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Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on October 26, 2008, 11:07:05 PM

Title: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Hazcat on October 26, 2008, 11:07:05 PM
Just walked to my girls house (one door over).  ANY time I'm out I am armed. soooooooooooo...

Leaving her pleace with a botthe of Flor De Cana and a bottle of Pepsi.  Do I carry the Pepsi or Rum in my 'shooting hand"?

I made sure the rum was in my right hand cause I carry right front pocket.  Figured 'IF' I would hand the perp the rum (who wants a Pepsi?), free up that hand, pull and shoot.

I KNOW!!! "strange thoughts", but I seem to catch myself doing this kind of thing all the time "what if....?"
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: TAB on October 26, 2008, 11:10:32 PM
NO, NO, NO, NO, NO!   If you have to get too your gun in a hurry you will have to drop the bottle of rum.  Forget the waste of good booze... your going to need that after you have to get your gun out.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Hazcat on October 26, 2008, 11:15:15 PM
See, I figure he wants the rum.  I act a little buzzed, say 'here hold this' and now his hands are occupied and mine aren't.

(anyway there's LOTS more rum where that came from. ;) )
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 26, 2008, 11:20:43 PM
I agree with TAB but for a different reason, Don't hand it to him throw it at his head, draw as he ducks, the pepsi bottle will HURT if it hits him, either way you create a distraction to cover your draw, and still have rum AND cola afterward. When you draw down, the BG may very well run away, do you want him taking your rum with him or or bruises from a plastic bottle ?


See, I figure he wants the rum.  I act a little buzzed, say 'here hold this' and now his hands are occupied and mine aren't.

(anyway there's LOTS more rum where that came from. ;) )

In that case I stand corrected  ;D
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Hazcat on October 26, 2008, 11:24:45 PM
This is my neighborhodd (safe place) where most likely a BG would be 2-3 feet at best from me when it goes down.  So I figure act the fool and fool him.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: DDMac on October 27, 2008, 06:22:47 AM
I'm with you HAZ! Rum in right hand to surrender.

Shooting someone for taking your Pepsi is legally problematic, even in Florida.

Shooting someone for stealing Flor De Cana from the person of Se~nor HAZCAT, Justified, no question!

Mac.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: alfsauve on October 27, 2008, 07:37:09 AM
Well where I live you could be shot for open carry of Pepsi! ;-)

Even with only 4 years in military, I still tend to carry things in the left hand to leave the right free for.    And especially if I want to be prepared for some action, I keep my right hand free.

Alf

[WARNING:  WAR STORY]
In Tech School we were constantly harassed by green Lieutenants who had nothing better to do.   So a favorite game was to hang out near the post office and wait until some LT came out with his hands full.  A care package from mommy and a letter from his girl.  Then we'd line up about 25' apart and force him to salute a dozen of us.  A hoot to see them try to not drop everything.  Of course, in those days the simplest things kept us amused.   
[/END WAR STORY]
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: jaybet on October 27, 2008, 08:15:04 AM
Good thinking, Haz. Toss the rum to him... It's the mentality you have to have if you carry or have any other responsibility like that.
In another life I was a fire chief. Everywhere I went I sized up buildings, looked at access, looked at exposures, looked for hydrants...it's amazing how much mental capacity I gained back when I quit, not having to plan all hours of every day. Mental drill is essential.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: tombogan03884 on October 27, 2008, 12:03:37 PM
That's the thing MB talked about in one of his pod casts, I THINK he referred to it as "War gaming" But it is simply asking yourself "what if"
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 27, 2008, 02:07:40 PM
Haz, old sport, you brought up a good topic.
I have been playing the 'what if' game for years (especially the last five).
I am right handed and carry on my right hip, slightly rearward. I'm a good sized fellow so it is easy to conceal this way.
The hitch is, I often have to use a walking cane for assistance, particularly on uneven terrain. I use the cane with my right hand also. So, therefore I have had to implement my own set of defensive strategies and 'what if scenarios' to try and cover all the bases.
For example, if attacked, I am not physically able to run or seek cover rapidly (thank Heavens for the Castle Doctrine) so I am relegated to stand my ground and ward off the attack or threat. So I practice ditching the cane and drawing from concealment regularly, and from various angles. I also practice using the cane as a weapon.
I am in a constant state of awareness concerning my surroundings because bad people prey on those they perceive as 'weak' such as a person with a cane.

Good topic.....hope there is a lot of discussion on this........ 8).
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Fatman on October 27, 2008, 02:24:07 PM
Haz, old sport, you brought up a good topic.
I have been playing the 'what if' game for years (especially the last five).
I am right handed and carry on my right hip, slightly rearward. I'm a good sized fellow so it is easy to conceal this way.
The hitch is, I often have to use a walking cane for assistance, particularly on uneven terrain. I use the cane with my right hand also. So, therefore I have had to implement my own set of defensive strategies and 'what if scenarios' to try and cover all the bases.
For example, if attacked, I am not physically able to run or seek cover rapidly (thank Heavens for the Castle Doctrine) so I am relegated to stand my ground and ward off the attack or threat. So I practice ditching the cane and drawing from concealment regularly, and from various angles. I also practice using the cane as a weapon.
I am in a constant state of awareness concerning my surroundings because bad people prey on those they perceive as 'weak' such as a person with a cane.

Good topic.....hope there is a lot of discussion on this........ 8).


One word, PegLeg. Shelaly... shelali... shelaghli... big feckin' Irish stick made from some ungodly hard root with a knot on the end.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 27, 2008, 02:46:25 PM
Yessir....I got one......an old man who was going through physical therapy at the same time as I was gave me one.
I don't have a clue as to the type of wood it is, but I'd hate to get hit with it.
Oh, hell, I'd hate to get hit with ANY stick....but you know what I mean.

 ;D
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: shooter32 on October 27, 2008, 02:50:37 PM
Yessir....I got one......an old man who was going through physical therapy at the same time as I was gave me one.
I don't have a clue as to the type of wood it is, but I'd hate to get hit with it.
Oh, hell, I'd hate to get hit with ANY stick....but you know what I mean.

 ;D
PegLeg,
check out
www.valhallashootingclub.com
training
cane fighting 1 & 2

Some good stuff ;D A good strick can beat some a$$!!
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: ericire12 on October 27, 2008, 02:57:16 PM
Cane gun. .38 caliber:

(http://www.funforever.net/wp-content/gun_34.jpg)

(http://www.funforever.net/wp-content/gun_37.jpg)


http://www.funforever.net/archives/spy-guns/
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 27, 2008, 03:01:14 PM
PegLeg,
check out
www.valhallashootingclub.com
training
cane fighting 1 & 2

Some good stuff ;D A good strick can beat some a$$!!

Thanks shooter32.
I like Rob's training videos from Valhalla. I have some of their handgun videos but had not seen the cane stuff....I'll definitely check them out.
 8)
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: DDMac on October 27, 2008, 03:02:27 PM
How's this one? My wife calls it her "8 gauge".

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj211/DMACK_2008/Shileile.jpg)

Causes big Noggin lumps.

Mac.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: ericire12 on October 27, 2008, 03:04:20 PM
How's this one? My wife calls it her "8 gauge".

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj211/DMACK_2008/Shileile.jpg)

Causes big Noggin lumps.

Mac.

Speak softly....
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: shooter32 on October 27, 2008, 03:06:13 PM
How's this one? My wife calls it her "8 gauge".

(http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj211/DMACK_2008/Shileile.jpg)

Causes big Noggin lumps.

Mac.
A Mac be good stick? ;D
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: DDMac on October 27, 2008, 03:08:34 PM
Durn Tootin'! ;) Gotta sneak it back before she misses it!!

Mac.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 27, 2008, 03:10:56 PM
How's this one? My wife calls it her "8 gauge".
Causes big Noggin lumps.

Mac.

Now you could definitely put a few good "Pop-Knots" on a feller's "Top-Knot" with that...... ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Big Frank on October 27, 2008, 09:54:27 PM
If someone gave me a Pepsi I would give it back. Or I would carry it in my right hand and throw it away at the first sign of trouble.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: lefty60 on October 27, 2008, 11:16:42 PM
Food for thought!! We who need the big stick to assist walking are much easier to knock down!!

All macho expectations aside, it might pay to learn to fignt from the ground! I also find that I am no longer able to "bounce" back to my feet. (might need the help of a fork lift!) ;D ;D

What say you???
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Big Frank on October 27, 2008, 11:30:35 PM
Are you saying you're hefty, Lefty?

Practicing ground fighting is an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: lefty60 on October 28, 2008, 12:46:13 AM
Was way hefty for several years! (much better now!!)

What's the saying? " If I'd a know'd I could live this long I might of taken better care!" :P ;D ;D

 When the mind is still willing it is vital that you pay attention to what your body can still do!! Then you must adapt to and train to the new "rules".

As to the original post, I am lucky (????) to need the cane on the right side, and carry/shoot lefty. Cool huh?? ??? ???

As a former LEO/TRAINER  I have decided to check out training options for the "less mobile of us".

Sooo What's Out There?? ??? ;D ;D
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: Big Frank on October 28, 2008, 01:00:14 AM
Wheelchair assault course.  ;)  That was an odd thought.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: SwoopSJ on October 28, 2008, 01:42:40 AM
I think you guys have started a very benificial discussion.  Training courses for those who are physically "challenged" may already be utilized by the different training facilities, but if not, they definitely should be.  I'm sure there are a good number of individuals that would benifit from this type of training.  Maybe MB, can check it out and possibly make the suggestion if this type of training is not already available.

Swoop
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: ericire12 on October 28, 2008, 08:05:12 AM
Are you saying you're hefty, Lefty?

Practicing ground fighting is an excellent idea.

Practice shooting from the ground too..... especially not tipical ground positions. It is very different the first several times you do it, and it is much better to get that first time experience at a range then in a fight.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: shooter32 on October 28, 2008, 09:58:46 AM
All this could be ideas for MB's Best Defence. Can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 28, 2008, 10:12:55 AM
Practice shooting from the ground too..... especially not tipical ground positions. It is very different the first several times you do it, and it is much better to get that first time experience at a range then in a fight.

+1 on the ground shooting practice.

Also, Brazilian Style JiuJitsu is a good ground combat technique if you have good mid to upper body strength. Choke holds and immobilizing joint locks are key.
There are several training schools who will customize training for people with disabilities.

These are just examples:

http://www.frontsight.com/news.asp?Action=ViewNews&ID=90

http://www.forcetech.us/
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: lefty60 on October 29, 2008, 12:08:13 AM
A little more than a year ago I asked Front Site if they offered training for people with disabilities. They said that they could and would train a person even in a wheel chair. No details of what kind of a program.

Maybe others can/would provide such training. So who would be up for offering this kind of a program?? ??? ???

What would such a program include?? ???
Title: Re: Odd? Thoughts
Post by: PegLeg45 on October 29, 2008, 12:13:59 PM
A few years ago I was stuck in a wheelchair for over 6 months. That's when I bought my Glock 27 subcompact because it was easier to conceal. I took an Uncle Mikes Kydex paddle holster and removed the paddle and attached it to the inside arm of the wheelchair.
Then I practiced drawing and firing from the chair. I practiced shooting from as many different angles as possible. I also practiced shooting strong and weak handed while moving the chair with the other hand.
I wish I'd have taken pictures (I have since removed the holster since I no longer use the wheelchair).
Once on crutches it was a whole different ballgame. I carry on my right hip, so I had to practice balancing with the left crutch, tossing the right crutch, drawing and firing strong hand only (a history of bullseye helped).
Once I graduated to a cane, things became a little easier. I toss the cane and shoot the same as anyone else would. My problem comes with movement scenarios. Squatting, kneeling, diving, or going prone is next to impossible without injury. My tactics here involve side-stepping to cover and accurate fire.

I have been kind of on my own since there are not any training schools in my area. My good friend owns a shooting range close by so that helps with a location to shoot. Some training schools will come to you if you have a large enough class enrollment.
Even Massad Ayoob will come to your location if you meet a minimum enrollment number. I guess you just have to make a lot of inquiries.