The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: twyacht on November 21, 2008, 07:25:37 PM
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As someone in the marine industry,( I work on luxury yachts),watching pirates from Somalia get news time in their junk boats hold supertankers and freighters for ransom is Bullsh**!. Now I hear the US NAVY needs clarification from the UN for engaging pirates? >:(. The India Navy sank one, but $150 million dollars of ransom has already been paid. :-X
What ever happened to maritime law? It goes back several hundred years and has more "balls" in its language than anything the UN could ever come up with. Piracy was dealt with harshly, you attack my boat in International Waters, I can do anything to protect it, including taking your life, by ANY and all means. Period.
These ships can't put a couple of .50's or 20mm guns on the deck? These pirates run around in junk vessels. C'mon.. what a bunch of (w)ussies. Now we need the UN to clarify???? ??? Give me a Barrett and they won't get within 1000yds.
I made a service call to a large yacht, and had to move "crates" of ammo, (7.62x39 and .223) to access the area for repairs. The owner was onboard and told me, if any attempt is made (which does still happen), in the Caribbean, to board or pirate his ship he has a literal locker, located by the pilothouse. It is filled with all the stuff us gun porn lovers really like. He said he is not holding back, and will NOT be stingy with rounds. His boat had firearms all over it. Than he joked about being the 5th largest Navy.
Good grief. Where's deepwater? I'll bet there's some locker somewhere on his ship... ::)
Alright, rant off.
Thank you.
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Is the issue with the U.S. Navy and the U.N. just over piracy, or are these pirates flying some nation's flag?
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Little shits speed up in the ships wake to make them hard to see and either climb up on the ladders the crew FORGETS to haul up, or they stand off and threaten with an RPG or similar.
One word - Barrett -when you absolutely need to reach out and touch someone. Hard.
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OK kids,
Here's the deal, the bastards are all over the world, but mostly indonesia and red sea, gulf of Aden. also, most companies do not allow firearms aboard their vessels. why? who knows? anyway, the ship I'm on is under gov't contract, so if we go to some of these rough areas (and this is not new, the numbers are the same as the year before) we carry a security force onboard - 4 .50 cal machine guns, two forward, two aft. plua a crew of about ten ARMED soldiers. now, I've worked on other vessels that did not have security, but did take precautions, hell, we can flood a small boat in a few seconds with our fire pumps. we have a high freeboard (from the water to the rail for those of you who live in the mountains) and high capacity pumps. also we have a roving watch (deckies are good for something!) that keeps a lookout for anything out of the ordinary. ALL doors, hatches are closed at night.. all nights. so, if someone were to come alongside all we do is fire up the fire monitors (fixed fire fighting system) and flood the decks. anybody coming alongside gets flooded (I've done this unintentionally while taking fuel, open the scuppers and all the rain water went into the bunkerbarges house. oops) and if they get aboard the ship is buttoned up tight. we recieve reports of attempts every day, and it hasn't slowed down.the biggest issue is thaty some capt's are not prepared. they don't take these simple precautions. also, the crew doesn't 'forget ' to raise the ladders. these ships raise them as soon as they drop off the pilot, hell if you lose the gangway you aint goin' ashore. this is important.
so,,,,, this is not new news, just a matter of high profile incidents. I'm glad that it is now public, but it is nothing new, hell it's been going on since man started going to sea! OK, I'm done.
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As far back as the Phoenicians, the difference between a merchant and a Pirate was weather they could take the approaching ship, Navies, IE, Government owned armed vessels were not developed to fight other countries, but to protect their own countries merchant ships.ever since the Founding of the US Navy the US has been involved in International joint "Anti Piracy " patrols of one sort or another. Remember, the fact that America HAS a deep water Navy is due to the north African Muslim pirates.
The only difference is that previously Navy Commanders acted on their own initiative, with guidance from Washington, UN involvement has the POTENTIAL to bring wider coordination to the age old fight. (Probably won't though. )
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Some people think the pirates of the Carribean is just an amusement ride and a few movies. We know better. The UN has the potential to screw things up bad if we let them have any authority over us. Nobody I know has needed the UN for anything.
UN + American = UN-American.
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Any vessel outside their own flag stae is considered a sovereign state.. What?? yes, the master of the vessel is the law, what he says goes, if the ship is in danger the crew can figtht. also, anytime a U.S. vessel is in danger they can call U.S. Navy and call for immediate help. (love them Squids) ,, Hopefully they're nearby..
If my ship is in danger we do not need the UN.. just the USN. :D anyway, I hope that with al this publicity we can convince the companies to let us arm ourselves. you know what will happen then.
hell, if this goes right we can use it to justify carry laws ;D .. the pirates take advantage of the fact that these ships are unarmed.
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Thanks deepwater. Hell, 1 or 2 good rifles just keep shooting holes in their little boats until the priority is "we're sinking" takes over.
There are two times when having guns and RPG's are bad: 1 of them is when your drowning!
These multi, multi million dollar ships with cargo need to hire escort vessels or arm themselves.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article4677006.ece
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/pirates-1.jpg)
This little gang of punks would have many holes at the water line before they got to my ship.
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Make the country of Somolia a large crater! Problem solved....
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I sure hope this statement is not against "Forum Rules" like it might be somewhere else...Who needs the UN!!!? I believe they will be more trouble than they are worth in the near future. We did fine before them and will continue fine without them.
JMRadicalO
Richard
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. also, the crew doesn't 'forget ' to raise the ladders.
I meant the sarcasticle forget. The recent rash in Somalia seems to have some help somehow.
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I think the help they get is the fact that some of these crews don't or didn't realize the real danger. they need to keep a constant watch and button down ALL hatches and doors. if they can't get IN the ship to get to the people then they can't take hostages.
I DO agree that all these vessels should have at least one good rifle, maybe a riot gun and a couple of good handguns. keep them in a locked cabinet thatcan be accessed by the Capt or during an emergency but with an alarm (keep the retards from playing with them).
On my ship we do piracy drills EVERY MONTH. also bomb threats, stowaway searches, and fire drills / abandon ship drills weekly.
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oh yeah, here's our protection ;D
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I don't understand why the Navies of the world have to patrol the area. Do the math:
A 100 million dollar cargo of oil in a boat that's probably worth half a billion dollars, maybe a billion, I don't know... and it is taken hostage by some rukey-dukes in dinghys?
The owner of the boat should be able to afford ten grand to hire ten guards to walk the rails with bullhorns. Anything that comes in range gets a warning, then gets blown out of the water. How hard (or expensive) is that? It beats us driving a few navy boats around out there at half a million a day. In fact, it would be cheaper for US to hire the guards and arm them than to patrol with our navy.
Who's in charge around here?
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Where do I sign up? I'm more than willings to shoot the bastards and I know a few sea shanties!
My favorite, Highland Laddie, can be downloaded for free on Holdstock & McLeod's website:
http://www.dickholdstock.com/discography.html
Deepwater, you might appreciate those---they are really good!
Now for these pirates... 8)
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I don't understand why the Navies of the world have to patrol the area. Do the math:
A 100 million dollar cargo of oil in a boat that's probably worth half a billion dollars, maybe a billion, I don't know... and it is taken hostage by some rukey-dukes in dinghys?
The owner of the boat should be able to afford ten grand to hire ten guards to walk the rails with bullhorns. Anything that comes in range gets a warning, then gets blown out of the water. How hard (or expensive) is that? It beats us driving a few navy boats around out there at half a million a day. In fact, it would be cheaper for US to hire the guards and arm them than to patrol with our navy.
Who's in charge around here?
We are already paying for the Navy to cruise around anyway,so we might as well get some use out of them. Besides, it's good training. But I believe a combination of BOTH is the best approach. Harden the targets by arming the ships, then send the Navy in to take out the support structure. These guys have to fuel their boats and eat somewhere, they don't live on a Boston Whaler.
Picture this, you are a pirate who just spent a hard day getting your boat stitched by .50 cal, you return to your snug little hide out to find a USN Destroyer putting 5 inch shells into your hootch, that would take the charm and glamour out of a pirates life REAL quick. ;D
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also remember that these ships aren't built for war. they are merchant ships. true they should be armed, but as far as tracking down and enforcing etc... we need to send in the folks that are paid and trained to do this. honestly not sure I would want some of our deckies running around with guns, some of these clown were scared out from under a bridge with the promise of beer money... you get the picture. :P
these ships are not built to maneuver or for speed.
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ISSUES > Defense
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May 4, 2006
Victory in Tripoli: Lessons for the War on Terrorism
by Joshua E. London
Heritage Lecture #940
Over two centuries ago, the United States was dragged into the affairs of the Islamic world by an escalating series of unprovoked attacks on Americans by Muslim pirates, the terrorists of the era. These pirates preyed on unsuspecting trade ships. The hulking merchant vessels of the period were no match for the Muslim pirate ships, which were built for speed and lightning strikes. It was simply a fact of life that— over the centuries—took its toll on countless merchant ships and their crews.
Contemporary scholars estimate that over 1 million white Christians from France and Italy to Spain, Holland, Great Britain, the Americas, and even Iceland were captured between 1500 and 1800. The bloodcurdling tales of brutality and horror that awaited Christians unlucky enough to fall victim to the Barbary Pirates were widely known, although sometimes wildly exaggerated.
The reality was often much more prosaic, although no less cruel. After seizing the cargo and scuttling the vessel, the pirates would strip the crew of anything deemed remotely valuable. The shaken, naked, terrified crewmen would then be dragged back to North Africa. There, they would be imprisoned and enslaved or, if they were lucky, ransomed back to their sovereign or their family or the company they worked for.
Often enough, however, the victims of these maritime hijackings would languish in fetid prisons, unsure of when, or even if, they would ever be redeemed. Many perished or simply disappeared in the White Slave trade. The only other escape was conversion. Embracing Islam—“turning Turk”—instantly changed one’s status and prospects. Indeed, from time to time, some of these victims would prove rather able-bodied adventurers and mercenaries, considering their national identity, their religion, and their foreskins a small price to pay as compared with life as a Muslim pirate in North Africa.
We do have a long history with Iislamic piracy. I found the reference to "white slavery" to be interesting, never heard about that during my public school indoctrination.
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also remember that these ships aren't built for war. they are merchant ships. true they should be armed, but as far as tracking down and enforcing etc... we need to send in the folks that are paid and trained to do this. honestly not sure I would want some of our deckies running around with guns, some of these clown were scared out from under a bridge with the promise of beer money... you get the picture. :P
these ships are not built to maneuver or for speed.
I agree with you, Deepwater...MMs do their job and shouldn't be expected to fight necessarily. But a handful of mercenaries can do a whole lot of protecting for not a whole lot of money, all things considered.
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But a handful of mercenaries can do a whole lot of protecting for not a whole lot of money, all things considered.
now all we have to do is convince the shipping companies and the insurance companies. (probably the biggest reason we don't carry weapos, liability).
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more of what we can throw at these clowns..
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That looks like the normal combat mix for tanks: 4 M8 API to 1 M20 APIT. Fire 'em up with incendiaries. :)