The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on May 31, 2007, 05:14:43 PM
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I got this from a friend of mine...
It isn't a gun issue, , but I still had to pass it on..
I'm self employed, so I don't have to do this.. but I still agree 100%.
"Like a lot of folks in this state I have a job. I work, they pay me. I pay
my taxes and the government distributes my taxes as it sees fit. In order
To get that paycheck, I am required to pass a random urine test, with which I
have no problem.
What I do have a problem with is the distribution of my taxes to people who
don't have to pass a urine test.
Shouldn't one have to pass a urine test to GET a welfare check because I have to pass one to earn it for them??
Please understand, I have no problem with helping people get back on their
feet. I do on the other hand have a problem with helping someone who is sitting on
their ass.
Could you imagine how much money the state would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check??!??!?
Something has to change in this country and soon!!!!! "
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I think a law should be passed that all Federal, State and Local legislators, all Governors and Mayors, and their subordinates, and the US President, VP, the President's cabinet and advisers, all the members of the President's administration, etc. must take and be required to pass mandatory random urine testing as well as passing a mandatory urine test prior to moving into any of the afore mentioned "Public Service" positions?
That law could only be passed by public referendum, because few in the above categories would pass or support that law.
That law might also "clean house" because many "Public Servants" would not want to be treated the same way as the public that they serve is treated.
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I think a law should be passed that all Federal, State and Local legislators, all Governors and Mayors, and their subordinates, and the US President, VP, the President's cabinet and advisers, all the members of the President's administration, etc. must take and be required to pass mandatory random urine testing as well as passing a mandatory urine test prior to moving into any of the afore mentioned "Public Service" positions . . .?
I agree whole-heartedly. However, when this does happen, we should all increase our investments in "D-Wipes", or any other product designed to remove lead from . . Oh, wait. That's the wrong side ???
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agree 100%....and that law would wipout most of the "Massholes" goverment. There wouldn't be a Kennedy in sight. AHHHHH what a happy thought. ;D
just saying man
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Ron Paul seems to be the only one that is running for president who would agree.
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Could you imagine how much money the state would save if people
had to pass a urine test to get a public assistance check??!??!?
Something has to change in this country and soon!!!!! "[/b]
I agree it is wrong for people on drugs to receive the assistance that many do. Though I have also read it that it is cheaper to give them the money and or assistance than to cut them off. The argument was that cutting them off would create a much larger and costlier demand on other public service agencies. They said statistics show crime would skyrocket, overcrowding of jails and prisons, extra law enforcement officers would be needed, prices on consumer goods would go up to cover the increase in shoplifting, and auto insurance would go up due to an increase of theft.
I don't know how true these examples are, but they sound at least somewhat valid. I would be in favor of cutting off assistance to drug users, and then figuring out better ways to deter crime.
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Urine tests violate the 4th and 5th amendments. How can we scream for our 2d amendment rights on one hand and violate these 2 on the other. People on various types of assistance either need some temporary help through a problem or they are leeches Wether they use drugs or not.
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No one has to take a urine test... and no one has to get a government check.
It's all voluntary.
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No one has to take a urine test... and no one has to get a government check.
It's all voluntary.
Then "parking lot gun bans are OK, you don't HAVE to work there. Quit being a hypocrite, you can't have it both ways.
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Toms right! However, since it is here and I have to take them (work in transportation) Why the hell shouldn't they ???
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Toms right! However, since it is here and I have to take them (work in transportation) Why the hell shouldn't they ???
All or none sounds fair enough.
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I believe it would be ok in either one of two cases:
1. As a condition of receiving their welfare with no arrest or prosecution attached;
2. If they were made aware of the consequences of failing the test and took it anyway.
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I think thats how it works for "Pre - employment screening"
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I don't need someone to take a urine test to know that they are a "dope". Seriously, it does violate our rights. I thought I was innocent till proven guilty, not the other way around. By the way I get test at my job.
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I have to laugh at all the people that want to have urinalysis as a condition for welfare, I bet that would be a well run program. I bet it would be as honest and reliable as the welfare system itself, not to mention the cost of each test. I can imagine how happy the bureaucrats would be to that have to pull that duty. Imagine how much less effort they would put into the other things they do as a result.
As far as drug tests go, I don't really think most people have any idea how rampant hard drug use is in the US. It is in EVERY neighborhood and most likely 1 out of 5 people you know is on drugs(and not marijuana.) The wastewater after treatment tests, that are most likely to become mandatory in the near future, for most waste water systems ( due to environmental concerns) are EYE OPENING !!!!!!!! As are the air quality testing machines ability now to pick up illegal substances(and what and how much they are picking up.)
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I have to laugh at all the people that want to have urinalysis as a condition for welfare, I bet that would be a well run program. I bet it would be as honest and reliable as the welfare system itself, not to mention the cost of each test. I can imagine how happy the bureaucrats would be to that have to pull that duty. Imagine how much less effort they would put into the other things they do as a result.
As far as drug tests go, I don't really think most people have any idea how rampant hard drug use is in the US. It is in EVERY neighborhood and most likely 1 out of 5 people you know is on drugs(and not marijuana.) The wastewater after treatment tests, that are most likely to become mandatory in the near future, for most waste water systems ( due to environmental concerns) are EYE OPENING !!!!!!!! As are the air quality testing machines ability now to pick up illegal substances(and what and how much they are picking up.)
From FoxNews just this morning...
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,336286,00.html
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Then "parking lot gun bans are OK, you don't HAVE to work there. Quit being a hypocrite, you can't have it both ways.
As being one if the medical officers at the casino I work in I have to administer these test and you can look at it two ways )1 Mandatory an keep yu job or )2 voluntary leave your job, with economics the way that they are you choose. But I agree with Tom you can"t pick and choose what amendment you want to support. you need to support the whole constitution as I look at it one amendment follows the other to support the other.
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I don't need someone to take a urine test to know that they are a "dope". Seriously, it does violate our rights. I thought I was innocent till proven guilty, not the other way around. By the way I get test at my job.
Take the test and prove yourself innocent I have seen to many people hurt or killed at work because some a$$hole decided that he had to get "high"!If people want to risk their life on it well that's fine with me but DON'T risk mine or others . You do NOT have that right.
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Take the test and prove yourself innocent I have seen to many people hurt or killed at work because some a$$hole decided that he had to get "high"!If people want to risk their life on it well that's fine with me but DON'T risk mine or others . You do NOT have that right.
Some of the best Sheet metal workers I've worked with have been stoned 90% of the time, The most dangerous have not. The only person I KNOW of killed by a co-worker was killed by an overbearing A$$hole supervisor. If you want to violate my constitutional right to privacy, then the rules of fair play say I can disregard your free speech and free press by telling you to shut up because you are a brain washed hypocrite.
Why do you think people sit back while the second amendment is eroded, it's because they are conditioned to except that "NANNY " knows best, "It's for safety", "It's for the children", it's the basics of brain washing, and it's bullshit. Shut up, wake up and learn, Professor Tom is going to explain the world. It starts small, Back in the days when personal honor meant something if a "peace activist"( this is strictly for illustration) called a military Officer a "baby killer" that was an offense against his honor and he was EXPECTED to defend it like a virgins chastity, first he would seek an immediate apology failing that a challenge would be issued, and arrangements as to time place and weapons would be arranged by Representatives called "Seconds" at the meeting another opportunity for apology would be offered, Then , that having failed the 2 parties would face each other and exchange shots, the results judged to be the judgment of God, (It goes back to the Medieval concept of "Trial by Combat") But this could be inconvenient, as when the Vice President Alexander Hamilton was killed by the former Treasury secretary Aaron Burr, the Navy also found they were losing to many up and coming Junior officers to these "Affairs of Honor", so first it was publicly frowned upon then Eventually (after the public had been sufficiently conditioned) outlawed. Nowadays we have reporters media etc portraying anyone they don't like in the most vile terms and the victim has little or no recourse depending on circumstances. (For an example see the thread about Ms. Aguilar.) Now we have done away with killing to defend honor, politicians see that there is no need to BE honorable, that one took a while to sink in, but it did. jumping ahead we have Hitler saying that "a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth" These words were spoken at a time when people still believed Decatur's toast, "My country, May she always be right, But my country right or wrong" . This was the generation that banded together to DESTROY 2 regimes that thought they knew what was best for everyone else, Imperial Japan did not decide one day to see how they could kill as many people as possible in Asia, The Nazi's truly believed that they were saving Germany from Soviet Russia, They just needed a little more land, a few more resources," Honestly, It's for the good of everyone." What no one admitted at the time was that our own society was under attack by home grown followers of Marx (Karl, not Groucho) and Lenin (V.L. not John) They found that they were ridiculed and ignored under their own banner so they infiltrated the democratic party and started pushing for more government control here, a little regulation there, all the time telling the gullible," It's for your own good" these socialists infiltrated education, ("get them young and they are ours forever" V.I.Lenin) First they got rid of corporal punishment, then they got rid of prayer, then they got rid of the pledge of allegiance, then they got rid of the grading system, then they got rid of personal responsibility, No one is to blame for their actions, they are all "Victims" of a syndrome, of economics, of their environment,.Each time, they whittled away a little more at the fabric of America, undermine the constitution a little here, set a precedent there,challenge common sense some where else with some convoluted word games. The point that you pro whiz testers have missed is that people have been working drunk or stoned since the beginning of time, the MEN who built America sent kids to get them PAILS of beer for lunch, America was Declared, designed, built and defended by a bunch of shit faced Colonials intoxicated intellectuals, drunk laborers, and sloshed soldiers. But when the technology to ,supposedly, test for such substances came along the socialist "Do gooders saw a chance to undermine more of the Peoples "Unalienable rights" 1) 4th amendment "The right of the PEOPLE to be SECURE in their persons......shall NOT be violated, unless someone in that industry MIGHT use (Oh horror) drugs (EEEEK !) 2)5th amendment "No person shall be compelled to be a witness against himself, unless "it's for his own good, HONEST" 3) 4th amendment ..."no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause"... unless its "for the children".The problem is not drugs and alcohol, A good safe worker will work safely if he's stoned, drunk, or whatever, the problem is know it all irresponsible assholes who are a danger at the best of times. "Oh, I killed that car load of kids because of alcohol", NO you killed that car load of kids because you are an irresponsible ass. Don't blame drugs or alcohol for the people who do not use them responsibly. If your co worker wants to smoke a joint on the weekend THAT IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS, if he does bad work, or is irresponsible it does not matter if he is a teetotaler, get rid of him. And you have bought the bullshit they are using to take your guns, your country, and your way of life.
Be advised, We are coming to get your Drivers License, You have key board marks on your fingers, obviously you text while driving and are not fit for OUR roads, Also you WILL submit to a "Cell phone ear impression test" before your license will be returned,do you know how many people are killed and injured by drivers talking on cell phones. Neither do I but I bet it's more than killed by drunk or stoned co- workers
(Hazcat, ieSpell check corrected my spelling of "shit faced" ;D )
This might not be as coherent as usual but I've been up since 10 AM Weds. and its now after 4am Thursday, GOOD NIGHT!
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Coherent enough, Tom, and right on!!
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I have always thought that teachers and doctors should have to pass a drug test. Before I had to retire due to illness I was a union pipline welder. Not only did we have to take a urine test but at any time they could call us for one more.Not only that , but every weld is x-rayed. Most the time two mistakes and your fired. what if they did that to doctors? Welds can be repaired .
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I have always thought that teachers and doctors should have to pass a drug test. Before I had to retire due to illness I was a union pipline welder. Not only did we have to take a urine test but at any time they could call us for one more.Not only that , but every weld is x-rayed. Most the time two mistakes and your fired. what if they did that to doctors? Welds can be repaired .
your union did not have the clout of the AMA which is basically the medical union.
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Tom, I could care less about the joint someone smokes its the total mind bending drugs that have got me and my friends hurt by the the people using them : example- the jerk who was one a Hi-Lo that was equipped to handle large rolls of paper 12' 2000 lb rolls and was " high '" had set id down and when a coworker walked up to him to tell him he had to put it somewhere else the "high" guy said watch this and hit the lever that causes the roll to rotate flipping the Hi-Lo over and on to the other Guy killing him. Wheres his right to life? Where is his family's right to pursue happiness? And no this is NOT the first or last time I have seen people hurt by drugs . When I worked as a LEO for the city of Detroit I had been in houses that were almost bare of food, basic living appliances ( stove , refrigerators, beds) just to name a few that had been sold so the PARENTS could buy drugs while their children could sleep on the floor while the starved so mommy and daddy could go out and use the food stamps to buy more drugs, Is that their constitutional right. I DON'T THINK SO! Buy the way the court in this fine state did not take the children away and one of them died two years later. Good nite and have a fine sleep!
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Tom, I could care less about the joint someone smokes its the total mind bending drugs that have got me and my friends hurt by the the people using them : example- the jerk who was one a Hi-Lo that was equipped to handle large rolls of paper 12' 2000 lb rolls and was " high '" had set id down and when a coworker walked up to him to tell him he had to put it somewhere else the "high" guy said watch this and hit the lever that causes the roll to rotate flipping the Hi-Lo over and on to the other Guy killing him. Wheres his right to life? Where is his family's right to pursue happiness? And no this is NOT the first or last time I have seen people hurt by drugs . When I worked as a LEO for the city of Detroit I had been in houses that were almost bare of food, basic living appliances ( stove , refrigerators, beds) just to name a few that had been sold so the PARENTS could buy drugs while their children could sleep on the floor while the starved so mommy and daddy could go out and use the food stamps to buy more drugs, Is that their constitutional right. I DON'T THINK SO! Buy the way the court in this fine state did not take the children away and one of them died two years later. Good nite and have a fine sleep!
Check the PM I sent you. But I hate to point out to you that urine tests only detect, Alcohol, pot, cocaine, and opiates, like heroin or poppy seeds, also, Advil, among other things will give a false positive for pot. Truly mind altering drugs like LSD, Ecstasy, or Meth, do not show up.
and your last example says more about your states court system than it does about the urine test issue. Face it, scum bags are like hydrogen atoms they have always been here, (Example , In the Bible, Josephs brothers sell him into slavery, THATS pretty sleazy. ) and always will be here, infringing on MY rights, and YOUR rights, WILL NOT CHANGE THAT, it's just more of that "It's for the children"BS., However, it sets a precedent. The whole war on drugs is a load of crap, it's nothing but a jobs program for cops, lawyers, and judges that basically subsidizes the drug gangs, by creating artificial price inflation and INCREASES gang violence by making drug dealing extremely lucrative (If the war on drugs were working the prices would go up, they don't, they go down.) without providing any form of mediation in financial and territorial disputes. If you are in an honest business and I stiff you for $1000 you can take me to court to recover your money, If I open a competing business and steal your customers you can get an injunction against me, What option does the criminal have ? If he blows off the loss, everyone will be stiffing him and moving in on his turf, and we are talking 10's of Thousands of dollars, Hey, I'm in an honest line of work, but if I got cheated out of THAT KIND of money, the person who did it better hope he pays his insurance premium. If the Government REALLY cared about the "Drug Problem" they would spend on attacking demand. Without a willing market, Crips, MS13, etc. would switch to encyclopedias and vacuum cleaners, or Amway :)
The government and people did not learn from Al Capone, remember, Alcohol was outlawed for a time, That worked well didn't it? (I think this will get into this weeks blog !) What prohibition DOES accomplish is a constant gnawing at OUR UNALIENABLE rights, peeing in a cup is a violation of the 4th and 5th Amendments, but thats minor, What about the RICO statute, you and I both are NRA members, Lets say several NRA members in New Orleans violently resist having their legally owned firearms stolen by Nagins thugs, the NOPD. You and I can be tried and convicted in THAT case, simply for being members of the same organization, Thats exactly how it was used by Rudy G. in NY Mafia trials when he was trying to make his name. How about how "the WAR on DRUGS" has been used to twist forfeiture and seizure laws, The Coast Guard has confiscated $1million yachts because of 2 or 3 pot seeds found in the CREW quarters. but the thing that MOST makes me want to scream bad things at all of you is that the primary justification for the Clinton AWB, was to keep these "Lethal weapons" out of the hands of drug gangs. The whole thing is just a scam, aimed a depriving you of billions of dollars a year and turning you into a slave of the "nanny staters". All on the false promise that "it's for the children".
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You ever been around someonw how just pumped heroin, been in a fight with someone who has been smoking meteh. Bad whama jamma as they say .Stay good see you at your blog!
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You ever been around someonw how just pumped heroin, been in a fight with someone who has been smoking meteh. Bad whama jamma as they say .Stay good see you at your blog!
I'm not defending using drugs OR alcohol, I'm saying that the tests are crap, they WILL detect heroin, but will also indicate positive for a poppy seed bagel. Also they DO NOT detect meth, LSD or a bunch of other stuff I'm also saying that the whole approach is a$$ backwards and not sincere, as far as govt. is concerned it is not in their best interest to actually CHANGE anything. if illegal drugs go away so do a LOT of govt jobs, I typed all afternoon on the blog about this and if you haven't seen it already you will later, but I'm posting this for the people that don't read it.