The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Ksail101 on December 05, 2008, 10:07:59 PM
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So it is that time of year again where old KSail gets to purchase a new firearm. I have really had my heart set on either a CZ 75B or BD (not sure) or a Beretta M9.
The reasons are numerous but to just list a few.
I want a reliable gun I can carry.
9mm for cheaper ammo,
I know the Beretta inside and out.
Jeff Cooper said the CZ 75 was one of the greatest handguns ever made.
and I like them both.
But for those that have handled these can you tell me which one you like. and with the CZ would you want the decocker or not?
So I guess this is another Vs. thread, but I will own one of the two very soon. (next week or so) and just want the family's thoughts.
I have about 800 to spend for gun mags and holster. I would like an AR so if I should just keep saving pennies tell me that as well.
I cant have both yet so just one.
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Why not the Glock ?
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I already have a G19 and carry it everyday and love it with all my heart. But I would like the Beretta cause I know it so well and am so comfortable already with it. And something in the Metal Frame business has caught my eye. I do like the G17 though. But I just want something else.
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Oh, When I read your post about the G 21 in the other thread I forgot you have mentioned before that that is your usual carry gun.
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And also Tom as much as I do love the 21SF I wont be able to shoot it as much. Around here 9mm is almost half what .45acp is. So I do love the 21, but it will have to be the one gun Iust over for a while. And that is ok. It keeps me motivated to go to work. ;D
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CZ is built for my hand and I like decockers.
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I have a CZ 75B and 2 92's. I would choose the CZ for your needs. It is a tad more compact, but may seem heavy, because of the steel frame. I would choose the CZ over all of my other 9's. Everyone I let shoot it loves it.
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You can guess which one I'll endorse (hint: screen name). I'm a cocked-and-locked kind of guy. I don't like that DA first round...I like the consistancy of each pull of the trigger being the same (I also get along with DAO...its about consistancy with me). As Haz mentioned...the CZ just fits in the hand well and comes up natural (for me). If you're a 1911 guy...the CZ will feel right at home.
Just my 2-1/2 cents.
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Bought a CZ 75B six months ago.
Solid, I mean solid like they used to make guns. Updated version of Hi Power.
Totally reliable and very accurate. Look at the rail system. The Baby Eagle 9MM is the best clone but rough and heavier. The 45 ACP version has better grip than the CZ 45ACP version.
I was told it takes about a thousand rounds to smooth out the trigger- suspect thats right, but a walk in the park for this gun.
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Ksail, get the AR 1st, but after that, I have a multitude of 9mm's, including CZ and Glock, I love my CZ75, it is an older military model without import marks brought in through Germany by a GI, it shoots good, and is completely reliable. The thumb safety is a reach for me, when cocked and locked, may not be for you, but try it. The main thing these days are extra mags, and what you are willing to pay for them. Since you already have a model 19 Glock, I would steer you to the model 17, or 34, and I can describe to you a simple modification to the frame where you can still use the 19 mags in a larger frame Glock.
Go ahead and find out what new CZ mags cost and the availability, being on the long list, they might not have increased that much yet, and still be readily available, I would buy 10, if you go that way. But if extra mags are 30 bucks or more, I would stick with the genre you have chosen. Glock. My CZ likes hot ammo, 124 grn carbine ammo, prints very well.
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The thing with me and the AR is such a love hate relationship. I look at it more as a tool for a job instead of a something to go have fun with. And with that said the ability to shoot it regularly will be much harder, I think, than another pistol. I got my beautiful lever action that if SHTF I know I can run and will be ok with. I have a lot of fun with my lever-gun too. So I dont know if I will have the same amount of fun with the AR. I love AR's and if I ran a school or was in the biz of teaching I would have multiple and use them frequently. But I feel if I was to get one I would let it sit and solely look at it as a tool to do a job not something to enjoy.
Although I could be looking into it way to far and I might just get an AR and never touch a pistol again...
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Personally, I hate the Beretta, I've seen too many issues with them. Yes I know, keep it clean, change the springs every x number of rounds, blah, blah. Forget it, won't own one. Now the Taurus PT-99 (which I owned) is ok, I bought it off a friend with upteen bazillion rounds shout through it and Taurus took it back and made it like new (I suspect they might have de-milled the original and issued a new one with the same serial number, but that is just supposition on my part). I liked it and shot it a bunch, but I traded it off long ago for something else. It was good but too bulky for me.
The CZ-75 is the shizzel (to use the vernacular), that is one of the best feeling weapons I have ever picked up. Sights falling effortlessly on target, bullets with the disturbing tendency to fall in the same hole (no, I don't think it's me I'm not that good), and CHEAP! (comparatively). The guys over at CZ forum like to swap out the factory springs for wolff (use the BHP recoil spring though, the CZ spring is actually for a Witness and is a bit bigger than required, most say #15 or #16). You can get a CZ-85 smooth trigger and spring replacement from this guy;
http://czcustom.com/catalog/index.php (http://czcustom.com/catalog/index.php)
and you will be good to go.
If you do want the CZ, get it, and get an AK with the change. Best of both worlds, new pistol and a rifle you can play with all day on the cheap.
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CZ is built for my hand and I like decockers.
What Haz said +1. Here's why.
I was at my department's holiday Christmas party yesterday, talking with a co-worker I knew had a CCW, talking about the gun show here next weekend. - with another in January. Anyhow, she was talking endlessly about the CZ75 she wanted for Christmas, how much she liked it, especially over a Glock.
Take it as a sign, Ksail - :D - go for the CZ and go for a decocker.
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Hi Ksail,
I don't have a CZ- would really like to get one someday soon. They are a real value in substance and engineering. When I bought my first handgun I was looking at CZs, but hadn't heard that much about them. I ended up with a Sig Pro 9mm, my first handgun which I still love and believe to be absolutely reliable.
My point is that the Sig is SA/DA with a decocker, and that is one of the reasons I bought it. I can't carry, but I feel like that system is a great pseudo-safety. In DA you really have to WANT to let that first shot go...the rest are easy and will be accurate. There's no way you'll ever have a AD in double action.
So I always recommend Sigs, but if you go that way with a CZ you will be a Happy Guy.
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I have had a 75B for quite a number of years and shot mine a lot. For a die hard 1911 guy, that is a compliment. I do not have the decocker, but I have run it using it SA mode only (aka 1911), and with the DA first shot. For a lot of people it comes down to preference. If lowering tihe hammer, manually, on a live round makes you squeamish, then get the decocker.
The 92 has a pretty large grip on it. The 75 fits my hand like it was meant to be there. The ONLY other pistol that fits better is the P01. That one feels like an extension of my hand..
There are a few places to get magazines, and the normal price is $20 for the Mec-Gar's. They are who make the factory magazines, and they work great. CDNN is usually your best bet. You can check out www.czforumsite.info.
-Bidah
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Want to go real small then get the Glock 26...... If you dont see the need for another Glock, then go with SIG. My first choice would be the 229:
(http://www.downrange.tv/reviews/data/19/229Rleft.jpg)
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I was issued M9s from 88 - 98, have owned several, and have seen many more civilian and LE 92s in action. Have owned several CZs and seen them in action around the world too.
Both excellent guns. I would give the Beretta the edge in reliability, the CZ in durability. If you are going to shoot it a lot (>25K), use it in action games, go w the CZ cuzz there is no locking block to break that needs fitting to replace.
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I've never tried either pistol, Had a bad experience with a clone of a single stack Beretta, so I would not get that myself.
You are already familiar with the Model 92 so you would know better than I weather the brass still lands on your head, But I have NEVER heard a negitive comment about CZ, not even as minor as that.
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I have had two Beretta 92's, boring. I bought mine shortly after the military went to them. Don't know how the new models are now. Would like to try the CZ's.
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A picture of my old military CZ 75, epoxy finish, no import marks, lanyard ring etc.. Smooth as butter and good shooting. I replaced the rear sight from one for a Springfield Armory p9, ( tangfolio ) because it shot low.
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/m25operator/100_1368.jpg)
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I got a hold of the local shop where I will most likely get my gun from and he says he has a used CZ 75B there and that I was more than welcome to put some rounds through it on Monday if it is still there. (It should be), So I will try it out and make my decision. I cant wait.
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I got a hold of the local shop where I will most likely get my gun from and he says he has a used CZ 75B there and that I was more than welcome to put some rounds through it on Monday if it is still there. (It should be), So I will try it out and make my decision. I cant wait.
Do the 75B. I have a 75B in 40, an SP-01 and a compact. Great guns. Put about 400 rounds downrange today with them.
There is something about an all metal frame as opposed to plastic.
I'm going to take you back to: http://www.best9mm.com/
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I got a hold of the local shop where I will most likely get my gun from and he says he has a used CZ 75B there and that I was more than welcome to put some rounds through it on Monday if it is still there. (It should be), So I will try it out and make my decision. I cant wait.
Second that. A used CZ 75B are usually a great buy.
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I'm sure the CZ's and other decocker type are great but with my hand configuration (short stubby thumb but completely normal) I can't find a good way to take off the safety or use the decocker or even have it modified so I can use it. DAO or 1911 with special modified thumb safety is the only way for me to go. I'm sure I'm missing some good stuff.
Richard
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I'm sure the CZ's and other decocker type are great but with my hand configuration (short stubby thumb but completely normal) I can't find a good way to take off the safety or use the decocker or even have it modified so I can use it. DAO or 1911 with special modified thumb safety is the only way for me to go. I'm sure I'm missing some good stuff.
Richard
Have you tried the decocker on a CZ by any chance? They are up and back out of the way, not where most decockers are.
-Bidah
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Bidah, yes, if it's out there I've tried it. Just to give you an example...I cannot get leverage (sp) on a Swenson ambi to take it off reliably.
Richard
PS: Even the CZ type competition TS does not work for me. Also, I cannot reliably open most if not all "thumb stud" type or Spyderco knives - need to use auto assist type or switchblades.
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But I have NEVER heard a negitive comment about CZ, not even as minor as that.
Here are a few issues I've seen w CZs:
Over the yrs some runs of guns have had weak recoil springs not to specs. Some had problems w slide stops/springs, would bounce and lock mags open w rounds still in mag. Roll pins breaking in models w firing pin block in slide when dry fired. Out of spec frame rails (first 20K of 40K ordered by PCR rejected for that reason, among others). Safeties too mushy or too hard... CZs were not in the running, but were evaluted by USAF and JSSAP in the late 70s, early 80s; they were good, but not great. The Tangfolio clones were considered in one of the various M10 trials (after the M9 slide fiasco) that Beretta won again.
Both have been around since 1975 w millions of each produced. Both have been copied, some runs of both have been better than others. I suspect if the CZ had not been a comm block pistol, had a decocker version sooner, etc, it would have done even better than it has in Military/LE sales.
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I think you should get an AR15 or other EBR first. Everyone should have at least one. If you aren't having fun with it try what I do; use it to make gravel out of cement blocks. :) Or swiss cheese some old appliances. That's fun for me and you might like it too.
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I think you should get an AR15 or other EBR first. Everyone should have at least one. If you aren't having fun with it try what I do; use it to make gravel out of cement blocks. :) Or swiss cheese some old appliances. That's fun for me and you might like it too.
Like lawnmowers?
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Like lawnmowers?
That's still on my "to do" list. ;)
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I used to have a CZ75 very nice gun actually. My brother in law forced me to sell it to him. I know its not a crunchenticker but I have been eyeing the SA EMP in 9 or 40. Haven't heard much about em lately tho. Not sure if that's good or bad.
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Do the 75B. I have a 75B in 40, an SP-01 and a compact. Great guns. Put about 400 rounds downrange today with them.
There is something about an all metal frame as opposed to plastic.
I'm going to take you back to: http://www.best9mm.com/
CZ or clone, they fit my hand like a glove. Serious competition to the way my 1911's feel.
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CZ or clone, they fit my hand like a glove. Serious competition to the way my 1911's feel.
1911 was Browning first handgun design while the Hi Power (on which the CZ 75 is based on) was his last handgun design.
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1911 was Browning first handgun design while the Hi Power (on which the CZ 75 is based on) was his last handgun design.
Wrong! Guess again. He designed about 10 other handguns before the 1911, and Dieudonné Saive finished the Hi-Power disign.
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Does anyone else's CZ 75B have the thumb rest grips. I actually like them fine, but my wife is a southpaw. I know that she'd love this gun with grips that worked for her.
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The thumb rest CZ grips are much thicker than the normal grips; the difference between the two is much greater than on the BHP grips. I like 'em on the BHP, not the CZ.
The CZ thumb rest grips are usually found on "contract guns" for LE/military. The Turks cancelled a big contract a few yrs ago, and a lot of CZs w those grips were discounted.
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I used to have a CZ75 very nice gun actually. My brother in law forced me to sell it to him. I know its not a crunchenticker but I have been eyeing the SA EMP in 9 or 40. Haven't heard much about em lately tho. Not sure if that's good or bad.
I've had my EMP 9 for a little under a year and I am very pleased with it - damn good thing considering what these little jewels cost. It is my primary CC and I take it to the range every time I go. So far it has delivered very good groups and no failures of any kind. The only changes I have made to it have been to replace the grips and replaced the ambidextrous safety with a single sided one (I don't care for the safety being exposed to accidental contact).
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Does anyone else's CZ 75B have the thumb rest grips. I actually like them fine, but my wife is a southpaw. I know that she'd love this gun with grips that worked for her.
Mine had the thumb rest grips (Turkish military). I pulled them off and slapped on some Hogue wrap-arpound monogrips. I can't say enough good things about them (especially for under $20).