The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on October 20, 2008, 03:36:47 PM
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http://www.wlfi.com/Global/story.asp?S=9203898
Ball State group wants gun rights on campus
Associated Press - October 20, 2008 5:54 AM ET
MUNCIE, Ind. (AP) - A small group of Ball State University students says they should have the right to carry concealed weapons on campus to protect themselves in case of an attack.
The group called Ball State Students for Concealed Carry on Campus group drew about 10 people to a meeting this month.
Junior criminal justice major Blake Graham says most of the students in the group have gun permits.
Carrying guns on campus is against Ball State University policy, whether the holder has a permit or not.
The Ball State group is a local branch of a national organization that wants to push state legislatures and school administrations to allow concealed handguns on campus for license holders.
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http://www.wlfi.com/Global/story.asp?S=9203898
" They" will never allow that. Removing 'gun-free killing zones' for nut-jobs would result in OSHA fining the pants off the college for promoting a dangerous work area for said nut-jobs.
Seriously, gun-free zones are a pyscho's paradise.
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Seriously, gun-free zones are a pyscho's paradise.
No, they are not.
People that do mass shootings ALWAYS do them in places they have spent alot of time in. Place like: work, home, schools and place they "hang out" at. It just happends those places tend to be gun-free zones. Gun free zones play no role in rather or not a mass shooting happends. Saying that gun free zones are a pyscho's paradise is like saying free ways cuase speeders. We all know thats not the case, its just people tend to speed on the free way.
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No, they are not.
People that do mass shootings ALWAYS do them in places they have spent alot of time in. Place like: work, home, schools and place they "hang out" at. It just happends those places tend to be gun-free zones. Gun free zones play no role in rather or not a mass shooting happends. Saying that gun free zones are a pyscho's paradise is like saying free ways cuase speeders. We all know thats not the case, its just people tend to speed on the free way.
Nobody is saying that the location causes the mass shootings, anymore than school playgrounds cause pedophiles. They both do, however, provide a fertile hunting ground. For the pedophile, a hunting ground where those who fit their victim profile (children) "hang out", and for the mass shooting whack-a-doos a hunting ground where those who fit THEIR preferred victim profile (people without the means to defend themselves from becoming victims) hang out. They know that gun-free zones provide an environment in which the lack of meaningful resistance will allow them to rack up a larger body count. Perhaps the reason that the mass shooters tend to "hang out" in places that are gun-free zones is to allow themselves the opportunity to choose the best location (high ground with a broad field of fire) in which to carry out their dastardly deeds. How are they to "recon" a location if they don't "hang out" there? While I have no statistics to back up the last statement, common sense and military experience lead me to believe it's accurate.
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TAB
I'd be willing to bet that Diploma you received at the completion of your indoctrination is beautiful.
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TAB
I'd be willing to bet that Diploma you received at the completion of your indoctrination is beautiful.
show me one creditable study that shows gunfree zones play a role in increasing or decreasing crime.
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show me one creditable study that shows gunfree zones play a role in increasing or decreasing crime.
Show me one that says they don't.
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show me one creditable study that shows gunfree zones play a role in increasing or decreasing crime.
Oh, hell, TAB, not again. Go read John Lott. Then read it again and again and again until you finally get it! >:(
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Oh, hell, TAB, not again. Go read John Lott. Then read it again and again and again until you finally get it! >:(
you do realize that several studys have disproved lott, not only that but lott himself even said he was wrong. Please stop siting stuff that even the authoers said they were wrong.
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Link to studies that disprove Lott please...
I find that hard to believe.
???
"I propose to disallow the establishment of gun-free zones by private entrepreneurs and remove the ability of state legislatures to deem educational campuses as gun-free zones. Historically, the establishment of “shall issue” laws (laws that allow citizens to obtain a concealed carry license) have had a profound positive effect on the incidence of crime. According to John R. Lott Jr., of the American Enterprise Institute, in Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement the enactment of a shall issue law resulted in a decrease in murders caused by multiple victim public shootings by an average of eighty-nine percent and decreased the number of injuries caused by multiple victim public shootings by eighty-two percent. Therefore, it is highly likely that the allowance of concealed carry on what are currently gun-free zones would have a similar effect by decreasing crime. Allowing citizens to carry concealed weapons without hindrance would deter potential criminals by forcing them to be more cautious about their actions, since each person would have the capacity to neutralize them in the event that they were to disrupt the peace of society by committing a criminal offense. Armed citizens on college campuses would overcome the slow response and lack of planning by campus police and would additionally free monetary resources for other purposes, since the cost of training and weapon purchasing would be the responsibility of individual citizens. In 2006, over two-hundred billion dollars was spent on law enforcement and corrections. The United States currently has the highest incarceration rate in the world, incarcerating 750 criminals per ever 10,000 citizens. Armed citizens would likely relieve the strain on the infrastructure of the prison system by reducing the number of inmates. Additionally, this would monetarily benefit the citizens by saving them tax-dollars that are currently spent maintaining prisoners who have committed extremely violent offenses. Currently, two out of every three prisoners are released and arrested again. In addition, one out of three prisoners is sent back to jail, and burdens the citizens of the United States by leading a cyclic life of crime and punishment. "
COPYRIGHT Cody Bruce 2008
Do not reuse without my permission. Excerpt from academic essay.
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No, they are not.
People that do mass shootings ALWAYS do them in places they have spent alot of time in. Place like: work, home, schools and place they "hang out" at. It just happends those places tend to be gun-free zones. Gun free zones play no role in rather or not a mass shooting happends. Saying that gun free zones are a pyscho's paradise is like saying free ways cuase speeders. We all know thats not the case, its just people tend to speed on the free way.
Nuance.
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Don't waste your time, TAB makes this crap up as he goes along, that's why he never has any facts to back up his BS.
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Don't waste your time, TAB makes this crap up as he goes along, that's why he never has any facts to back up his BS.
http://www.vdare.com/malkin/johnlott.htm
Just goolge john lott admits... that just happends to be the 1st link... there are hundreds more.
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No, they are not.
People that do mass shootings ALWAYS do them in places they have spent alot of time in. Place like: work, home, schools and place they "hang out" at. .......
Work...you mean like down at the gun factory, er, nope. Maybe at the big box sporting goods store, er, nope. Like over at the police station, er, nope. Say..the military base, er, not really. Well, wait a minute, you know they always have mass shootings down at the gun shop, er, nope. Well by golly there is always somebody whackin' somebody over at the gun club...er, nope.
The death of common sense.
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Tab, sometimes you need to did a little deeper. Like, maybe finding a reply from the man himself to Malkin's article?
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html (http://johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html)
I also just went to Malkin's site and searched for Lott. Seems he's not in her bad graces, as he's the main in an essay on Obama...
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http://www.vdare.com/malkin/johnlott.htm
Just goolge john lott admits... that just happends to be the 1st link... there are hundreds more.
Dont believe everything you read on the Internet, Rosie........ ;D
Seriously, TAB, you are my favorite Democrat.
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That's what I thought!
8)
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Tab, sometimes you need to did a little deeper. Like, maybe finding a reply from the man himself to Malkin's article?
http://johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html (http://johnrlott.tripod.com/malkinsoped.html)
I also just went to Malkin's site and searched for Lott. Seems he's not in her bad graces, as he's the main in an essay on Obama...
Did you read the studys that were cited in that artical?
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You know...at one point we seem to all agree that much of what one reads or sees in the news, on the internet or in the papers, can be tainted. But... when we want to prove a point contrary to common sense everything cited is amazingling true, accurate, and without a doubt from a legitimate source...eh?
THINK!
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Think for a second yourself.
You beleave that more guns= less crime. Thats not common sense that is a belief you have. When one person comes out with a book, saing one thing and several other publish studys saming the exact opposite. its time to questions the one person.
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Work...you mean like down at the gun factory, er, nope. Maybe at the big box sporting goods store, er, nope. Like over at the police station, er, nope. Say..the military base, er, not really. Well, wait a minute, you know they always have mass shootings down at the gun shop, er, nope. Well by golly there is always somebody whackin' somebody over at the gun club...er, nope.
The death of common sense.
I would like to work this backwards, I'm sure there are studies that show, people under 6' tall get targeted more than people 6' or taller. Does the perp look for small people or AVOID, big people?
A Gun free zone might not be the attraction, probably not, but the Gun saturated zone is a definite deterrent. Ergo, no moves on police stations, shooting ranges, martial arts academies, Psycho people are crazy, not stupid. I do agree that the mass stuff happens mostly, in places the perp is comfortable in, but as most of you know, a man drove his pickup into a Luby's cafeteria, in Killeen, Texas, through a window and systematically killed multiple patrons. He did not work for them, maybe He ate there once, who knows, and then killed himself.
Google, Dr. Susan Gratia, she was there!!!
Now it is hard to do a study on brandishing a firearm and the perp leaves, no shots fired. This has happened twice to me, when I was young, did I call the police, no, it was quick down and dirty, nowadays, I don't show my hole cards until they are needed, and then shots will probably be fired. But I avoid this situation, I walk softly.
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Think for a second yourself.
You beleave that more guns= less crime. Thats not common sense that is a belief you have. When one person comes out with a book, saing one thing and several other publish studys saming the exact opposite. its time to questions the one person.
So by the standards of one in opposition to many in this particular subculture evidenced here, to judge another's cognitive ability and fruits thereof as expressed in "common sense" and life observations is self-condemnation. Questioning a person on the basis of persons is a fundamental flaw of thinking or a tactic in dishonesty or a lack of ability to reason whereas the comparison of persons upon the traits of character may not be. Multiple Nazi's questioned "common sense" and truth and millions died.
The avoidance of an idea or fact and the evidence thereof replaced with the comparison of persons is a fundamental flaw and tactic and, as evidenced in life today, a liberal tool that has been internalized by 1/2 our nation. Instead of adddressing an idea, concept, or study by the efforts of intellectual honesty the directive is to divert the honest comparison of ideas to a focus on the differences of opinions of persons. Multiple persons of dubious pedigree and integrity compared to one (or many) with an idea changes the focus of those of little thought and will cause them to denounce an idea that was born in truth. It is well documented throughout the ages that people want to get along and, perhaps in a lazy effort to avoid thought, side with a majority that is in error for multiple reasons. Propoganda and impure interests will invariable attack a person of dissenting ideas to ridicule and belittle as a tool to gain the acceptance of ideas that are without merit.
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Think for a second yourself.
You beleave that more guns= less crime. Thats not common sense that is a belief you have. When one person comes out with a book, saing one thing and several other publish studys saming the exact opposite. its time to questions the one person.
I'll grant ONE modification, More LAW ABIDING people with guns,= less crime.
That's why JUSTIFIABLE homicides are the highest they have ever been according to the FBI and also according to the FBI violent crime continues to drop EXCEPT where strict gun laws keep the citizens defenseless.
Are you going to say the FBI lies ? (about THESE statistics I mean ;D )
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I first read through this thread last night and did not respond. However, let's cut right through the debate of more guns=less crime (an idea to which I whole heartedly subscribe to, most specifically to TomBogan’s version), who recanted or did not recant their initial position on what, and who's opinion on what kinds of decisions a psycho might make (for God's sake, psychos are by definition psychotic, therefore irrational and unpredictable).
Getting back to the topic at hand… It all comes down to the fact that as a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit (in states where required), I want the opportunity/ability/option of protecting my life and maybe the lives of others in as many places as possible. As a responsible citizen (heavy emphasis on responsible) I want minimal (even zero) restrictions on my ability to exercise my RIGHTs.
Responsible citizen's RIGHTs should not be trampled on in the name of "public safety" or for any other reason.
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I first read through this thread last night and did not respond. However, let's cut right through the debate of more guns=less crime (an idea to which I whole heartedly subscribe to, most specifically to TomBogan’s version), who recanted or did not recant their initial position on what, and who's opinion on what kinds of decisions a psycho might make (for God's sake, psychos are by definition psychotic, therefore irrational and unpredictable).
Getting back to the topic at hand… It all comes down to the fact that as a law abiding citizen with a concealed carry permit (in states where required), I want the opportunity/ability/option of protecting my life and maybe the lives of others in as many places as possible. As a responsible citizen (heavy emphasis on responsible) I want minimal (even zero) restrictions on my ability to exercise my RIGHTs.
Responsible citizen's RIGHTs should not be trampled on in the name of "public safety" or for any other reason.
Bull seye!
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I'll grant ONE modification, More LAW ABIDING people with guns,= less crime.
That's why JUSTIFIABLE homicides are the highest they have ever been according to the FBI and also according to the FBI violent crime continues to drop EXCEPT where strict gun laws keep the citizens defenseless.
Are you going to say the FBI lies ? (about THESE statistics I mean ;D )
I would have to review the stats to see how they came up with them. Its also funny that I live in a county where unless you paid off the sheriff you can't get a CCW... yet violent crime is at the lowest point its been in 10 years. Now nonviolent crime has been on the rise, but thats most likly do to the crapy job market here. Something like 11% unemployement. I get atleast 10 people calling me/ coming into the shop looking for work. its just not out there right now.