The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: wheels on February 14, 2007, 09:28:49 PM
-
I have been searching for a .22 cal plinker that meets very strict criteria. My intention of publishing this list is in hopes the gun manufactures are reading this and will design a gun to meet this criteria.
I have a .22 Cal harrington and richardson double action revolver. But the company is out of business now. I don't know anything about the super expensive .22 competition guns or where to find them.
The purpose of the gun is to:
o kill small game
o compete in competition shooting
o build shooting skills using cheap .22 ammo. The skills would be to improve aim and trigger pull. I feel every shooter could benefit from owning and using this gun.
This is not going to be a self defence gun. (ok it will be better than nothing but self defence is not the intention. )
The gun should NEVER jam
The gun should be easy to clean.
The gun should be able to shoot any .22 LR ammo. Currently .22's are kinda picky about the brand of .22 you buy. This gun should be able to shoot the cheap stuff with no problems.
o 6 shot plus wheel gun. (I feel the .22 is not a strong enough round and every semi auto will jam on this round)
o You should be able to speed load the gun like you can the S&W .38 with speed loaders.
o The shells should eject easily after they have been shot. (My H&R gets stuck - this might get easier as I pump more rounds through it)
o The trigger should not be so hard to pull on double action. This kills accuracy and fingers. Maybe there is a reason why a wheel gun trigger is so hard to pull that I don't know.
o You should be able to add a scope to the gun or different sights.
o The gun should be easy to clean and field strip. (The rugar mark III may be a great .22 but it's a bear to put back together)
o The grips should be secure and probably use 2 screws to keep the grips on each side of the gun. (My H&R grips broke and I had to glue them back on)
o The gun should cost $200.00 - $400.00 NEW
o The gun should not be super heavy. Maybe we can get lucky and have some of that ultra light material used.
o The gun grip should be extremly comfortable. I am an XD 9mm owner mostly because of the grip. (My middle finger touches the back of he trigger guard on the H&R when shooting. Yea I have big hands.)
o The trigger pull should be between 2 - 3 pounds.
o Barrel length should be 4 inches.
Please add your opinions to this list. I am going to add to this list as time goes on. With a little luck we will build the specs for a perfect .22!
-
Taurus makes a couple of nice 22 LR DA revolvers, don't they?
How about finding a nice used smith and wesson kit gun at a gun store or a pawn shop, or the mid size older smith that looks like the Combat Masterpiece?
As for field stripping them..Ive never taken apart a revolver..don't know that Id want to.
May I suggest an alternative approach? Since it isnt being carried as a self defense revolver (I assume), how about a nice Ruger Single Six 22/22mag single action sixgun? I'm fairly certain it would be simple to get mounts and put a scope on one, and the Single Six is really great for hunting rabbits and squirrels with. A LOONG time ago in a galaxy far far away, I shot a squirrel out of the top of a tree with a 22 single six. It was a dumb risk, I realize now, but I was young and dumb back then.
Personally I'd love to have another single six. It's a fun gun. And if you are concerned about last-ditch self defense, the 22mag rounds in the other cylinder aren't bad for repelling goblins.
Hey..they're better than a 25 auto..and have decent penetration.
-
The Tauris I saw was too heavy. It was competing against the S&W 617. (Also too heavy)
I think these 2 guns are to have the same feel as a 357 to enable the .357 shooter access to cheap ammo while giving the same feel as a .357. Also the triggers are very difficult to pull on these guns.
-
The Tauris I saw was too heavy. It was competing against the S&W 617. (Also too heavy)
I think these 2 guns are to have the same feel as a 357 to enable the .357 shooter access to cheap ammo while giving the same feel as a .357. Also the triggers are very difficult to pull on these guns.
That's probably true...they made them as understudies for the larger guns to encourage people to buy both revolvers.
If you are really concerned about trigger pull, take a look at the single six. If it's not going to be used for self defense, then does it really matter if you can speed load it or not? The single action trigger pull from one of these is very crisp and fairly light..I would think.
-
Speed load is important. I don't like the single six because of the loading. I really got lucky with the H&R wheel gun.
-
The purpose of the gun is to:
o kill small game
o compete in competition shooting
o build shooting skills using cheap .22 ammo. The skills would be to improve aim and trigger pull. I feel every shooter could benefit from owning and using this gun.
This is not going to be a self defence gun. (ok it will be better than nothing but self defence is not the intention. )
The gun should NEVER jam
The gun should be easy to clean.
o 6 shot plus wheel gun. (I feel the .22 is not a strong enough round and every semi auto will jam on this round)
o You should be able to speed load the gun like you can the S&W .38 with speed loaders.
o The shells should eject easily after they have been shot. (My H&R gets stuck - this might get easier as I pump more rounds through it)
o The trigger should not be so hard to pull on double action. This kills accuracy and fingers. Maybe there is a reason why a wheel gun trigger is so hard to pull that I don't know.
o You should be able to add a scope to the gun or different sights.
o The gun should be easy to clean and field strip. (The rugar mark III may be a great .22 but it's a bear to put back together)
o The grips should be secure and probably use 2 screws to keep the grips on each side of the gun. (My H&R grips broke and I had to glue them back on)
o The gun should cost $200.00 NEW
o The gun should not be super heavy. Maybe we can get lucky and have some of that ultra light material used.
o The gun grip should be extremly comfortable. I am an XD 9mm owner mostly because of the grip. (My middle finger touches the back of he trigger guard on the H&R when shooting. Yea I have big hands.)
o The trigger pull should be between 2 - 3 pounds.
With all respect, I believe your criteria are unrealistic, especially the $200 new price.
What comes closest to your specs is the old Smith & Wesson Model 18 Combat Masterpiece in .22LR, or the older K22s without the current 617's underlugged barrel. But you will not find one of these for $200 these days, even used. Taurus makes a clone, but I haven't shot one, nor do I know what they're going for used.
Be aware that you will not be able to "speed load" a .22 revolver. Oh, you can for the very first cylinder full, if it is very clean, and possibly the second. After that, dirt/lube in the chambers will prevent the light .22 rounds from falling fully chambered of their own weight. You can use a speedloader but you still have to press every round home with your thumb.
I don't agree with your premise that no .22 automatic is reliable enough. The Ruger MK II/III, IME, is about as reliable as ANY .22 firearm gets. You are going to have a certain amount of malfunctioning with ANY .22 due to the nature of the ammo itself. You're just going to have to live with this.
I also disagree with your premise that the Ruger MK II/III is a bear to reassemble. It goes back together as easily as anything else, IF YOU'RE DOING IT RIGHT. All you have to do is learn the proper procedure.
Used MK IIs are available on the market in the $200 range. Just pick the barrel length and weight you want. (I include the .22/45s in this as well.)
-
I am willing to give on the price. Yea $200.00 is dreaming. But the price on the S&W 617 is $550 and that is way too much. But that is what this list is kinda about anyway.
But you should not have to put up with jams just because the round is crap. I don't care the round is crap, any jamed gun is dangerous. Hence my humble opinion any .22 semi-auto will jam and that is bad. Since the round is crap and cheap, make the .22 a wheel gun.
As far as the Rugar - I feel a gun should not be too difficult to put together. Every person at the local gun show told me the rugar is hard to put back to gether. You can do it if you hold your mouth right. But that just should not be. We live in a time with some wonderful 1911's, Glocks, Springfield XD's - all wonderful guns to shoot and take care of. We should be able to get the same from a .22. The walther p22 is an embarrasment to the walther name.
Nothing is impossible. I want the manufactures to build a safe reliable .22 or don't build it at all.
-
But you should not have to put up with jams just because the round is crap. I don't care the round is crap, any jamed gun is dangerous. Hence my humble opinion any .22 semi-auto will jam and that is bad. Since the round is crap and cheap, make the .22 a wheel gun.
Since you already stipulated that this is NOT going to be a self-defense weapon, I'm having trouble following your logic that a "jammed" gun is "dangerous." Inconvenient, yes. Annoying, yes. Sometimes even embarassing. But not "dangerous." And I have news for you: .22 revolvers CAN and DO experience just as many malfunctions as a good .22 auto pistol. It's well known that you have to keep the chambers/extractor/cylinder of a .22 revolver cleaned out (every hundred rounds or so) or the cylinder will start binding or lock up. We can start shooting my Ruger MKII and any of my several Colt or Smith .22 revolvers from a clean condition, and I can tell you which one of those guns will still be shooting when the other one is locked up due to dirt.
As far as the Rugar - I feel a gun should not be too difficult to put together. Every person at the local gun show told me the rugar is hard to put back to gether.
The Ruger is not difficult to put together. Just because no one you talked to at your gun show knows how to do it properly doesn't change that. Take two minutes to learn how it's done and this will cease to be a "problem" for you.
-
I just found a S&W 317 that is very close to the bill. But I am still concerned with the trigger pull on this gun and I would prefer the barrel to be 4 inches but this just might meet my specs.
http://www.impactguns.com/store/022188602227.html
I appriciate your opinion on the Ruger. I had one of the employees at my local gun range show me how to brake down the ruger for cleaning. He had a real bear of a time putting it back to gether. It took him a lot longer than 10 minutes to get it back together.
-
If the Smith 317 appeals to you, this might come even closer in barrel length and price. I think the weight is more appropriate, too. Also, those 317 Smiths are notorious for stiff DA trigger pulls.
Check this out:
http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=384&category=Revolver
-
This gun is kinda like a .22 cal version of a .357. This gun you pictured is the answer to the model 617. It also has a very heavy trigger pull. Plus the black sights make it very difficult to aim. This gun is also very heavy. White out will fix the front sight but the trigger is still difficult. The price is about right.
-
The Taurus 94 is built on their small frame--same size as the Smith 317 you posted.
25 ounces is not heavy. That's on the light end of the weight I want in a handgun. In your initial criteria, you said you wanted to use the gun for competition. You wouldn't want to go any lighter.
Black sights make it difficult to aim? White-Out on the front sight? Dude, I really don't know what to tell you at this point.
-
That Taurus looks sweet. But...4" for competition shooting...I don't know if you can shoot any of the run and gun stuff with a .22...they usually require .38 super or larger. A 4" gun may be just as accurate as a 7-1/2" or longer barreled gun....but its the sight radius that makes the difference.
-
First of all I'd like to say that .22 ammo isn't crap as long as you aren't buying the cheap stuff. If you buy the bulk boxes you will occasionally get a misfire, but a rimfire round by the very nature of the priming system will have an odd bad round. I used to compete in bullseye and used a S&W model 41 and it never jammed. You are in MHO giving the Ruger a bad rap as well. I've been shooting for going on 50 yrs, and I've never found a perfect gun/ammo combination. Anything mechanical will have a failure at some point. I have a single six that I bought in '67 and it's the one gun I'd keep if I could only have one gun in the safe.
Quit being so demanding from your gun/ammo and enjoy the shooting!
-
My intention of this post is to get a better stock .22 from the manufactures. The gun should not cost an arm and a leg, be easy to shoot and easy to clean. The trigger pull on the wheel guns is very hard. Your s&W 41 is a pretty expensive gun isn't it? I think it would be great to have a gun made that every shooter would benefit from. This discussion is providing something valuable. With luck, the gun manufactures are reading this as well.
I love to shoot and enjoy every bit of it. I am having great fun with the .22 H&R.
-
I recently purchased a S&W 617 - 4" - 10-shot cylinder and have had a blast with it.
I really like this gun and other than the HIGH CO$T, it meets all of my criteria for the "perfect plinker".
Nice trigger (SA and DA), very nice sights - I hope someone makes a speedloader for it someday.
As it turned out a Model 63 followed me home too, and that also meets the criteria but the 10-shot cylinder on the 617 brings a smile to the face of everyone who sees it... ;D
-
The gun should NEVER jam
Lots of luck on that one.
I have a Sig 226 that has NEVER jammed, but I don't delude myself that it can't. It's a piece of machinery.
Machines break or wear out just like tires can go flat.
The trigger pull should be between 2 - 3 pounds.
If you want a wheelgun and a light trigger you are flirting with failure to fire. You need to have enough force to squash that primer.
You say: "speed load is important".
No. It's not.
It may be desirable to you, but it's not "important" or you would already have an auto.
You claim autos jam, but that isn't my experience unless you're talking about a P22. About the only time I clean my Mark II is when it has digested so many rounds I feel guilty about shooting it more...or once a year. Whichever comes first. Always the former.
You are shorting yourself by automatically excluding the Ruger.
So far you have talked to dolts that don't understand the Ruger mechanism. Guys at a gun show and some guy at the range are not the same as talking to
"The Burning Bush" or chatting with JMB hisself. (Same thing??) Employee of the range or not.
To put the Ruger .22 back together:
Put the top end back on the frame.
Push the bolt stop pin through the frame and through the barrel/bolt assembly.
Place the top of mainspring/latch assembly back where you pulled it out of.
This is the important stuff---**The hammer strut swings freely. Swing it to the rear by pointing the muzzle up. That way it can be aligned to the recess in the mainspring housing where the spring and it's plunger are.**
Push the latch back into place and load 'er up!
It ain't rocket science and it takes longer to read than to do it.
-
My Tac-Sol Ruger 22/45 semiauto will feed dirtclods, not to mention Remington green box. It'll also shoot right alongside my S&W M-41, which is a racehorse (it was featured in HANDGUNS a few years ago as a real tackdriver).
I also like my S&W 617, too, but deep in my heart I long for an ancient blue K-22 Masterpiece with one of those amazing S&W DA actions from the Old Days. I've always found the J-Frame .22s and Kit Guns to be too light and whippy to really shoot well. One of my first guns was a Colt Woodsman I got for my birthday when I was in high school...it accounted for a lot of snapping turtles and assorted small varmints. I shoot it occasionally,but I think of it as being in genteel retirement.
I'm going to try to shoot 2 classes at the Ruger Rimfire Championships in May at the Hogue Range in Morro Bay, CA — unlimited, with Tac-Sol Rugers, and the "mechanically operated" class with a pump Taurus 62 rifle and the S&W 617 (unless that Masterpiece falls out of the sky!).
Hi Snake! Hi kmitch!
Michael B
-
I just read the ruger manual about how to put the gun together. Nice simple 10 step process. Apparently this gets easy after practice. The price on the ruger seems to be pretty good and that gun has been out for a long while. For those of you that own the 617 .22 S&W - what do you think about the trigger pull on that gun? I did not realize the wheel gun's needed such a stiff trigger just to shoot the gun.
Michael - I am looking forward to the results of the .22 competition in May. While your making the show please highlight the guns that are used as much as you can.
It kinda looks like if you want a plinker to compete or have an easy trigger then you have to be willing to spend more than 700.00. Is that correct? I just noticed a Benelli .22 cal semi auto but that is for about $800.00 plus. The S&W model 41 is about $1k. I wonder what it's like to shoot those type of guns.
Thanks to everyone for posting to this topic. I am learning a lot!
-
You know, Wheels, you've actually identified a problem that I'm not sure how to solve. On the micro scale, DA trigger pulls on .22s tend to be heavy because .22 ammunition is so wildly inconsistent...some of them take a concrete block to set 'em off, and most of them are dirty dirty dirty. Typically, people buy .22 ammo the same way I do...what's on sale at the Big Box Outdoor Store. I keep premium .22s around, but mostly I want cheap! People also want their plinkers to go bang, no matter what.
On the macro side of things, .22 manufacturers are in a tough place. Used to be we went through a common ramp-up learning to shoot as kids. We started with .22s and moved to centerfires. Yeah, just lile a lot of other people on this forum, I used to ride my bicycle down to the hardware store and buy .22 Green Box ammo; more than once, I carried a Winchester 62 in the bike's basket for plinking. Those days are dead, gone and buried. The hysteria around "kids and guns," the loss of plinking areas, and a flood of gun laws has pretty much broken the old paradigm. Since kids are no longer the primary market — where price is a huge consideration — .22 manufacturers make guns for adults, with similar pricing structures.
When you move to high end .22s like the S&W M-41, they are finicky beasts, designed as target pistols. My M-41, which dates back to the 1960s, likes premium ammo, PERIOD. It's not much of a plinker. It'll run with cheapy ammo, but not for long.
You mght look at the browning Buckmark. The Lovely and Ascerbic Lisa Farrell shoots a Tac-Sol barreled one in competition, and a standard one is $362 MSRP (http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detail.asp?value=006B&cat_id=051&type_id=407). If you love it to death, you can step up to a Tac-Sol premium barrel later.
Yeah, the Rugers are a pain in the butt to disassemble...they're still the best value out there. A 22/45 5 1/2 inch bull barrel is $307 (http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdSpecsView?model=10107), and you can usually find one for less than that. Hard to argue with.
Michael B
-
That is why I made my list and published it. I found a remfire forum where there are a lot of .22 shooters talking about this very topic. I have sent this discussion link to S&W and Tarus. Yes the market for the .22 has changed since the days you could ride your bike with your plinker and get ammo. I think you summarized the issue perfectly. Ruger is a great value, but tough to put back together. You must clean a .22 or it won't work right. It's not a glock or XD. The DA wheel guns have a very hard trigger.
I think the .22 should be able to fire any round - especially the cheap ones and not jam. So that puts the semi-auto's out of this list.
Michael - can you get some of your friends at Tarus and S&W to take a close look at this list? I think it would be great to have a .22 that can shoot like my XD. The XD goes bang all the time no matter what kind of round is in the gun. It's easy to clean and it's easy to be accurate. I think .22 shooters have been putting up with crap for too long. We should not have to spend $1000.00 for a target pistol, when we can get guns like the glock, 1911 or springfields that always work.
Since the rimfire taks so much effort to fire, isn't there a way to use mechanics (geers) to multiply the force applied to a hard spring? Is there such a thing as an electric trigger? Maybe the design of the gun should be different than what we have been shooting for so many years?
-
Here is a link I found on the S&W forum for speedloaders for the 617: http://www.msnusers.com/Speedloader/shoebox.msnw. I have a 617 10 shot with a 6 inch barrel. I love it. The trigger pull on my gun is about the same as on my .357. I have not had any problems with it and decided buy it when I originally went out to buy a .22 auto pistol. I guess I am just a wheelgunner at heart!
-
Ruger is a great value, but tough to put back together. You must clean a .22 or it won't work right. It's not a glock or XD. The DA wheel guns have a very hard trigger.
I think the .22 should be able to fire any round - especially the cheap ones and not jam. So that puts the semi-auto's out of this list.
Wheels, with all due respect, are you paying any attention at all to what people are telling you here? The Ruger is NOT hard to put back together, you just have to know HOW, same as anything else you do in life. It's apparent that you're inexperienced but ingorance is NOT a virtue and there's no reason to write off a perfectly fine firearm just because you don't want to take two minutes to learn how to run it.
As to revolvers having a "hard trigger," have you ever tried a Smith or anything besides your H&R? Every H&R I've ever handled DID have a "hard trigger," but you might be surprised at how smooth a modern DA revolver (such as a Smith or Taurus) can be. And if you're going to be using it for hunting, "competition," and plinking, just cock the damn thing and you'll have about as sweet a trigger pull as you can get on a handgun.
Cheap .22 ammo will not cause a gun to "jam." The cheap stuff might have a few more duds in every thousand rounds than the most expensive, but I've found even the cheapest stuff to run very well in a wide variety of guns. Yes, you might have to try a few brands to find what works best for you. All part of the fun. And if the occasional "click" instead of "bang" is a day-ruining event in your life, then I suggest you forget about ANY .22 firearm of ANY kind, rifle or pistol, because they are ALL going to do it sooner or later. You just jack the dud out and drive on. It ain't rocket surgery. ;D
PS: Oh, BTW, Hi Michael and good to be here! Looks like a nice place you got going! Drive on!
-
Snake your right.
You can pull the hammer back on a DA revolver and you have a great trigger pull. Would you agree that would be a bit tough to rapid fire accurately?
I think your also right about the ruger. Put a little effort into learning how to put it back together and your good to go. Every review I have read from people about putting it back together shares their pain on putting it back together. My intention of this post is to get a better .22 than what we have available. The ruger is the best value. Its obviously not as easy as a wheel gun, XD or Glock. At least for most people. Dissin the ruger is not my intention.
We live in a fantastic time. We should be able to have a .22 that is better than anything we have ever shot before. It should not cost $1000. It should be easy to clean and it should always work.
Does anyone know of electric triggers for guns? What if you had a wheel gun or a semi-auto with an electric trigger? What if it was not super heavy?
-
I've got a number of .22 pistols - both semi's and revolvers. I have to say right now my favorite shooter is the Ruger 22/45 with the Tactical Solutions Pac-Lite receiver like Michael has. It's very accruate and a blast to shoot.
I love my S&W M41 and my K22 masterpiece, but as Michael said, that Ruger is a tremendous value.
-
You can pull the hammer back on a DA revolver and you have a great trigger pull. Would you agree that would be a bit tough to rapid fire accurately?
I think your also right about the ruger. Put a little effort into learning how to put it back together and your good to go. Every review I have read from people about putting it back together shares their pain on putting it back together.
What if you had a wheel gun or a semi-auto with an electric trigger? What if it was not super heavy?
You might be surprised at the rate of fire you can attain with a DA revolver by cocking it with your off-thumb. You can also do damn good work with the smooth DA trigger of an S&W. Yes, this takes a little effort. Most worthwhile things in life do. The gun is not going to shoot itself.
I can't help it if you are listening to people who have never bothered to read their Ruger manual to learn how to put the thing back together. All I can tell you is that if you're doing it right, it goes back together faster and easier than a 1911. Doesn't get much easier than that. If you don't do it right, yes, it will give you problems until you accidentally stumble upon the right combination. Been there done that. But it's no harder to do it right than to do it wrong.
If you don't like the Ruger, look at Browning's .22s. I've never used one but those who have both guns seem to rate them about equally with the Ruger.
You don't need to spend $1000 to get a decent .22 handgun. Used Rugers can be had for $200 and if you want an even better trigger, you can have that cleaned up for $50-100. The Brownings aren't much more. Used S&W K22s and Model 18s seem to go for about $400, sometimes less, and they're good to go right out of the box. New Tauruses can be had for even less than that.
Electric triggers? Not for me. My Dad taught me long ago: Trust physics always, chemistry usually, electricity NEVER. I will NEVER own any gun that relies on batteries of any kind to go bang.
Tens of millions of us are getting along just fine with stuff that's on the market now and has been on the market for DECADES. You don't have to waste time reinventing the wheel. Pick a system, spend your money, and then get to work SHOOTING IT. That's what all the rest of us have done. ;)
-
You don't need to spend $1000 to get a decent .22 handgun. Used Rugers can be had for $200 and if you want an even better trigger, you can have that cleaned up for $50-100.
Tens of millions of us are getting along just fine with stuff that's on the market now and has been on the market for DECADES. You don't have to waste time reinventing the wheel. Pick a system, spend your money, and then get to work SHOOTING IT. That's what all the rest of us have done. ;)
Amen, Brother, Amen.
A local store had a Ruger Mk II for 150 after some gunsmithing. I should have bought it but it was 30-40 over Blue Book for its condition. I decided not to buy when they refused to tell me what gunsmithing had been done.
-
It sounds like your mind is sort of set on a revolver, but let me also make a case for the semi-auto pistol. Either the Ruger Mk II (I'm not a fan of the new features of the Mk III) or the Browning Buckmark will do the trick. You can find used examples of either in your price range. Both have decent triggers (Buckmark probably has an edge out of the box, but Mk II/III have outstanding after market options) and good accuracy. Both IMHO have excellent reliability (a lot depends on the quality of the ammo you use). Both offer a myriad of shapes and sizes to suit every taste. As for cleaning, there is no need to disassemble either gun for standard cleaning. Use of the new spray type degreasers and cleaner/lubricants (I like the Shooter's Choice Polymer Safe Degreaser and Tetra Cleaner/Lube) make it unnecessary. Give one these guns a whirl, I think you'll like it. Worst case, you'll have something to trade in for that wonder wheel gun you seek. Good luck and shoot safe.
-
Hey Wheels, I started a poll over at rimfirecentral.com on the question of Ruger .22 pistol reliability. As of this moment there have been 54 responses--1 "Below Average" reliability, and the other 53 all "Very Reliable." The comments posted are also interesting. Check it out here:
http://rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=174979
-
If I knew a perfect (name your caliber) plinker existed, I'd have one. Or more. But, here goes:
S&W Model 63. 22lr, or short(er). J frame, 4" barrel, sort-of-target sights. I have one, and I'll have it until I'm 6 ft. underground. And maybe then, too. I hope my wife unloads it before she has me cremated. It is a Double Action revolver, has Decent DA & SA pulls, but not down where you want them.
Ruger Bearcat. 22lr. Single Action only. Similar in size to S&W J frames.
Don't know what either gun is going for used, you can probably find typical prices on the web.
Don't like black sights? Get over it.
If the front sight width and the opening in the rear sight are correct, there will be daylight (or target) showing equally between the edges of the front sight and the edges of the opening in the rear sight. There are fancier sights available, but they are rarely, if ever, better than black front sight & black rear sight. Of course, if you want a barbecue gun, you could put a gold insert in the front sight, etc. White dots are OK, as are tritium sights, if you want a self-defense gun.
-
Latest results of my poll referenced above: 75 respondants, 1 vote each for Average and Below Average, 73 votes for Very Reliable.
Next time you're talking to a car dealer, ask him if he'd be happy if his brand had a customer Very Reliable rating of 97.33%. ;)
-
Well, I've got a P22 - came with both barrels, but I've only shot it with the long one. I've had no malfs in well over 1K rounds. Reckon I got a good one. At 25 yds with a 10" plate - even a caveman could do it...
-
Update: My poll has now had 100 responses--102 to be exact. One vote "Below Average," Two votes "Average," 99 votes "Very Reliable." Interpret the figures to suit yourself.
Many of the posted comments were also very interesting.
-
Wheels, dude! Every post response is giving good accurate info. If you could buy an XD, GLOCK ETC... IN 22 RF, WHY SHOULD'NT IT COST THE SAME AS THE CENTERFIRE VERSION. ALL THE SAME STEPS IN MACHINING ARE TAKEN, SAME MATERIALS ARE USED, I HEAR THIS ALL THE TIME ABOUT .22'S, WHY SHOULD IT COST THE SAME AS THE BIGGER PISTOL, RIFLE ETC... DUHH. HOWEVER, IF YOU OWN A GLOCK, YOU CAN PURCHASE A .22 CONVERSION KIT FROM , CIENER OR ENTERPRISE ARMS, MAYBE OTHERS. YOU WILL NOW HAVE THE SAME TRIGGER PULL AND GRIP AS WHAT YOU USE NORMALLY. CONVERSIONS ARE MOSTLY UNDER 250 DOLLARS. THEY DISASSEMBLE AND REASSEMBLE LIKE YOU ARE USED TO. IF YOU SHOOT A 1911, THERE ARE MANY CONVERSION KITS AVAILABLE. RELIABILITY WITH A RIMFIRE IS AS PREVIOUSLY STATED, THE BETTER THE AMMO THE LONGER IT WILL FUNCTION WITH OUT CLEANING. BUT THE PROCESS OF THE PRIMING COMPOUND IN A RIMFIRE HAS NOT IMPROVED FOR A HUNDRED YEARS. IT IS AMAZING IT WORKS AS WELL AS IT DOES. I AM A REVOLVERSMITH, I LIKE S&W'S THE MOST, BUT DON'T POO POO ON RUGER OR TAURUS,THEY ARE HARDER TO GET GOOD RESULTS FROM DUE TO COIL SPRING IGNITION. BUT WHEN DOING A RIMFIRE REVOLVER, THE END RESULT HAS TO TEST FIRED WITH SEVERAL DIFFERENT KINDS OF AMMO, TO MAKE SURE THE RESULTS WILL GO BANG DOUBLE ACTION OR MORE CORRECTLY ( TRIGGER COCKED ).
-
Sorry
I still will not own a rugar .22 cal. I am going to get the 617 s&w 4 inch some day.
-
OK...we're on page 3 now. There is a lot of good information out there...for sime-autos I have Brownings & Ruger & the Hammerli Trailside (or whatever it's spelled/called). The Buckmarks are the easiest for me to disassemble and replace springs, extractors, etc. You can get a used one cheap, buy a new spring or two with extractors, buffers, etc. for under $50 and have a "new" gun....a used one is great if the barrel is good and a quick look will answer that for you. I think you can find a deal on the Browning....I've also an old Browning Challenger III I really like..good squirrel killer...the old springs didn't hold up well to Stingers though.
Now the change for this thread and to stay with the semi-auto and no recoil to speak of...my motive is to impress you to get a pre-owned, relatively inexpensive .22 plinker.....then save what's left to go towards an FN Five SeveN ! ! ! ! ! I love mine and I love that little 5.7x28mm centerfire cartridge. Not cheap to shoot or buy but with a 40grain Vmax @ around 2,000 fps from a pistol is one hot little dude. And, the dang thing is super light!
I'm now bringing it varmint hunting with me for those close in shots! If you reload or can find the SS190 or SS192 ammo the claim is 2,050 fps and some say up to 2,200 fps if you call muzzle @ the muzzle or out 10 feet...which basically says 50 yard zero and around an inch low at 100 yards. The SS190 is black tip armor piercing and I think the SS192 is steel core (?) but the ATF has said no more civilian sales of this so get it while/if you can....the stuff is great when you're shooting at the local dump! Anyway, it can be a light duty self-defense weapon way beyond the capabilities of any .22 pistol....and unless you are in Kalifornia it holds 20 rounds!