I would definitely risk it. I've never had an issue with ProMag products. I've purchased them for CZ's and Rugers. Maybe even 1911's...old I can't rememememebbbbeerrrr.
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You pays yer money and takes your chances. Let us know how the ProMags work out Alf.
I bought 2 other ProMags. They were 20-round .45 ACP mags for my Para-Ordnance pistols. I threw away the weak springs that were in the new mags and replaced them with ISMI Springs Para-Ordnance 170mm Magazine Springs. Manufactured from Chrome Silicon alloy these springs are designed to take less initial “set” to enable a more stable load and increased service life. This 13 coil spring for use in Para magazines up to 170mm length. I also threw away the cheap-looking magazine followers and baseplates, and replaced them with genuine Para-Ordnance parts. After replacing everything except the magazine tubes, they work okay in my full-size pistol, with most ammo that works in my other mags, but not as well, and not will all the same ammo. I was also testing out a 20-pound recoil spring at the time, and it may have worked better if I switched back to an 18.5 pound spring. I haven't tried them in the other 2 pistols yet.
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RE springs. I plug competition mags to limit their capacity. In the case of IDPA CCP division 11 rounds. The rules limit you to 10 rounds at the start signal, plus one in the chamber. The plug adds weight to the gun and also helps the mag fall out quicker. And it compresses the spring. In essence my last shot from mag, the spring is still compressed like there’s 5 more rounds to go. Mitigates weak spring problems causing Failure to Feed.
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2 of the ProMags showed up Look okay, but am disappointed about several things. Not show stoppers just medium level nits.
First, no witness holes. Nada. It would be nice to at least have one at 10. Am thinking about drilling my own.
Second, neither the floor plate, nor the base plate are compatible with the FN magazines. Reverse that, none of the FN floor plates, base plates or plugs fit the ProMag magazine. If you wanted to use some 3rd party base plates designed for FN you're out of luck.
So I've retailored/reprinted my plugs so they fit the PM magazine. I ended up with them limiting the mags to exactly 10 rounds. I'll have the 2 FN mags that will hold 11 so I'll use those as my first mag on each stage.
Next week I'll spend some more range time. Probably do a bunch of 5x5 drills (stage 3 of the IDPA classifier) and see how they hold up. When I get some additional mags I may do a 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1 drill. Good practice for changing mags and subjects the mags to repetitions of last-round-hold-open-reload cycle.
I may hold off on drilling a witness hole until after I shoot an IDPA match with this gun in 2 weeks. It's a bunch of work setting up a jig and drilling the holes and cleaning the burrs. CCP isn't my primary division so might be a year before I use this rig again. Not a great payback.
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My 10 and 15 round ProMags for the LCP are loaded in the car, ready to go when I get my stuff together. I was supposed to leave Saturday, then Sunday to avoid the insane Saturday traffic, but I felt sick and slept all day. Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) oversees and is responsible for nearly 10,000 miles of state highways, which carry more than 50% of all traffic and approximately 70% of commercial traffic in Michigan. The state removed lane restrictions for 100 of 164 projects starting at 3 p.m. Friday, Aug. 29 until Tuesday morning, Sept. 2. But Labor Day weekend is still among the busiest travel times of the year. Usually I-75 is bumper to bumper for 100 miles with idiots cutting in and out of multiple lanes of traffic at high speed without signalling. No matter what lane you're in or what speed you go, it's bad, and I end up white-knuckling it so bad my hands hurt by the time I get where I'm going. So I thought Sunday sounded better. Now that my friend is retired maybe we'll go Wednesday or Thursday before Labor Day and avoid the holiday rush.
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Shot in an 8 stage local IDPA match with the FN 509 today. It ran well. Me not so much.
I used the two FN mags as my first mag loaded with 11 rounds and the Promags for the reloads (10 rounds).Had no issues with either mags or the gun. When I did my part accuracy good.
I don’t shoot semi’s often so it was good to have a Quiqqly moment. Having 10 rounds sure make stage planning different.
Two take always, but no hurry. I could use an extended mag release but am not paying $75, so I will build out an extension for the stock release. I will also build a jig so I can drill two witness holes in the Promags for 10 & 11. Just comforting to be able to tell if the mag is fully loaded or not.
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Ordered a stock replacement ambi mag release. (Should have ordered a left side only... more later)
Cleaver design FN has for holding the ambi-mag release in place. Once mastered it's pretty easy to do. Cleaned up the left side release button, degreased it, ran wire brush over it. Then wrapped it with a strip of Gaff tape forming a pocket. Took about a pea sized, may butter bean, piece of Bondo and tamped it in the "mold". Tamp, tamp, tamp. Let it cure. Removed the taped the sanded/filed the Bondo till I have an 1/8" extension. Brings it out enough so it's above the level of the grip. Makes changing mags so much easier.
Uh-oh. No the gun is too wide to comply with IDPA CCP specs. Wait, it's too wide because the ambi-mag release is too wide. Huh. Ground down the right side button, dunked it in cold bluing then buffed it a little. See I should have ordered a non-ambi release. What a difference 1/8" makes. Don't know when I'll run it in IDPA, but I'm ready now.