The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on November 05, 2008, 08:53:19 PM
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There have been talk on forums about what to do if it comes down to a confiscatory situation. Several posters have talked about the "spin" they'll give when asked where their guns are located.
This video is of a law professor talking to a class on what to say when interviewed by a LEO....nothing. And he tells why. He is followed by a LEO who backs him up.
Briefly: Anything you say can and MAY be used AGAINST you in a court of law, BUT NOTHING you say will be used FOR you.
http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/ (http://www.regent.edu/admin/media/schlaw/LawPreview/)
So basically, DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I've watched a BATF court case in person. They didn't prosecute the kid for "gun running". They got him for lying on federal paperwork! DON'T MAKE UP STORIES. What they'll prosecute you for is lying, not for illegal gun possession.
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In light of history this appears to great advice. I always remember that some of the biggest gangsters, mobsters and crooks were not put away for their crimes. The got away with boot legging, drug running, book making, murder, extortion, bribery and theft. What put most of them away is simple stuff like tax evasion. They didn't report and pay tax on the income the law new about, and they got them.
When people ask me what to say when talking to a grieving family I always tell them that most of what you say is meaningless and stupid. Grab their hand or hug them, say "I'm sorry," and SHUT UP. Same goes when the cops come - SHUT UP, and don't say a word until YOUR attorney asks you to tell HIM your story.
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If you don't at least give a VERY brief description of your actions - along with something along the lines of "I was attacked and I want to press charges", you might find yourself being in the prosecutors sights.
If they only have statements that say you are the bad guy, from the aggressors pals/family - guess what - you may get hauled into court for nothing other than following bad advice.
I was told to give a VERY rough outline of what happened and then state you will give a detailed statement within 24 hours, and bring an attorney in tow.
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I thought he, she, they were trying to kill me, I don't want to speak now, can I talk to my attorney?
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If you don't at least give a VERY brief description of your actions - along with something along the lines of "I was attacked and I want to press charges", you might find yourself being in the prosecutors sights.
In some jurisdictions law abiding citizen + gun + self defense=prison sentence, your going to be in their sights regardless. Never talk to the justice system without legal representation. I keep the numbers of 5 pro gun lawyers just in case! And if it comes down to it ask, I'm I being detained or arrested if yes, I am invoking my right not to speak/answer questions without my lawyer present!
That said I'm not a lawyer or offering legal advice
Just my 2 cents
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Very appropriate advice. Here in looneyville, a man is being charged with attempted 2nd degree after shooting a guy who was beating him and his girlfriend. The victims are late 50's - early 60's I believe and the perp is 40ish with a some sort of martial arts black belt. He busted into the house, beat him and then her (his own mother!) and was going back to the guy when he was shot. The perp couldn't even keep his story straight from one interview to the next! Not one attorney or cop I have talked to understands why charges were filed.
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I came across those 2 videos several months ago, very enlightening, you need to watch them for your own good.
One of the many good points in the videos, is where it is pointed out that a police officer, when interviewing a person can lie at any time, about any thing, so they cannot be trusted.
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The advice from three attornies I have sought advice from (one was well recommended by several, I talked to him and took his advice, but he is too far away; one also came well recommended, but is at a career point he did not want to add to client load; and number three is current consultant for this and other family issues - I carry all three business cards) all agreed on this. "You can always add to your story where you left off, but you can never fill in the blanks in the middle of what you said, change what you said or take back what you said."
There are key words we use that we need to be careful with. How many have been advised when confronted by an attacker they should not use the work "kill" in any way? I was told that if you are being insulted and you say "don't kill me" all the witnesses will remember is that you said "kill." If you are being interviewed and say you were afraid of being killed so you shot to protect yourself, research has shown some will remember your statement as shoot to kill to protect yourself.
Law enforcements job is to catch someone for doing something, and your job is to not get caught for doing the right thing. Chances are that the happier law enforcement is with you, the deeper the hole your digging for yourself.
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I thought he, she, they were trying to kill me, I don't want to speak now, can I talk to my attorney?
So the prosecutor for the criminal trial or the plantiff's attorney in the civil trial will get the LEO to testify that you were paranoid. ("They were trying to kill me.") And that you acted guilty right from the get-go. ("..can I talk to my attorney?")
It's hard not to tell our side of the story. We're honest people just trying to do right and protect our families.
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Masaad Ayoob wrote an article in one of the gun rags in the last 1-2 years about this topic. I think it was 5 things to say when the cops arrive or something like that. Basically it was there's the bad guy, I'm the good guy, I was in fear of my life, I will cooperate fully with you after I have talked with my attorney. I will try to find the article and post the detailed info if anyone is interested.
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So basically, DON'T SAY ANYTHING. I've watched a BATF court case in person. They didn't prosecute the kid for "gun running". They got him for lying on federal paperwork! DON'T MAKE UP STORIES. What they'll prosecute you for is lying, not for illegal gun possession.
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Don't make things up" is the best advice I've heard in a while!
No Drama, no hysterics, no bragging. If your mind is going a mile a minute, chance are you may say something that is not in your best interest.
Just say you’re not feeling well and want to see a doctor. That ends things right there. See the doctor and call your lawyer.
If you killed the perp, it's a homicide case. It might be justified but it's still a homicide.
Unless it's really cut and dry, dead man in your daughters bedroom wearing a mask with a chainsaw, expect the police to treat you as a suspect in a homicide, AKA murder. They are not your friends, so who cares if they get pissed if you don't go and incriminate yourself.
You will probably end up in front of a grand jury in most states. Make sure your lawyer handle criminal cases or can refer you to one who does.
Find out who represents the FOP in your town and when in doubt use them.
True Story
An old vet disarmed a robber, fired a few shots at the prep as he was running away with out hitting him.
The victim runs the perp down and is pistol whipping the bad guy about the head when the police show up. The ambulance takes the perp to the hospital and the old vet rides down to the Roundhouse with a nice detective.
Old Vet tells nice detective about shooting at an un-armed fleeing perp.
Nice detective says you must have been firing warning shots.
Old Vet says No I was just missing him.
Nice detective says NO YOU WERE FIRING WARNING SHOTS.
Old Vet goes, Ah, that’s right, I was firing warning shots.
Nice detective smiles and does not have to lock up Old Vet for assault with a deadly weapon.
Don't count on nice detectives.
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Masaad Ayoob wrote an article in one of the gun rags in the last 1-2 years about this topic. I think it was 5 things to say when the cops arrive or something like that. Basically it was there's the bad guy, I'm the good guy, I was in fear of my life, I will cooperate fully with you after I have talked with my attorney. I will try to find the article and post the detailed info if anyone is interested.
Therein lies the key terminology, speaking as a former LEO.
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Sounds like "I was in fear for my life" would fit the criteria of the "reasonable man" to you as a LEO. Is that correct?
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Sounds like "I was in fear for my life" would fit the criteria of the "reasonable man" to you as a LEO. Is that correct?
Abso-friggin-lutely