The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on November 29, 2008, 12:54:53 PM
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http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3733021
New York Giants receiver Plaxico Burress suffered an accidental gunshot wound Friday night in a club, according to multiple sources.
Fox Sports.com and the New York Daily News reported that Burress accidentally shot himself in the leg and spent the night in the hospital.
Details of the incident weren't immediately available, but according to a source the wound was not considered life-threatening.
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Doesn't surprise me. If the guy's ego was just a little bigger he'd be T.O.
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+ 100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
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"According to police, Burress could face criminal charges if he was not licensed to carry a concealed weapon in New York."
:-X
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"According to police, Burress could face criminal charges IF he was not licensed to carry a concealed weapon in New York."
:-X
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And IF he was foolish enough to keep the gun.
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And IF he was foolish enough to keep the gun.
It doesn't matter if he kept the gun or not. Unless, that is, his leg presses charges and he tries to beat the rap. ;D
Swoop
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They just said on local NY radio that police will probably be pressing criminal charges against this idiot in the morning. Good..............coming from someone who has an unrestricted NYC and NY State carry permit, and knowing what I went through to get them, he deserves whatever he gets. There is no worse place in the country to try something as stupid as carrying an illegal gun. As we all know, guns just don't go off by themselves. I can just see this guy showing it off in the club, or something to that effect, and next thing you know it goes off.
Bottomline......he doesn't have a leg to stand on.................... :)
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It never fails to amaze me how people can have every thing going for them, yet they risk it all on stupid stuff.
If I was getting paid Millions a year, I would do what ever my employer wanted( assumung we are talking a legal biz here) and go out of my way to make sure I stayed out of trouble.
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The more I think about this, the more I realize that Burris is an idiot on so many levels.....
CWP or not, this guy should never ever carry a gun. Yes, he is a high profile celebrity with a huge bank account so he is definitely a target. BUT! He has more money then most Americans can even fathom. He should pay someone to carry a gun for him. He should hire a professional security detail when he goes to places like that (or when ever he feels its necessary), and then he would not have to worry about a thing.
He wouldn't have to bother getting a permit..... He wouldnt have to worry about the legal repercussions of an accidental discharge..... He wouldn't have to worry about going to jail for a "bad shoot"..... he would probably also remove himself from the majority of the legal responsibility for a "good shoot"..... and he wouldnt have to process the mental stress of having to take someone's life.
Hey Plaxico, here is an idea..... outsource it!
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Never considered pro atheletes as the brightest bulbs in the rack and this guy just confirms that for me. At least he shot himself and not someone else...just another dumbass jock!
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They just said on local NY radio that police will probably be pressing criminal charges against this idiot in the morning. Good..............coming from someone who has an unrestricted NYC and NY State carry permit, and knowing what I went through to get them, he deserves whatever he gets. There is no worse place in the country to try something as stupid as carrying an illegal gun. As we all know, guns just don't go off by themselves. I can just see this guy showing it off in the club, or something to that effect, and next thing you know it goes off.
Bottomline......he doesn't have a leg to stand on.................... :)
Yes he does, but ONLY ONE ;D
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Yes he does, but ONLY ONE ;D
Hey! Leave PegLeg out of this!
;D
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Further update
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/giants/2008/11/29/2008-11-29_giants_receiver_plaxico_burress_accident.html?page=0
"As Burress was being led into a VIP area, with a drink in his hand, the gun slipped down his pants leg. He reached for the weapon, but fumbled it and it went off, sources said."
Automatic DQ. ;D
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AP reports that Burress will be charged with criminal possession of a handgun and will turn himself into the NYPD tomorrow......AND plead not guilty.......... ::)
In NYC?...........lots of luck Plaxico.
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/27968336/#storyContinued
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1st prediction. Old Plexiglass Burrows, from the Stupid Bowl Champ Giants, will pay a huge fine and will get a suspended sentence so as not to adversly effect the Giants season....
Any one of us, at least in MA would be at least a year in jail, maybe more....
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Never considered pro atheletes as the brightest bulbs in the rack and this guy just confirms that for me. At least he shot himself and not someone else...just another dumbass jock!
not all of them are idiots, people like Steve Young, were in post grade studys while he was playing for BYU. I think it should be a pre req for pro sports, no college degree... you can't play.
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not all of them are idiots, people like Steve Young, were in post grade studys while he was playing for BYU. I think it should be a pre req for pro sports, no college degree... you can't play.
In the thirty five years I've been working, I've met hundreds of degreed engineers that I consider BONEHEADS. A college education has nothing to do with intelligence, IMHO... Intelligence is genetic.....you either have some or you don't...we graduate 1,000,000 students every year that can't read above an eighth grade level.....
As far as pro sports, the only ones left without steroids and gang bangers are Curling and Badminton.....
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not all of them are idiots, people like Steve Young, were in post grade studys while he was playing for BYU. I think it should be a pre req for pro sports, no college degree... you can't play.
Please. The colleges will just expand the 'communications major' category for the athletes to get them to their school. My college team actually arranged for athlete's work to get done for them if they had the IQ of a world class sprinting rock.
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Please. The colleges will just expand the 'communications major' category for the athletes to get them to their school. My college team actually arranged for athlete's work to get done for them if they had the IQ of a world class sprinting rock.
+100
"Mouth Breathing 101" ;D
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1st prediction. Old Plexiglass Burrows, from the Stupid Bowl Champ Giants, will pay a huge fine and will get a suspended sentence so as not to adversly effect the Giants season....
Any one of us, at least in MA would be at least a year in jail, maybe more....
Its a mandatory minimum of 3 1/2 years.
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Its a mandatory minimum of 3 1/2 years.
Good, let's hope the law is equitable for all classes of people, including celebraties....doubtful though.
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In the thirty five years I've been working, I've met hundreds of degreed engineers that I consider BONEHEADS. A college education has nothing to do with intelligence, IMHO... Intelligence is genetic.....you either have some or you don't...we graduate 1,000,000 students every year that can't read above an eighth grade level.....
As far as pro sports, the only ones left without steroids and gang bangers are Curling and Badminton.....
I was one, don't have to tell me... Lots of idiot engineers out there... only profession thats worse is Doctors... Now there are some really, really dumb people.
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I was one, don't have to tell me... Lots of idiot engineers out there... only profession thats worse is Doctors... Now there are some really, really dumb people.
+100.... Sad but true...I have the scars and the pain to prove it.....
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I was one, don't have to tell me... Lots of idiot engineers out there... only profession thats worse is Doctors... Now there are some really, really dumb people.
Hey, I resemble that remark! >:( Seriously though, the profession maintaining the highest number of idiots, absolutely has to be law. I have known several attornies that I would not think capable dressing themselves without supervision.
Swoop
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Hey, I resemble that remark! >:( Seriously though, the profession maintaining the highest number of idiots, absolutely has to be law. I have known several attornies that I would not think capable dressing themselves without supervision.
Swoop
+1 on law being the worst IMO whether it's lawyers or LEOs. It sucks big time when you're in the military and the first time you see your JAG lawyer she laughs hysterically and says, I've just been DYING to meet you!!! That happened to me and I had to hire a civilian lawyer. It also sucks to pay a lawyer big bucks for bad advice and find out later he's a crack-head. That also happened to me. I've had bad experiences with lawyers and cops. If this guys lawyer is anything like mine he's in serious trouble.
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It sucks big time when you're in the military and the first time you see your JAG lawyer she laughs hysterically and says, I've just been DYING to meet you!!! That happened to me and I had to hire a civilian lawyer. It also sucks to pay a lawyer big bucks for bad advice and find out later he's a crack-head.
That's too funny, jumbofrank! Sounds like something you'd see in a Farrelly brothers movie. You're setting on a possible fortune if you take the time to write the screenplay. Just remember I suggested it when your rich and famous. ;D
Swoop
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Hey, I resemble that remark! >:( Seriously though, the profession maintaining the highest number of idiots, absolutely has to be law. I have known several attornies that I would not think capable dressing themselves without supervision.
Swoop
Well, if that is the case it just reemphasizes how retarded the idiots we have in Washington are...... after all, the vast majority of politicians are lawyers!
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Oh no! It was a Glock! Maybe he was just trying to field strip it. :- O
A law enforcement official told The New York Times that the gun was a Glock semiautomatic pistol and that it had been recovered from the football star's New Jersey home.
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Oh no! It was a Glock! Maybe he was just trying to field strip it. :- O
A law enforcement official told The New York Times that the gun was a Glock semiautomatic pistol and that it had been recovered from the football star's New Jersey home.
Of course it was -- they are evil and can go off without warning at any moment in time without any provocation from an outside force!
BANG! Oh damn it. Mine just went off...... again!
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_crime/2008/12/01/2008-12-01_mayor_bloomberg_fuming_over_plaxico_shoo-3.html
A fuming Mayor Bloomberg said Monday he wants Giants player Plaxico Burress prosecuted "to the fullest extent of the law" for accidentally shooting himself in his leg with an illegal handgun.
The mayor also called on prosecutors to throw the book at officials of the Giants and New York-Presbyterian Hospital Weill Cornell for reportedly not alerting police about the shooting immediately, as required by law.
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Washington Post sports columnist uses this story to go on a 2nd amendment bashing rant:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120101335.html?hpid=topnews
(http://media3.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/photo/2007/09/07/PH2007090702247.gif)
By John Feinstein
At the root of incidents like this is a simple fact: athletes -- and many others -- own guns not because they feel unsafe, but because they like them. They like owning them and talking about them.
The owners and players should agree that players can't own handguns. That won't prevent players who like to hunt from hunting. If a player feels unsafe for any reason, he can ask his team to provide security -- all NFL teams have good-sized security forces, most of them retired law enforcement officials -- or they can hire their own security guards.
Now, let's not start screaming about the Second Amendment. To begin with, the amendment should be abolished -- a sensible interpretation of the amendment is that it was written to allow the people to raise a militia for protection and to hunt for food. Clearly no one needs to raise a militia these days, and those who hunt for a living can be licensed to do so.
It would be nice if President-elect Obama had the time to focus his energies on repeal of the Second Amendment, but he first has to deal with a broken economy and the incredibly wrong-headed war started by his predecessor. What's more, the issue of gun rights causes almost as much screaming from the right as abortion rights, the irony being that those yelling the loudest about the right to life are usually those yelling almost as loud about their right to carry weapons that kill.
The Second Amendment isn't going to be abolished any time soon. That should not prevent the NFL -- and all sports leagues -- from taking handguns away from their players.
It is no more unconstitutional to say players can't own guns than it is to say they must be subjected to drug testing when there is no evidence they have used drugs, or saying they can be fined for speaking their mind about officiating.
So let's not use the constitution as an excuse.
Contact info:
letters@washpost.com
Main Number: 703.469.2500
What Mr Feinstein doesnt understand:
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
-- George Mason
"It is, of course, no coincidence that the right to have guns is one of the earlier freedoms outlined in U.S.A.'s Bill of Rights. Without guns in the hands of the people, all the other freedoms are easily negated by the State. If you disagree with that statement, ask yourself if the Nazis could have gassed millions of Jews, had the Jews been armed with rifles and pistols -- there weren't enough SS troops to do the job. Lest we forget, in the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising of 1944, a couple of hundred Jews armed with rifles and homemade explosive devices held off two fully-equipped German divisions (actually about 8,000 men) for nearly two months."
-- Unknown
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Here are some bon mots from the column, and then the link.
o begin with, the amendment should be abolished -- a sensible interpretation of the amendment is that it was written to allow the people to raise a militia for protection and to hunt for food. Clearly no one needs to raise a militia these days, and those who hunt for a living can be licensed to do so.
It would be nice if President-elect Obama had the time to focus his energies on repeal of the Second Amendment, but he first has to deal with a broken economy and the incredibly wrong-headed war started by his predecesso
So let's not use the constitution as an excuse. If the NFL owners are concerned about guns -- and they should be -- they need to make the union understand why it is important that it be concerned, too. Baseball, basketball and hockey should do the same thing. The leagues need to do something about their players and their guns.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120101335_2.html?hpid=topnews
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Mr. Feinstein is a Jackass!
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A picture is worth a 1000..........well....you know.........
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Fienstein, a Jew against guns. I wonder if he is against the 1st Amendment as well, or if he is just against it when it contradicts what he wants, like b-ho. I wonder if he is against railroads and fence makers as well. Those things did as much to kill Jews in WWII as did the guns, if you believe some peoples "logic." I don't understand it. And don't get me wrong, I am NOT anti-Semitic in any way! Israel, and it's citizens, is a nation I admire almost as much as I do the USA. I just wonder how so many people are so indifferent to history, and the facts.
Sorry, rant over for now.
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All they have to do is put in the contract, " gun= fired" thats all it would take.
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Was watching Monday Night Football last evening and just got madder and madder about this. Plexico's agent was on, but it was worthless. He didn't say anything, but there isn't anything he can say with the legal issues and Plexico's football career at stake. However, the idiot heads from ESPN felt the need to play good commentator bad commentator with the guy. It was alternating questions from Mike (good) and Tony (bad) over what happened and what will the future be, to what was he doing with a gun and why would anyone have a gun.
The worst part was the constant scroll across the bottom that reported Plexico was shot ... Get it right - The idiot shot himself - call it the self inflicted (accident or not) injury that it is. The other is that he has been charged with two counts of illegally carrying a firearm. If found guilty it is a mandatory 3.5 year sentence. What about the discharge of the gun and endangerment to others?
I am as much against infringements of our Rights as anyone, and one of the dangers against us is when law breakers don't pay the price. This guy was wrong on so many levels, and there is a battle between sports nuts to let him off and gun control to punish us all. In my opinion we need to make sure Plexico pays the price for the crimes he committed, or we have no stance for the enforcement and refinement of existing law before enacting new control laws.
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Okay, Plaxico Burress made a mistake. The problem though is the State and City of New York with its draconian antigun laws. There is no reason the man should be facing felony charges. He is though because New York has no respect for the RKBA. Burress has earned his public ridicule, but what the State is now doing to him is the crime. You may laugh and think he is getting what he deserves, but one day the same antigun machine may be coming after you. Whether Burress is smart or not is not the point. The point is New York hates guns and will harm anyone caught up in its snare of bad laws. Those laws need to be repealed or reformed, but I seriously doubt anyone has the ability to do so. It is too bad for Mr. Burress. It is too bad for all of us.
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Trevor,
I agree that the laws suck, but they are the laws. Plexico broke the law and must pay some price for it. I stated how I felt about the maze of bad laws and needing to clean them up, but I also believe that before they pass anything new (which is our ultimate concern right now) they need to enforce what they have.
Regardless of what they do with the carry issue, (which is what the two charges are now) they need to do something about the reckless discharge and endangerment. The actual discharge and endangerment is an issue that will never leave the books, and I don't think should when dealing with stupidity.
The media needs to quit saying that he was shot ... The idiot shot himself!
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Instead of banning guns, how about we ban the possession of computers and typewriters by idiots and liberals? (Yes, I DO know that is a redundancy)
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I finally found the time to send Mr Feinstein (D) a nice little email today :)
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Mike Ditka proclaims that the NFL should bar players from owning guns too:
http://www.serioussportsnewsnetwork.com/2008/12/pacman-to-ditka-from-my-cold-dead-hands.html
NEW YORK, NY — Mike Ditka’s made an unusual—and probably unconstitutional—suggestion on “NFL Countdown” yesterday that the NFL should bar all players from owning guns, following Plaxico Burress’ arrest following an incident involving a handgun went largely unnoticed by the mainstream media, but did not escape the attention of certain gun enthusiasts who suit up every Sunday.
Ditkas actual words:
"This is all about priorities. When you get stature in life, you get the kind of contract, you have an obligation and responsibility to your teammates, to the organization, to the National Football League and to the fans. He just flaunted this money in their face. He has no respect for anybody but himself. I feel sorry for him, in the sense that, I don't understand the league, why can anybody have a gun? I will have a policy, no guns, any NFL players we find out, period, you're suspended."
This is the crap part.... Why in the hell is NRA President associating with Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson?:
Ditka’s proposal drew almost immediate ire from some of the NFL’s most colorful characters, including one Adam “Pacman” Jones.
“The Second Amendment to the Constitution of the United States guarantees the People’s right to bear arms,” Jones announced at a press conference. “Mr. Ditka’s proposal to strip all professional football players of their God-given right to self-defense is nothing less than communism.”
Jones, who was involved in an infamous shooting at a Las Vegas strip club back in 2007 which left a man partially paralyzed, was joined by associates “Tank” Johnson, Marvin Harrison, and NRA president John C. Sigler.
“‘Laws that forbid the carrying of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes …they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.’ You know who said that? Thomas f***ing Jefferson, that’s who,” announced Tank Johnson, who has been arrested several times for unlawful gun ownership, to stunned reporters.
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What about cars?
Remember that Randy Moss hit a police officer with his.
It wasn't an accident either! They were controlling taffic, and he got tired of waiting. He just drove forward and pushed the officer. Jack Ass got away with it too >:(
I won't go into the number of athletes up here that have had DUI's or the one that was killed when he flipped his car on a clean dry road.
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This is the crap part.... Why in the hell is NRA President associating with Pacman Jones and Tank Johnson?:
That is a good question that needs to be answered! We do NOT need to be associated with those convicted of crimes involving firearms. This is as bad as a Lon Haruchi (sp) endorsement! Why not ask OJ to endorse the 2A for football players.
What the HELL was he thinking?
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That is a good question that needs to be answered! We do NOT need to be associated with those convicted of crimes involving firearms. This is as bad as a Lon Haruchi (sp) endorsement! Why not ask OJ to endorse the 2A for football players.
What the HELL was he thinking?
I've been trying to find it elsewhere to confirm it through another source but cant find anything else yet.... The Ditka part is 100%
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Hey! Leave PegLeg out of this!
;D
Hey Haz, I could loan him one of my spare legs....I have two in the closet.......... ;D
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Giants' Steve Smith robbed at gunpoint
http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2008/12/giants_receiver_steve_smith_ro.html
http://www.silive.com/sports/index.ssf/2008/12/giants_steve_smith_robbed_at_g.html
Just as the team began sorting through the details of Plaxico Burress's shooting incident on Friday night, news of another Giant involved in a gun crime emerged on Tuesday.
According to the Newark Star-Ledger, Steve Smith, a second-year player for the Giants, was held up at gunpoint outside of his home in Clifton New Jersey last week.
Smith was returning home to his gated community around 4 a.m. on Nov. 25 when an assailant approached him from behind with a gun. "The perpetrator said, 'Give me everything you got,' and Mr. Smith did turn over his jewelry and cash," Det. Capt. Robert Rowan said. "The incident is still under investigation."
Smith was unavailable for comment. The Giants confirmed that Smith was involved in a robbery on Sunday after former running back Tiki Barber first reported the news on NBC, saying that receiver Plaxico Burress was aware of the crime when he brought a handgun to a Manhattan nightclub on Friday.
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And now the rush is on to make the case that all guns are bad and that CWP carriers are a threat to society (consider the source):
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-helmke/plaxico-burress-shoots-hi_b_147862.html
If we are to believe the gun lobby propaganda, that made Burress the classic "law-abiding citizen" that all Americans should trust to carry a loaded, hidden handgun anywhere, at any time in public - someone who is supposedly educated about the laws regulating where and how he can carry his firearm, and who won't accidentally shoot himself in the leg.
Obviously that wasn't the case.
The gun laws in New York and New Jersey (Burress's reported state of residence) are some of the strongest in the country. They work to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people, helping both states rank among the five with the lowest gun death rates in America (Note that they cant give a source to back up that claim).
On the other hand, Florida's gun laws are notoriously weak. In just this year alone, according to news reports, Florida concealed carry permit-holders have been charged in at least two murders and a manslaughter; another apparently had an illegal drug record; another was arrested for impersonating a police officer; at least four others shot themselves in gun accidents (here, here, here, and here). These are just published reports. Almost certainly, many more go unreported every month - and not just in Florida.
What these incidents show is that some people who we're led to believe are responsible, law-abiding gun owners - people like Plaxico Burress - can still exhibit dangerous behavior with firearms in public every day. The fact that most gun owners really are responsible, law-abiding citizens only highlights the risk of serious injury or death that a firearm in the wrong hands can cause.
This risk is borne by the public as much as by gun owners themselves, and the Burress incident is just one more example of how a gun kept for protection is often used against its owner instead.
Hopefully, we can all learn a lesson from this - guns are dangerous and gun ownership is a serious responsibility. Any one of us has the potential to make a mistake, get angry, or get drunk, which makes carrying loaded guns in public all the more dangerous for all of us.
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Let me preface this statement by saying, I LOVE football. However, the current anti gun movement running rampant in the NFL makes me sick. It's amazing how quickly they forget about Sean Taylor. Of course, he was not permitted to own a gun due to prior legal trouble and no I'm not advocating guns for felons, but if he had owned a gun he might still be alive and playing today. Just a year later, however, and now NFL players have no need to own guns. ???
Swoop
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As much as ABC news radio irritates me they got it right last night when I was driving home ...
" ... self inflicted, accidental gun shot wound ... "
You can't fix stupid, and you can't legislate yourself away from stupid, and you can't protect stupid!
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I'm sorry, but IMHO it takes a special kind of stupid to carry (LEGALLY OR NOT) into a bar (or anywhere else) where you will be consuming alcohol.
Gee, I can't IMAGINE how something could go wrong in THAT scenario!
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I'm sorry, but IMHO it takes a special kind of stupid to carry (LEGALLY OR NOT) into a bar (or anywhere else) where you will be consuming alcohol.
Gee, I can't IMAGINE how something could go wrong in THAT scenario!
Thanks TT for someone finally making the connection...Stupid people WITH alcohol, become STUPID-ER......!!!!
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I'm sorry, but IMHO it takes a special kind of stupid to carry (LEGALLY OR NOT) into a bar (or anywhere else) where you will be consuming alcohol.
Gee, I can't IMAGINE how something could go wrong in THAT scenario!
In my neck of the woods it is illegal to carry into any place that serves alcohol...... it is a stupid and redundant law because it is already illegal to consume alcohol while carrying (which is a good, common sense law)...... it leaves all the "never touch a drop of the stuff" people 100% unarmed if they desire to set foot in most restaurants.
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In my neck of the woods it is illegal to carry into any place that serves alcohol...... it is a stupid and redundant law because it is already illegal to consume alcohol while carrying (which is a good, common sense law)...... it leaves all the "never touch a drop of the stuff" people 100% unarmed if they desire to set foot in most restaurants.
Georgia just amended the law against carrying concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol. With a permit, you can carry as long as you don't imbibe while doing so.
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Georgia just amended the law against carrying concealed in restaurants that serve alcohol. With a permit, you can carry as long as you don't imbibe while doing so.
I don't drink but MA has a similar law on the books. Good thing I checked though cuz I've already eaten out whilst packing a roscoe, heat, smokewagon or sidearm, pick one!!! ;D
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In my neck of the woods it is illegal to carry into any place that serves alcohol...... it is a stupid and redundant law because it is already illegal to consume alcohol while carrying (which is a good, common sense law)...... it leaves all the "never touch a drop of the stuff" people 100% unarmed if they desire to set foot in most restaurants.
We have a similar law here in Iowa. Printed right on my permit are the words "not valid at any location where alcoholic beverages are served or consumed". While I understand and agree with the theory, the practice of denying me my right to self defense because someone ELSE is drinking is, IMHO, a bit ludircous.
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The bar is one of the places I want to carry. Not because I feel any more in danger there than other places, but look at the reports of where and when a lot of assaults happen - near the entertainment districts during the busy times. I do not go to the Cities without gun along, and I will not go out to eat or to a bar without one ... I just don't drink when carrying.
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The bar is one of the places I want to carry. Not because I feel any more in danger there than other places, but look at the reports of where and when a lot of assaults happen - near the entertainment districts during the busy times. I do not go to the Cities without gun along, and I will not go out to eat or to a bar without one ... I just don't drink when carrying.
Nice work if you can get it!
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The bar is one of the places I want to carry. Not because I feel any more in danger there than other places, but look at the reports of where and when a lot of assaults happen - near the entertainment districts during the busy times. I do not go to the Cities without gun along, and I will not go out to eat or to a bar without one ... I just don't drink when carrying.
I just stay as far away from the cities as I can. Going to bars was a previous lifetime, not one I care to revisit! I could live as far out in the boonies as I could possibly get and be a happy man. I'm thinking about SD or MT, maybe UT. Not too hot, not too cold.....
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I agree with you, but my job takes me to the Cities for meetings and continuing education (no smart ass comments from the peanut gallery :-X). Since we are stuck in the hotels in downtown Minneapolis or St. Paul everyone wants to go out. I get to be the designated driver since I don't drink up there.