The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Robin on October 24, 2008, 11:36:32 AM
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There are probably a fair number of forum members who frequent ranges where slow fire (more than one sec between shots) and no holster draws are enforced. Here are some suggestions that while not perfect, can help you reduce that limitation:
- 1. Start with the pistol at low ready. If simulating holster draw, you can start from where both hands grip the pistol. From that position bring the pistol up as quickly as possible and shoot one round at the target. This helps with first shot practice.
- 2. Aim a yard to the left or right of your target. Pretend you just fired a shot and quickly traverse to and shoot your target. This helps with second shot practice.
- 2a. A variant of this has you aim at a point a yard off the target after shooting. This simulates shooting a target in the middle of a string. You can repeat this sequence (pretend to shoot off target, shoot on target, pretend to shoot off target) as many times as you like.
- 3. Keep running the gun until dry to add mag change practice. After you change mags continue where you left off. You can also do this for tactical reloads.
- 4. Lean over to one side or the other as if there was an imaginary wall in front of you.
- 5. Don't face off square to your target. Keeping the pistol pointed downrange, square off at your adjacent neighbor's target before starting any drill. Combined with #2 or #2a this simulates traversing a wide series of targets as you shoot.
As I said this isn't the best way to train, but it's the best I've come up with to get around a range's "no rapid fire" limitation. Sound off if you have others.
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My local range has a "no rapid fire" rule too so I do most of my shooting in the woods instead. I find a suitable backstop and shoot what I want as fast as I want.
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Robin, for a newbie, on the forum, your post was excellent, we don't all have ranges that let us do what we need to do. Public ranges are what they are, and you gave some great tips. You can also do these things at home and in the backyard, just dryfiring, just remembering, NO LIVE ammo within reach, and an empty pistol. Thanks for a well thought out post.
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I try to avoid those ranges that won't let me at least rapid fire. There's a drill I use that you can do on any range, since (unless you're one of the pros) will keep you within 1shot/sec.
Load your magazines with one round each, then fire and change magazines.
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Thanks for the suggestions, Robin. I'll print this out and use it at one of the ranges I go to that has similar rules as you described.
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Thanks for the suggestions, Robin. I'll print this out and use it at one of the ranges I go to that has similar rules as you described.
Pass it around to others as well, even the Range personnel may want a copy to deflect complaints.
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Pass it around to others as well, even the Range personnel may want a copy to deflect complaints.
Good idea...... :)
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Thank you Robin! That's some great input. Allready printed it out and stuffed a copy of it into my rangebag. We have horrible gunlaws here in Germany. You are not allowed to use cover, movement etc. on the range, but that will really improve my training.
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Another great way idea is have some one else load some mags for you with a snap cap or 2. its going to happen in comp sooner or later that you have a malfuntion.
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There is one range that has a "No Rapid Fire" policy, however for stance and consistency, I use a blind figure eight.
With a target at a SD distance, (around 15 to 25 ft.) I pick up the weapon from the bench get into my shooting stance, close my eyes and fire one round. Than with eyes still closed, make a small figure 8 motion (keyword: small), recenter and fire one round.
With practice on stance and posture, arm position etc,..., the shot after the first shot are close. With practice they get closer,...
In a low/no light home SD scenario, numerous factors apply, but having the ability to place my pistol on target using form, instead of visual references counts for consistency, and of course practice, practice, practice,..
The other advice works very well, including weak hand shooting, and having the ball and dummy drill works great. Nothing like a "click" when one expects a "bang".
just my .02 cents. Welcome Robin thank you for a good post.
Tom W.
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There is one range that has a "No Rapid Fire" policy, however for stance and consistency, I use a blind figure eight.
With a target at a SD distance, (around 15 to 25 ft.) I pick up the weapon from the bench get into my shooting stance, close my eyes and fire one round. Than with eyes still closed, make a small figure 8 motion (keyword: small), recenter and fire one round.
With practice on stance and posture, arm position etc,..., the shot after the first shot are close. With practice they get closer,...
In a low/no light home SD scenario, numerous factors apply, but having the ability to place my pistol on target using form, instead of visual references counts for consistency, and of course practice, practice, practice,..
The other advice works very well, including weak hand shooting, and having the ball and dummy drill works great. Nothing like a "click" when one expects a "bang".
just my .02 cents. Welcome Robin thank you for a good post.
Tom W.
Nearly as bad as a bang when you expect a click.
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Nice post, Robin....very good info.
I printed your post and gave it to my friend that owns a range. He liked your ideas also.
Sometimes you have to compromise. I was a member of a range twenty or so years ago that had a 'no speed shooting' rule as well as no 'pins' or 'steel'. They were real old-school die-hard Bullseye guys.
We compromised and they finally allowed the fast shooting as long as it was on paper targets.
So, a couple of us went to a local pizza joint and bought a few stacks of those round cardboard liners that go under the pizza in the pizza boxes. Cost just a few bucks for a stack of fifty. We bought the 8" and 10". We cut a saw kerf down the length of an 8' 2x4 and the targets would stand up on edge.
Worked like a charm for simulated steel and they were already white and could be repaired with tape during a session.
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Thanks for all the compliments. While I am a newbie here, I wasn't born yesterday. :D Actually, I've been online since ARPANET days back in '85 so I've seen a fair number of forums over the years. Thanks for welcoming me here.
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Thanks for all the compliments. While I am a newbie here, I wasn't born yesterday. :D Actually, I've been online since ARPANET days back in '85 so I've seen a fair number of forums over the years. Thanks for welcoming me here.
Are you an old fart then??............ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Just kidding with you.............. ;D
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Yes, I am an old fart. I've been saying that since college.
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Old fart...then you must remember dialing up "Bullentin Boards".
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Good post!
One of the things we're trying to do with the new show, THE BEST DEFENSE, is to show ways to practice the techniques we're recommending on square ranges.
BTW, I got thrown off a Denver range a few years back for "rapid fire" although I thought I was going slow enough...the Fudds are with us always...
Michael B
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If you have five or six friends who want to practice defensive shooting techniques, you could approach a few of your local range operators until you find one who will let you rent an entire range bay for a few hours. I’ve done this at several different ranges in my local area over the years, and am currently running a monthly practice group at one of them.
Having a private range bay gives us a lot more latitude in setting up practice drills than we’d have on any of the local public ranges.
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Great topic and good advice. Of course, you should be sure that your "modifications" are consistent with your actual intended actions during a fight. IOW, for example, if you don't have a "low ready", don't invent one (adding inconcistency) for the sake of a problematic range policy. For students who use a high-compressed ready who don't have appropriate ranges to practice on, I recommend practicing presentation to the ready DRY. Live fire First Shots can be practiced realistically without violating range rules from the HC-ready (extend, touch, press).
The real problem comes from learning to manage recoil intuitively and efficiently for follow-up shots and extended strings of fire. Obviously, "rapid fire" with airsoft or any other non-live round isn't going to really count. This is an important area of defensive shooting training that warrants seeking out a proper range, if reasonably possible.
-RJP
(jaybet, I was living in New Jersey when I was dialing up BBS's..... if I could remember the names, we could exchange notes!)
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(jaybet, I was living in New Jersey when I was dialing up BBS's..... if I could remember the names, we could exchange notes!)
As long as you guys brought up dial-up BBS', I'm going to point out that I knew and worked with the guys who literally invented the BBS' - Randy Suess (hardware guy) and Ward Christenson (software - invented the Modem7 and Xmodem protocols) - both part of the Chicago Area Computer Hobbiest Exchange (CACHE). I was one of the founders and edited the newsleter for a couple of years.
Damn - I'm old!
::)