The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: TAB on December 01, 2008, 04:26:55 PM
-
Don't ever, use pistol powders in a rifle...just look at the pics in the OP.
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=66812
-
HOLY CRAP!!! :o
-
Don't ever, use pistol powders in a rifle...just look at the pics in the OP.
I know what you mean, and there's a good chance that the wrong powder was used in this case, but that's a broad statement. H110 and 2400 are example of "pistol" powders that are used with success in .30 Carbine as well as .223 for the lighter bullets.
-
Wow. Biggest point made is to never shoot reloads in a firearm that were not developed for it. I have thought of going into reloading custom ammo but not being to control what someone else will do with them is why I don't do it. Don't want to be hauled into court and pay for someone elses stupidity.
-
When I reload I take out ONLY the powder I plan to use and I measure each and every powder charge before I put it in the case. I might keep a copy of this to show the people who tell me I'm an Idiot for not buying a progressive.
-
Warhawke, I also measure each powder charge. I use a Lee powder measure but it is so inconsistent, up to 1/2 gr deviation, that I measure each powdercharge. Consistent powder charges makes for safe and consistent load performance.
-
When I reload I take out ONLY the powder I plan to use and I measure each and every powder charge before I put it in the case. I might keep a copy of this to show the people who tell me I'm an Idiot for not buying a progressive.
your an idiot...
If it was not for a good progressive press, no way would I reload. with a single stage or turret I would lose money doing it.(in other words I'd make more money working then I would reloading) you really can't double charge rifle cases, with rifle powders( general statment). hand gun yes. A realy simple way to check to make sure you have the right charges etc is every 5 or 10 wieght a completed cartrage and every 25 or check the powder throw. I personally check every case with a case guage, but thats just me.
Most of the probs people have with progressives are them not paying attention or not working the press correctly( short stroking, forget to index, both of those have easy fixs or press have check built in.)
I've done ~ 10k rounds since the start of the year, I have never had a charge be off by more then .1 grain and never had drastic OAL issuse.
of corse I do have a dillon 1050 and a kiss bullet feeder. ;D
-
We use a Dillon 650 progressive. We added a powder level check right away, but the only time we have had a problem is when we did something that caused a case to miss the powder fill. We have never had an double or over charge. We check the amount with a scale on a regular basis, and it is unbeleivable how consistant it is.
-
Warhawke, I also measure each powder charge. I use a Lee powder measure but it is so inconsistent, up to 1/2 gr deviation, that I measure each powdercharge. Consistent powder charges makes for safe and consistent load performance.
As long as you are not using Max loads I assume (Yes I know ;D )that you are more concerned with consistant performance since modern firearms are proofed with double or triple loads.
-
As long as you are not using Max loads I assume (Yes I know ;D )that you are more concerned with consistant performance since modern firearms are proofed with double or triple loads.
They aren't proofed THAT HIGH. Some are 15-20% higher pressure. A triple load of powder would be what? 10,000% higher pressure?
-
For the guys that use progressive presses. When reloading fired cases, do you prep your cases other than tumble clean prior to resizing? By case prepping, I mean: cleaning and truing primer pockets, trim to length and deburr case mouth. I do all of those and really don't mind doing them. Consistent accurate loads are more important to me than fast reloading. And also I do not reload in the quantities that a lot of you do.
-
For the guys that use progressive presses. When reloading fired cases, do you prep your cases other than tumble clean prior to resizing? By case prepping, I mean: cleaning and truing primer pockets, trim to length and deburr case mouth. I do all of those and really don't mind doing them. Consistent accurate loads are more important to me than fast reloading. And also I do not reload in the quantities that a lot of you do.
Ture handgun loads I do not. I do check each case to besure it is free of debris and not cracked, but I do not further process between cleaning and reloading. Rifle cases are tumbled and then processed to what ever level of detail I wish prior to the press.
-
I have considered going to a progressive press, mainly a Dillon, but have not due to the issue of case prepping. Not sure if anymore but at one time New Zealand was loading ammo for use in Palma Matches with Dillon presses and match requirements are that you have to use issued ammo. But with new brass. To me that says a lot for Dillon.
What I have learned is that for consistent accurate loads, case prepping is a major factor. I prep new brass and always find variances in primer pocket depths, length, sizing, to me that makes for differences in performance. I do not sort by weight. At one time I was measuring case thickness just ahead of the web, marking the case and orienting each round in the rifle according to the mark. The theory being that it would minimize performance variances caused by case thickness variance. I would also sort by load round concentricity at the bullet. Though I do not shoot for ity-bitty groups anymore, I still want my ammo to be as consistent as possible. Maybe one of these days, I'll find the answer and go to a Dillon.
-
I have considered going to a progressive press, mainly a Dillon, but have not due to the issue of case prepping. Not sure if anymore but at one time New Zealand was loading ammo for use in Palma Matches with Dillon presses and match requirements are that you have to use issued ammo. But with new brass. To me that says a lot for Dillon.
What I have learned is that for consistent accurate loads, case prepping is a major factor. I prep new brass and always find variances in primer pocket depths, length, sizing, to me that makes for differences in performance. I do not sort by weight. At one time I was measuring case thickness just ahead of the web, marking the case and orienting each round in the rifle according to the mark. The theory being that it would minimize performance variances caused by case thickness variance. I would also sort by load round concentricity at the bullet. Though I do not shoot for ity-bitty groups anymore, I still want my ammo to be as consistent as possible. Maybe one of these days, I'll find the answer and go to a Dillon.
I have a friend that has won several national matches, and he does zero case prep. He cleans and inspects his cases and runs them through his Dillon. Once he gets his charge, bullet weight and over all length dialed in for the gun, he just cranks them out by the hundreds. Defies half of what many believe must be done, but it works for him and his gun.
-
I have considered going to a progressive press, mainly a Dillon, but have not due to the issue of case prepping. Not sure if anymore but at one time New Zealand was loading ammo for use in Palma Matches with Dillon presses and match requirements are that you have to use issued ammo. But with new brass. To me that says a lot for Dillon.
What I have learned is that for consistent accurate loads, case prepping is a major factor. I prep new brass and always find variances in primer pocket depths, length, sizing, to me that makes for differences in performance. I do not sort by weight. At one time I was measuring case thickness just ahead of the web, marking the case and orienting each round in the rifle according to the mark. The theory being that it would minimize performance variances caused by case thickness variance. I would also sort by load round concentricity at the bullet. Though I do not shoot for ity-bitty groups anymore, I still want my ammo to be as consistent as possible. Maybe one of these days, I'll find the answer and go to a Dillon.
I know a guy that only tumbles and cleans after several reloadings.
For now I still stick to my old single stage Lees.
I have a Dillon RL550 still new in the box. I have everything to load with it, just too lazy to clean off the space to set it up.
-
I have a friend that has won several national matches, and he does zero case prep. He cleans and inspects his cases and runs them through his Dillon. Once he gets his charge, bullet weight and over all length dialed in for the gun, he just cranks them out by the hundreds. Defies half of what many believe must be done, but it works for him and his gun.
That's great and more power to him. What kind of competition? The needs/requirements say of pistol matches and rifle benchrest shooting or long range rifle, are very different. In benchrest shooting, some competitors have their presses next to them and use one case and reload before each shot.
-
That's great and more power to him. What kind of competition? The needs/requirements say of pistol matches and rifle benchrest shooting or long range rifle, are very different. In benchrest shooting, some competitors have their presses next to them and use one case and reload before each shot.
Service rifle. Everything from 100 M to 600 M.
-
M58, a key comment that you made was "it works for him", that's great. What works for me is are the methods that I use, but I also want to learn as much as I can. Maybe I can find something new or different that I don't know about and might help. I have tried other methods like what have been talked about here, some work for me and some don't. I like to share what I know and hopefully someone else can use it.
-
I use a Dillon 650 for handgun rounds and a Lyman turret press for rifle rounds. I have a powder checker -- powder cop we call it -- on the Dillon. Works great for my handgun rounds. I shoot more of them. But for rifle, where I only shoot a few hundred a year, the Lyman works for me. For rifle I weigh each charge.
I am considering adding a .223 kit for the Dillon, but I still have a few cases of factory .223 and 5.56 to go through first for the brass.
I seem to be shooting a lot of .223 and .30 M1 Carbine lately.
-
It seems to me that the best method for each of us is the one that we are comfortable gives us the EACH the safest and most consistent acceptable for purpose results. If you are observing what you are doing a double charge should be obvious. But a double charge should not have had that disastrous an effect as most fire arms are proofed with double or more charges. Was it ever determined what exactly happened ?
-
I tend to treat bolt action rounds like a surgical instrument and do a lot of case prep, because the rifles were built for accuracy and lot of money invested in glass, barrels, stocks, triggers etc... I don't want to drive my race car on regular gas, don't want to feed my precision guns regular fodder.
Now having said that, my U.S. Service rifle coach, is a High Master, that means his scores as a rule are 98% or above in all conditions! 8) He loads on a Dillon 1,000, and has a good formula. He starts off with once fired brass, He only loads them 3 times, He uses Winchester primers because of the way they are oriented in the tray, cup side down, He then paints the primers with spray paint, white for the 1st loading, red for the 2nd and blaze orange for the 3rd, on the 3rd time he leaves the brass on the range. He is loading for the M1a and AR15, the Dillon does have an electric case trimmer.
I have 2 Dillon 550 b's set up for small and large primer that are primarily pistol. Loading for .308 for my M1a's works well, I have not tried .223 yet.
-
I may be looking at it wrong, but take a close look at the exploded round. Is that a belted round?????? It sure looks like it to me. I had a gun in the shop a couple years ago. It was a 30-06 Browning that someone had fired a belted round in. I asked the guy how he got it to chamber and he said he had to "whack" it in. I liked to have never got that bolt out.
-
I may be looking at it wrong, but take a close look at the exploded round. Is that a belted round?????? It sure looks like it to me. I had a gun in the shop a couple years ago. It was a 30-06 Browning that someone had fired a belted round in. I asked the guy how he got it to chamber and he said he had to "whack" it in. I liked to have never got that bolt out.
I thought it just ballooned out to form a ring. Is there a space in or behind the chamber where the brass could flow into that shape?
-
Talk about Fail
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=rRKP1OkR1fA&feature=related
-
WOW! :o They tried to reproduce this on the show where they do the torture tests (lab coat guys) but were not able to. Did it (tried) on mythbusters too. Here is actual proof it DOES happen.
-
mythbusters is a joke.