The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: gunman42782 on June 24, 2007, 07:35:20 PM
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I must confess, although I have owned just about every kind of gun you can think of, and have been shooting for over 25 years, I have never owned an AR type rifle, and have only shot one, a Smith and Wesson, and only one box of shells through it. So, I am looking to buy one before the lunatics in charge of the asylum decide us regular folks can't have one. So, who makes the best one for the money? I know I will probably get a dozens answers, but that is all right. The general consensus seems to be Bushmaster is one of the best for the money. I got a guy I work with that has a DoubleStar, but I have never, ever heard of them. Anybody have any experience with them? Also, do you think one with a chrome lined barrel is all that important? I have read yes, and no on this. Just looking to get all the angles before I buy one.
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I bought my first about a year ago; a Rock River Gov't model. Love it. Bought a stripped RRA lower for the same reasons you're looking now... Going to build it up as a 6.8 SPC. Based on my research and opinions of those I consulted, Rock River, DPMS, Bushmaster are all safe bets. YMMV.
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I second someguys post .
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I will agree with the above mentioned companies, I have a colt sp1, an sgw " olympic arms " lower with a colt upper, and a dpms, complete, although I built it. All function flawless and shoot well. RRA was extremely reasonable when they first appeared but went up sharply after the DEA, got their contract. Entry level rifles are still reasonable. I've yet to shoot a S&W mp 15, but have high hopes. AR15's are all about what you want the rifle to do for you and how far, how much are you willing to handload and develope. 200 meters and under with commercial less expensive ammo, and we are looking for center of mass body shots, your good, if you want head shots, we are going for more expensive ammo and probably a better barrel set up. Just my opinion.
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I must confess, although I have owned just about every kind of gun you can think of, and have been shooting for over 25 years, I have never owned an AR type rifle, and have only shot one, a Smith and Wesson, and only one box of shells through it. So, I am looking to buy one before the lunatics in charge of the asylum decide us regular folks can't have one. So, who makes the best one for the money?......
When I was purchasing AR's I went to my local gun dealers and asked which ones they were having returned....maybe you would want to do the same. Various production lines, contracts in the background, etc. all may have an impact. Without naming names, I was steered away from a couple of models...one for poor extractors and bolt mechanisms, another for poor fit, etc. I don't want to name names, because that was years ago and you just don't know unless you're talking current production. Except for one thing I will say, and that's because I don't own it, my local armorer never had a return on a Colt. I ended up purchasing something that was "just as good" for about $250 less.....
Not what you wanted, but I think if you have a relationship with a couple of gun shops, you can find out "what to avoid" in new production. Other than the common deficiency in a model/brand I think (here come the flames) they are all essentially the same....mil spec. A little cosmetic difference here and there some people will rail about...but basically the same.
My 2 cents (real copper...about a dime's worth today!).
By the way...several manufacturers have a 6 month waiting list to fill an order now....seems as though you're not the only one thinking along the lines of the lunatics in charge of the asylum.
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Some months ago I posed a similar question, as I was a dyed in the wool .308 shooter. I also became nervous about the inmates taking over the whole asylum instead of just two wings. I got the same responses - RRA, Bushmaster, and DPMS. One thing I can add, S&W are also up there in quality and performance, but carry a significant premium over regular ARs, made by Stag Arms I was told. The premium is about double the cost, the one I saw was $1200, with all the goodies (collapsible stock, front rails, etc.) it was $1700. The Sig 556 that is just out has everything for about $1200.
I ended up getting a DPMS A-15 - less than $700, and have not been disappointed.
You will be amazed at the sheer number of goodies, add-ons, tools, and repair parts marketed for this platform, though, especially compared to an M1A for example.
And like others, I am on a waiting list, five months to go supposedly, on a Sig 556. Ironic, just one year from the next Presidential election, assuming I actually get the word to pick her up in November. Here in ND, it will be an interesting break-in shoot, as November tends to be a little breezy and just a tad brisk. Not as bad as January, though . . . .
:D
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Thanks for all your help guys. Went out today and bought a Bushmaster. Here is a picture or two with a junky Tasco on it. Will do a report on it when I can.
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/gunman42782/100_1496.jpg)
(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/gunman42782/100_1497.jpg)
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(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/gunman42782/100_1499.jpg)
And here is my Mini head to head with my new AR.
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(http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l96/gunman42782/100_1499.jpg)
And here is my Mini head to head with my new AR.
looks to me like you have a thing for those tasco's to do an eval with garbage scope is one thing as long as its on both
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looks to me like you have a thing for those tasco's to do an eval with garbage scope is one thing as long as its on both
I am kind of cheap when it comes to scopes. I just can't see paying as much for the scope as I did for the gun!
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the only guy that i think will agree with you is D.R. Middlebrooks, but buying a good gun and cheap optics is the same as a good pistol with out sights. It can be shot well but 99% of the time with a better sighting system It can be shot much better. In most cases I have encountered the scope always cost more than the gun. Very few equal ratio on cost. And never any really good shooters with lesser$ scopes. Except this one Accurcy International guy. He has a used high end scope he picked up for a grand but payed a lot more for the rifle he saw on Shooting USA? Go figure. He is always top 5 shooter but has never won. Just my opinion man, I dont want to ruffle any feathers either. But a $100 tasco or a sub$200 Leupold and you will see a huge improvement with the Leupold. But for the test and eval. stick with the same setup for the best results.
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Shot both my Mini and the AR today. I think I have BRD bad! I loved it. Only complaint is that the trigger needs lightening, bad! Honestly, my Mini shot pretty dang good too today for some reason. But, I only shot it 10 round strings and then put it aside and rock and rolled with my AR. The AR hit with monontonus regularity. But, it seemed to live 50 grain bullets over 55. But, I started sighting it in with the 50 grainers and by the time I brought out the 55s it had several rounds through it, could be the reason. Anyway, most fun I have had in a long time shooting!
And that Kel-Tech I bought just keeps on hammering away too, by the way. Shot another box through her today. Makes a least 250 rounds with no malfunctions, and honestly, pretty decent accuracy for a gun this small!
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Shot both my Mini and the AR today. I think I have BRD bad! I loved it. Only complaint is that the trigger needs lightening, bad! Honestly, my Mini shot pretty dang good too today for some reason. But, I only shot it 10 round strings and then put it aside and rock and rolled with my AR. The AR hit with monontonus regularity. But, it seemed to live 50 grain bullets over 55. But, I started sighting it in with the 50 grainers and by the time I brought out the 55s it had several rounds through it, could be the reason. Anyway, most fun I have had in a long time shooting!
And that Kel-Tech I bought just keeps on hammering away too, by the way. Shot another box through her today. Makes a least 250 rounds with no malfunctions, and honestly, pretty decent accuracy for a gun this small!
thanks gunman sounds like it was a blast.
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I have a left handed Stag Arms, I think it is great.
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And that Kel-Tech I bought just keeps on hammering away too, by the way. Shot another box through her today. Makes a least 250 rounds with no malfunctions, and honestly, pretty decent accuracy for a gun this small!
Gunman, which Kel-Tek are you talking about?
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Gunman, which Kel-Tek are you talking about?
The PF-9 I had another thread about.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php?topic=361.0
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Also, do you think one with a chrome lined barrel is all that important? I have read yes, and no on this. Just looking to get all the angles before I buy one.
It has taken me decades to consider any type of AR platform gun as an addition to my personal inventory since my issue rifle was one of the early made-by-Mattel
variants.
Now that the uppers are available in a serious caliber-such as .308-I have developed a small hankering to fiddle with my own. I remain uneducated about the upper limit bullet weight (do they shoot 180 grain bullets?) and I remain skeptical about the number of fiddley parts and springs that must be cleaned or are subject to breakage, so I would argue ANYTHING that would make the rifle more reliable is a plus-especially a chrome barrel.
I had the opportunity to fire a fully automatic 9mm version back around 1998 and my opinion of the weapon remained unchanged from the opinion I held in the
seventies. Since the owner of the 9mm (a Colt, I believe) was gung ho on his weapon, I did not consider all of his information to be completely reliable.
In the circles I travel I have heard reasonably good reviews of DPMS and Bushmaster and I am leaning toward one of those as my first contemporary platform
rifle.
Best regards,