The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Ksail101 on October 14, 2008, 11:40:08 AM
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I dont know where this topic fits in as a catagory and I know that this forum mostly deals with the shooting\recreation side of firearms use, but I, as all here know by now I have a .357 levergun, want to know about the .357 mag's ability and use for hunting.
Have any of you ever hunted with a .357 pistol or rifle? if so what, and I feel total confidence, as do others I have spoken to, that within a 100 yards it is a formidable deer cartridge, but I would like to hear more thoughts on this and stories of accomplishing this task.
Also besides deer loading up with .38's in said rifle/pistol is the hunting of small game ok? I would like to do Rabbit, Raccoon, and Coyote hunting this year.
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Your .357 will do the job for deer. As far as rabbits,coons and even coyote, your hooked up!!
With the new Hornady Flex Tip you'll have all you need to do the job.
.357 140gr. (18"barrel)
1850 velocity at the muzzle - 1632 at 50yds - 1438 at 100yds - 1272 at 150yrds
I have .357 mag pistol and used it on rabbits and coyotes. Hunted coyotes at night and didn't shot anything past 50yrds.
Give it a go and report back on how it does.
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A .357 magnum will work on whitetails nicely.
A friends dad has taken several whitetails with a .357 magnum loaded with handloads. I can't remember the load data, though.
I think he was using a scoped T/C Contender with a 10" barrel. He also carried a Ruger GP-100 for backup.
I do know that all shots were less than 75 yards.
Best of luck to you.
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The .357 mag will kill white tails nicely, the only caveat, is with less than 180 bullets, the bullet might not exit, and you will have little or no blood trail to follow, IF they run.
Complete agreement with the smaller game, good choice.
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Here's a couple of sites for good ammo:
https://dakotaammo.net/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_53&products_id=80
https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=9e32b52d8581baad00ac642deda8358c&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=60c538f7b741f0a880b7fb27021cd85e
http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/loaded-ammunition/
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Here's where you go for no BS ammo.
http://www.buffalobore.com/
180 gr. LFN-GC (1400 fps ME 783 ft. lbs.) Per Box of 20
$25.40
18.5 inch Marlin 1894
a. Item 19A/20-180gr. Hard Cast = 1851 fps
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Sweet thanks!!!!
Yeah I have heard great things about the LeveRevolution from Hornady and even watched the video on their website, which is really cool, but I will definately check out everything you guys have sent me as well.
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Many of the major manufacturers make .357 ammo designed specifically for hunting.... might want to give them a look.
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you know when you actually look at the numbers for 357 out of a rifle and 30-30. they are not far off( atleast from the factory.
example:
rem core lock 150 grainers( I would bet that more deer have been killed with this the any other loading on the market.)
Muzzle Velocity: 2390 fps
Muzzle Energy: 1902 ft. lbs.
now the BB 158 grainer
c. Item 19C/20-158gr. Speer Uni Core = 2153 fps my math says thats 1626
thats only around 15% diffrence... now I know BB actually test thier stuff in real guns( my exp has been thier numbers are right on), not test barrels. I am unsure of how rem tests thier ammo.
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Interesting information from TAB. I have heard for years that the 30-30 has killed more deer than any other round.
Looked up .357 Mag on the Sierra reloading manual. They use a Marlin 1894 and show the 158 gr JHC and JSP bullets in a rifle load. Max velocity they show is 1800 fps with energy at 1136. Sierra does load conservatively. What I am curious about is the differences in downrange performance between the 30-30 rifle bullet and .357 handgun bullet. Though not very popular, the .357 has been considered a good, short range caliber for deer for quite some time.
Looked at the BB website information, very interesting.
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I would say that the ranges at which you would use a open sited gun in 30-30 ( less then 150 yds, most likly less then 75) you would not really see a diffrence in the two if you used simlar bullets.
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I would say that the ranges at which you would use a open sited gun in 30-30 ( less then 150 yds, most likly less then 75) you would not really see a diffrence in the two if you used simlar bullets.
I used a 30-30 for years and yes, they have been one of the most prolific deer cartridges mainly because the Winchester 1894 was chambered for the 30-30 Winchester and they still sell an equivalent rifle today. I would never take a shot outside of 100 yards with mine but in the northern Michigan woods, you didn't need too!
The differences are major between the two calibers and here's the numbers right off the Federal ammo site.
30-30 Win, 170 gr - Average Range 100 yards - Velocity is 1900 fps @100 yds - Energy of 1400 ft/lbs @ 100 yds
.357 Mag, 180 gr - Average Range 25 yds - Velocity is 1000 fps @ 25 yds - Energy of 400 ft/lbs @ 25 yds - Bullet Drop @ 100 yds is 9" and 10mph cross wind will push that bullet nearly 4"...
There is no comparison. Obviously barrel length will make some differences but outside of 25-30 yards the .357 loses too much energy and it drops fast!
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Timothy,
You are way off. The bullet out of a rifle is MUCH different.
Federal 180 grain hp
1550 fps at the muzzel / 1282 at 100 yards. Energy is 960 at the muzzel / 657 at 100 yards.
If you zero at 50 yards (don't know why you wouldn't zero at 100) it only drops 2.9 inches at 100 and wind drift at 100 yards for 10mph cross wind is 3.5 inches
Here is the 30/30 for comparason.
170 grain rnsp
2200 at the muzzel 1895 at 100 yards. Enery at the muzzel is 1827 / 1355
50 yard zero drops 2 inches at 100 yards and drifts 2 inches at 100 yards
To put it another way.....
Do you think you could kill a deer at 5 yards with a .357 handgun? If so then you should have no trouble at 100 yards from a rifle as it has More velocity and More energy at 100 that a handgun does at the muzzel.
Handgun (180 hp) muzzel 1080 and 466 ft pounds.
And if you zero that rifle in at 100 yards it is 1.4 high at 50 yards, 2.6 low at 125 and 6.7 low at 150. And even at 150 yards ( 1177 / 554 ) there is still more velocity and energy than a handgun at the muzzel
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I'm not arguing Haz...I assumed he meant .357 handgun hunting!
I agree the same round out of carbine would be much better suited and comparable to the 30-30. I was mearly quoting right from Federals velocity/energy charts off their website. An expert I'm not and I defer to all y'alls experience.... 8)
Tim
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Tim,
You probably didn't know but Ksail has a PUMA .357 lever rifle. Didn't mean to sound like I was jumping down yer throat (sorry!).
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Tim,
You probably didn't know but Ksail has a PUMA .357 lever rifle. Didn't mean to sound like I was jumping down yer throat (sorry!).
No apology necessary, we are all friends here...I learn more and more every day and a day without learning something is a wasted one!
T
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Tim,
You probably didn't know but Ksail has a PUMA .357 lever rifle. Didn't mean to sound like I was jumping down yer throat (sorry!).
I just googled PUMA .357 and Ksails gun porn pictures came up. Nice rifle Ksail and forgive me but the light bulb above my head is slow on the uptake.... ::) Kind of like those flourescent ones that take a while to warm up.....
Oh, and thanks for your service Trooper!!!...
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357 Rifle: 158 Grain JSP Remington UMC's do fine Job with Whitetail
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The 170 grain Gold Dot Soft Point should do quite well. First they take a Gold Dot Hollow Point and then they close it up to make it into a soft point so it penetrates deeper and opens up slower. The higher velocity you get in a rifle should make them open up faster than a handgun but still penetrate deeply.
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Hey Tim- thank you for the kind words
And I have some UMC JSP .357s (i believe 158 gr) here at the house and blasted a few off this last weekend and they definately had some pop to them. I have ran about 4 different kinds of ammo through my rifle and all have fired and fed fine. (Have I mentioned I much I love that rifle lately. Me and M&M are actually laying in bed here watching The Searchers.) ;D
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It's nice to hear that the Puma is really working for you Ksail. I've really wanted one of those myself for a long time. I think it's a great caliber for all around protection, eatin' (if you have to) etc., and you can stuff those rounds in your revolver as well. Good all around.
Someday....
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It's nice to hear that the Puma is really working for you Ksail. I've really wanted one of those myself for a long time. I think it's a great caliber for all around protection, eatin' (if you have to) etc., and you can stuff those rounds in your revolver as well. Good all around.
Someday....
Doomsday gun/caliber
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Am I the only one here who wants a .357 Maximum lever gun? I think it would be easy to convert a Winchester 94 .357 Magnum since it was designed to handle rifle length cartridges. I don't know for sure which rifles could or could not be converted over.
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Confused, I am. Maximum or Magnum?
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Confused, I am. Maximum or Magnum?
.357 Maximum was the first of the "super" calibers, it's 1/16 inch longer than the Magnum, Ruger came out with it in the Blackhawk in the early 80's but they had trouble with it eroding the top strap at the cylinder gap so they discontinued it. Calibers like .454 and .500 S&W were not possible until that problem was overcome. (I don't know what they did to eliminate the problem.) As far as I know the only current source of ammo is handloading, and I don't think any other fire arms were chambered for it.
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Something like a 'super 45 colt' I heard of.
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Yes, a .357 magnum magnum.
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.357 Maximum was the first of the "super" calibers, it's 1/16 inch longer than the Magnum, Ruger came out with it in the Blackhawk in the early 80's but they had trouble with it eroding the top strap at the cylinder gap so they discontinued it. Calibers like .454 and .500 S&W were not possible until that problem was overcome. (I don't know what they did to eliminate the problem.) As far as I know the only current source of ammo is handloading, and I don't think any other fire arms were chambered for it.
More like 5/16 of an inch longer than the .357 Magnum. The .357 Maximum AKA .357 Super Magnum is more than twice as powerful as the .357 Magnum. Dan Wesson made revolvers for it too and some included an extra barrel in case it wore out. Thompson Center and some other companies made single shot pistols for it. The gas cutting problems were mostly from people trying to make hyper-velocity handloads with 110 and 125 grain bullets instead of the 158 and 180 grain bullets it was designed for. It works great in Contenders and other single shot pistols. Brand new ammo is available in nine different loads from 140 - 225 grains from Reeds Ammo http://www.reedsammo.com/ and remanufactured ammo is available from Precision Cartridge, Inc. http://www.precisioncartridge.com/ in original R-P cases. It was designed for silhouette shooting and hunting and works great for both. Out of a 10" Contender the muzzle energy is higher than most .44 Magnum loads and about equal to an M16 rifle/M4 carbine. Out of a rifle length barrel it would be an excellent caliber for deer size game. Anything the .44 Magnum does the .357 Maximum does with a flatter trajectory.
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I stand corrected ;D but I KNOW that T/C is no longer making a barrel for this caliber as I worked on more than 1/2 the center fire barrels they manufactured between 01 and 04 (first shift was 8 hr's and kind of slow, I worked 10 hr's and went for count ;D) and never ran across a batch of them. If you are looking for a barrel for this, or any other non standard caliber, I remember seeing special orders come through for a Contender /Encore collectors group that made group purchases of odd calibers and barrel lengths. I forget the name of the group but a google search should find them.
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I had a .357 maximum in a Wichita international, looks like a 1911 frame, but a tip up barrel, 10", wish I still had it, 180 grains bullets at 1600 fps, chronographed, 158 - 160 grain, 1800 fps, 125's over 2000 fps.
The ruger was called the SRM. True, TC and Dan Wesson both offered this caliber.
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.357 REM MAX is one of over 50 Contender calibers still available from the custom shop but mine is an original TC factory barrel. The blue barrel looks a little odd on my stainless pistol but it was all I could find at the time. I shoot Maximum, Magnum, and .38 Special out of it and it's good for anything from small game to deer. They also make a .357/44 BAIN & DAVIS Contender barrel. It's about equal in power to the .357 Maximum and brass is cheap. All you do is run .44 Magnum brass into a resizing die. http://www.tcarms.com/customShop/chart_contender_pistol.php
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Do you guys know of any .357 ammo that can generate 1000 pounds of energy at 100 yards fired from an 18" barrell?
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Do you guys know of any .357 ammo that can generate 1000 pounds of energy at 100 yards fired from an 18" barrell?
You will need a bigger caliber