The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Fatman on November 26, 2008, 07:02:33 PM
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`(L) A semiautomatic rifle or shotgun originally designed for military or law enforcement use, or a firearm based on the design of such a firearm, that is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, as determined by the Attorney General. In making the determination, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that a firearm procured for use by the United States military or any Federal law enforcement agency is not particularly suitable for sporting purposes, and a firearm shall not be determined to be particularly suitable for sporting purposes solely because the firearm is suitable for use in a sporting event.'
Yes. Any semi-automatic weapon used by military or federal law enforcement cannot be owned by civilians and the Attorney General, at any time, can decide that a weapon (and any copies), are not suitable for "sporting purposes" and ban it. Do I have to mention the long list of weapons currently in use by our Government, Military and Federal Law Enforcement? Hunters you are included in this list. Get the wrong Attorney General and he or she can use this provision to expand the ban list to include any weapon.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/article/Shooting/Are-Gun-Owners-the-Second-Amendments-Worst-Enemy (http://www.outdoorlife.com/article/Shooting/Are-Gun-Owners-the-Second-Amendments-Worst-Enemy)
We definitely 'got the wrong Attorney General'. And look at the circular logic in the last sentence. This cannot be allowed to get out of Congress.
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What is the bill number?
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This was from HR 1022 introduced in 2007 by McCarthy. It seems this is what may be resurrected for Obama. And it doesn't sunset.
Last Action: Mar 19, 2007: Referred to the Subcommittee on Crime, Terrorism, and Homeland Security.
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What is the bill number?
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-1022
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Note that HR 1022 (how's that for irony) died in commitee but can and will show up in the next legislative session.
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Look at the sponsor and co-sponsors..... All have (D) next to their name.
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Note that HR 1022 (how's that for irony) died in commitee but can and will show up in the next legislative session.
Better die in committee again or a lot of political careers will die in 2 years.
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Update: Assault Weapons Ban Reauthorization Act of 2008
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h110-6257
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I am not looking for a compromise either. Strike it down, or get on with it so we KNOW who is not for us. I am done with compromise, as we are the only side that does the compromising, which is what is leading to the incrementalism.
-Bidah
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I am not looking for a compromise either. Strike it down, or get on with it so we KNOW who is not for us. I am done with compromise, as we are the only side that does the compromising, which is what is leading to the incrementalism.
-Bidah
Incrementalism.....exactly on point. By the way...haven't seen you around lately...welcome back.
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Just say NO!
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Just say NO!
LOUDLY, often and with no compromise !
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very good site, I signed up to track this bill and others,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks for the link.
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Frankly, this scares the crap out of me. This can go so far. They can even ban my muzzleloader, it is a copy of a firearm that was once used by the military. We have got to get organized and recruit more members for the NRA. I have gotten 2 to join up this week. I am doing my best. We all have to get as many members as possible before Jan hits. :( They can take this language and twist it anyway they see fit. Heck, even my 870 has been used and is still being used in military units, and law enforcement. What am I going to use to Turkey Hunt now?
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Heck, even my 870 has been used and is still being used in military units, and law enforcement. What am I going to use to Turkey Hunt now?
Well, obviously you can use the rope-stick-box method, or for the less affluent, just the rope/snare method. Until rope becomes a clear & present danger to..........something the anti's hold dear.
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There is not a gun ( or its dirivatives) that has not been used by miltary or police.
Lets just list some famous and popular guns
1911... mill and LEO
model 70... based on the mouser, mill( all "mouser claw extractors " AKA control round feed fits this bill,)
any push feed bolt rifle... US snipers currently use them... thats out.
win 1894, thats out too.
J frame... out
Model 12, out, so is every other pump shot gun.
1100, out
BAR rifles... out
AR, out
break action rifles and shot guns. out
muzzle loaders, out.
Single shot bolt action 22s, out
Bows and arrows, out
clubs, out
harsh words, out
Lets see that leaves us with hugs and good feelings.
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Hell, even "nonlethal" stuff like the Tazer is out.
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There is not a gun ( or its dirivatives) that has not been used by miltary or police..............
Lets see that leaves us with hugs and good feelings.
Somehow I knew we'd end up here with you. ;D
Just a joke....not a flame (this time 8) ).
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The tricky key to this comes in two parts:
#1 A military gun can get an exemption if it can be shown that it has a sporting purpose ... Where does it talk about sporting in the Second Amendment?
#2 As gun owners we are our own worse enemies. As the NRA and some of us take the "no give" stance we get marginalized by many, and there are many that will say it is ok to just have our Thompson Centers, and there is no need for AR's, and ...
If we do not have the stamina to fight hard and long we will implode and destroy ourselves as the libs push and squeeze.
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The tricky key to this comes in two parts:
#1 A military gun can get an exemption if it can be shown that it has a sporting purpose ... Where does it talk about sporting in the Second Amendment?
#2 As gun owners we are our own worse enemies. As the NRA and some of us take the "no give" stance we get marginalized by many, and there are many that will say it is ok to just have our Thompson Centers, and there is no need for AR's, and ...
If we do not have the stamina to fight hard and long we will implode and destroy ourselves as the libs push and squeeze.
That's the anti's point, has always been a big one in their play book - pass the laws, make us spend the money and time to fight the charges all the way to the Supreme Court. It is doubtful that any liberal judge would pre-empt these laws, but allow them to proceed, much like that mindless twerp on the bench in NYC who allows all of the anti-gun cases to proceed even when Congress says he can't. How many hundreds of thousands of dollars did it cost to overturn him just that once?
So they will pass their little laws, and direct the local constables to start the collection of all of the illegal firearms. Who cares if 5 years later the Supreme Court rules that they were wrong to do so? How many people in NO got their guns back from the illegal cop actions and from Nagin's illegal orders? How many Japanese-Americans got their lives back after FDR's illegal EO?
We need more - we need to take the fight to the libs and the anti's, be aggressive. A lot of the strategies discussed here are reactionary, waiting for the next round of attackes before acting. So long as we are on the defensive, we will be in a weaker position. Lots of things to do:
- After Heller, start hitting them - specific groups such as Brady and others - with major big-money lawsuits for violation of the 14th Amendment as well as violations of our civil rights - the 2nd Amendment. Sue them!
- Challenge ignorant statements by politicians, let them know that we are watching and will vote accordingly
- Threaten to sue - better yet sue! - any mayor who gets into bed with Bloomberg.
- Let the police chiefs and sheriffs know that lawsuits will be heading their way if they even think of obeying illegal orders.
- Be relentless.
- Use the press - as much as they will allow themselves to be used - co-opt them, take them shooting and put a human face on the "enemy". Get stories published that work against the EBR mindset.
Any other ideas?
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The tricky key to this comes in two parts:
#1 A military gun can get an exemption if it can be shown that it has a sporting purpose ... Where does it talk about sporting in the Second Amendment?
scope deer rifle... no its not, its a highly accurate sniper rifle.
that 17 rem varment guns is also a bullet proof penatraiting cop killer.( 17 rem, which is tiny goes through a vest like its not even there)
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There is not a gun ( or its dirivatives) that has not been used by miltary or police.
Lets just list some famous and popular guns
1911... mill and LEO
model 70... based on the mouser, mill( all "mouser claw extractors " AKA control round feed fits this bill,)
any push feed bolt rifle... US snipers currently use them... thats out.
win 1894, thats out too.
J frame... out
Model 12, out, so is every other pump shot gun.
1100, out
BAR rifles... out
AR, out
break action rifles and shot guns. out
muzzle loaders, out.
Single shot bolt action 22s, out
Bows and arrows, out
clubs, out
harsh words, out
Lets see that leaves us with hugs and good feelings.
this brings up a sore point for me TAB...
I live in Peru, I carry (legally) in Peru. but I am limited by what I can can own and carry. NO military firearms, rounds etc...
SO....... what does that leave me? I would like to carry something else more effective than my .380 (though I do like my Bersa). but the law says I can only carry short barrel (3 - 3.5") and 9mm or less (non parabellum). so.. my gripe is that ALL rounds have been used by either military or Law enforcement somewhere in the world. So.. if I can carry one round why can't I carry the next? it's slower and heavier, etc...
I can see somethig like this happeneing here in MY country in the near future. I want to buy a FN FAL L1A1, will I be able to use it in the future? Peru, only sells carbines, no full size rifle. they're afraid of the terrorists. also they tax the s^!^ out of ammo ($.80 per round of .380). they do this because they don't want it so easy for the criminals and terrorists to get weapons and ammo.
So.. here we are, the law abiding citizen (or resident, as I am) is shut out by regulations and prices. ouch....
it is cheaper and easier for me to go to the black market and get everything I want,....... illegaly.
Luckily.. I can afford to buy a gun legally and put up with all the beuracratic bs. I only hope that my own country doesn't end up being this bad or worse.
anyway, my hazarita induced rant is over,
thank you,
Deepwater....
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It is time for us to draw a line in the sand.
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It is time for us to draw a line in the sand.
We need to organize !
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Why will any American political administration be less than enthusiastic in support of the Second Amendment?
Deepwater:"I can see somethig like this happeneing here in MY country in the near future. I want to buy a FN FAL L1A1, will I be able to use it in the future? Peru, only sells carbines, no full size rifle. they're afraid of the terrorists. also they tax the s^!^ out of ammo ($.80 per round of .380). they do this because they don't want it so easy for the criminals and terrorists to get weapons and ammo." Substitute :The People: and you have it!
Governments are installed to lead the masses (you and me). Where the political system has tolerated institutionalized elected officials occupying the same office for years and years, less and less respect for us is shown and less input from back home makes their job of managing us easier. Armed constituents? They know where you live?? Oh, my..
The Second Amendment was designed as a direct action response to tyrannical government, which we do not now endure in large measure, but government will never be comfortable resting the final decision as to when enough is enough with an armed citizenry. Government reaction thus far has just been to take the position that the Second Amendment is a "collective" right, and as such, may be legally curtailed as government deems necessary at any time in the future. Government CANNOT abandon that position, as it would actually cede control of power back to the people, like it used to be when the ink of the Constitution was still drying.
Government is continuing to look after it's own best interest. I don't think that will ever change. Just the way it is.
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Something else to think about... CA has twisted the no ammo that can be used in a hand gun til your 21 to mean every metalic chambering... since you can buy hand guns for them( not in CA) I'm pretty sure they will make 410 that way as well since the judge( which you can not buy here) shoots them.
You know its funny, I was all " no back ground checks... no infringment what so every... blah, blah, blah"
until I worked 2 years in a large and active gun store.
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You know its funny, I was all " no back ground checks... no infringment what so every... blah, blah, blah"
until I worked 2 years in a large and active gun store.
So ...
What is your stance now, and what was the reason for the change?
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my stance is back ground checks are fine, they should be instant( say 15 mins tops) and it should be cash and carry. CCW should require some training.( which should be provided by the Local LEA at little to no cost)
No weapon signs should have the full wait of law behind them ( texas 30.06 comes to mind) if a upstanding citz can't own it/ do it, then niether should the police. States have the right to choose which states CCWs are good in thier state.
I think that pretty much covers the major ones.