The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: TAB on December 13, 2008, 08:11:34 PM
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anyone own a gun chambered in that bad boy?
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Never heard of it, but there have been about 15 different calibers designated 9mm over the years, I can think of 9X18, 9X19 9mm Kurz (.380 ) 9X23 9mm Largo, got a couple others tickling my memory but I can't pint them down.
Whats the specs on this one ?
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basicly a guy working at dillon was trying to make his comp on a race gun work better...once they droped the power factor down it pretty much went away.
it will push a 115 gr at 1800 out of a 6" pistol.
147 gr at about 1500 from a 6"
some of the <100 grainers are over 2000 fps
Its basicly a 357 sig, but they used the 10mm case instead of the 40.
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Must have a trajectory like a laser.
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i don't know, I've only ever seen one in action... I was intrested to know if they are " as advertised" when it comes to preformance.
That and I want one to make sarah brady wet her pants when she finds out how effective of a "cop killer it is"
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Pretty much like this little zipper
://www.brassfetcher.com/762x25mmJHPs.html
I know I was doubtful but the video link Haz posted made me a believer,
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot29.htm
I'm still carrying my 1911 though ;D
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the 762 x 25 just does not have enought mass...
All it would take for me to covert my DE to 9x25 is a barrel, bushing and spring...( fitting of corse)
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The 9x25 Dillon is a rocket no doubt, but if you ever shot next to one or had to range officer someone using it with a comp, ear plugs and headsets are not enough, the pressure from the comp to your face is incredible, the .357 sig in a Glock C class is very comparable behind the firing line. IT HURTS. It does make the compensator work well though.
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Found this on the net about the 9x25 Dillon:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=88388
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800+ ft/lbs ME. That's magnum territory. Sounds good to me.
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I believe TGO used it for a while.
Richard
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Sounds like it's great for targets but not much else, kind of like the .223 FMJ, punches little holes in soft targets.
But hey, .22's aren't worth much for fighting or hunting anything but fairly small game, but we all shoot a lot of them ;D
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Correct. A 9x25 is a 10mm case necked down to take a 9mm bullet.
If I could find a good surplus magazine for it, it would make one hell of a sub-gun round in an AR platform.
USSA-1
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Correct. A 9x25 is a 10mm case necked down to take a 9mm bullet.
If I could find a good surplus magazine for it, it would make one hell of a sub-gun round in an AR platform.
USSA-1
USSA-1 is on the mark, as usual.
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USSA-1 is on the mark, as usual.
A little off the mark IMO. H&K made a 10mm MP5 that would need a new barrel and probably no other modifications. If you want a sub-gun round, why not put it in a SMG instead of a rifle?
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A little off the mark IMO. H&K made a 10mm MP5 that would need a new barrel and probably no other modifications. If you want a sub-gun round, why not put it in a SMG instead of a rifle?
HK stopped producing the 10mm variant several years ago. There are an extremely few in private hands and good luck trying to find magazines for them. AFAIK, none were produced with 16" NFA legal barrels which means you'll have to go the SBR route, which is an added hassle. Depending on your State, that may not even be an option.
While all of this is technically possible, it would seem to be easier to use a pistol caliber AR upper with a mag block instead to going the HK route. Don't get me wrong, I love the HK 10mm. It was easily the best sub-gun ever produced. Plently of power, range, and capacity. It was a great subgun. I would wish I could acquire one.
USSA-1
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HK stopped producing the 10mm variant several years ago. There are an extremely few in private hands and good luck trying to find magazines for them. AFAIK, none were produced with 16" NFA legal barrels which means you'll have to go the SBR route, which is an added hassle. Depending on your State, that may not even be an option.
While all of this is technically possible, it would seem to be easier to use a pistol caliber AR upper with a mag block instead to going the HK route. Don't get me wrong, I love the HK 10mm. It was easily the best sub-gun ever produced. Plently of power, range, and capacity. It was a great subgun. I would wish I could acquire one.
USSA-1
How much difference in the MP-5 9mm and 10mm? Could you "role your own"? Curt Higgins at S&H Arms (just a few miles from USSA) might be able to build one from the 9MM...he specializes in H&K mods and Class III.
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Well, if it's not a SMG, I prefer a carbine designed for pistol size cartridges to use pistol length cartridges. I like rifle length cartridges in AR-15s. The way I figure it, if it's a rifle it should use rifle ammo, not pistol ammo, unless it's something like a Winchester '92. JMHO. I like rounds that fill the length of box magazines and mags that fill the mag well. Maximum efficiency.
Mech-tech CCUs are already made in 10mm so all you would need is a new barrel and you slap on your 1911 or Glock frame.
You could also ask Tim LeGendre to make one of his Mag-1 carbines in 9x25 Dillon instead of .45 Win Mag, etc. It would be close to the same power but have more penetration due to the skinny bullet.
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now that would be intresting... having a M1 in 9x25 dillon, but that would cost $$$$... a mp5 in it would be easy... but its going to cost alot more.
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The CCU with 16+ rounds on tap would be way cool too. 170mm mags hold 22 rounds. 8)
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I'd rather have a strait stock then a glock as a handle... they just never feel right in my hand.
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I'd rather have a strait stock then a glock as a handle... they just never feel right in my hand.
I hear ya. Traditional stocks feel great between your hands. The good thing about the pistol grip is being able to shoot one-handed if you need to or want too. I can handle anything up to 12 gauge one handed if it has a pistol-grip stock.
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Correct. A 9x25 is a 10mm case necked down to take a 9mm bullet.
If I could find a good surplus magazine for it, it would make one hell of a sub-gun round in an AR platform.
USSA-1
Olympic Arms is making an AR-15 based carbine chambered in 10 mm Auto:
http://www.olyarms.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=shop.flypage&product_id=54&category_id=7&manufacturer_id=0&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=37
What would it take for such a carbine to be converted to 9*25 Dillon?
Further more: As I understand it longer barrels work better with smaller calibers, i.e. .45 ACP with a 16" barrel is counterproductive on the muzzle velocity. Mind you, this is just hear say, just yell at me when I'm wrong. What I would like to know is what muzzle velocity and kinetic energy might you expect from a 16" carbine chambered in 9*25 Dollon, as compared to for example .45 ACP or 9mm Luger?
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How much difference in the MP-5 9mm and 10mm? Could you "role your own"? Curt Higgins at S&H Arms (just a few miles from USSA) might be able to build one from the 9MM...
No, the 40 S&W/10mm MP's is built on a different frame. No way to convert it over without major structural changes.
What would it take for such a carbine to be converted to 9*25 Dillon?
This would be the easiest conversion. Just get the 10mm upper and purchase a 9mm barrel. Ream the 9mm barrel and install it on the 10mm upper and your done. The issue is the magazines. Finding magazines that will run a 10mm cartridge and still fit into an AR magazine well is the real challange.
Further more: As I understand it longer barrels work better with smaller calibers, i.e. .45 ACP with a 16" barrel is counterproductive on the muzzle velocity. Mind you, this is just hear say, just yell at me when I'm wrong. What I would like to know is what muzzle velocity and kinetic energy might you expect from a 16" carbine chambered in 9*25 Dollon, as compared to for example .45 ACP or 9mm Luger?
The reason most pistol caliber rounds show only moderate or even slower velocities from carbine barrels has more to do with the type of powder used in their manufacture. Most pistol powders have a relatively fast burn rate. As such, gas pressure behind the bullet is usually starting to diminish as the bullet is exiting a 16" barrel. The drag of the bullet in the barrel starts to slow the bullet down before it exits the barrel. This is why most sub-gun barrels are in the 6"-7" range. Anything more is a waste as is does nothing for velocity and it creates a longer firearm which defeats the purpose of a subgun.
The 9x25 has a lot of case volume for use with slower burning powders. It would not surprise me to see velocities over 2,000 fps with the right loads from a 16" barrel.
USSA-1
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Several pistol calibers gain about 30% more energy in carbine barrels with factory ammo because of the higher velocities. 357 Mag is nearly double IIRC. The gas pressure pushes on the bullet longer and accelerates it more. In my own experience 185 grain .45 ACP +P performance is amazing in a 16" barrel compared to a 3-5" barrel.
Here are the velocity INCREASES, not decreases, Mech-Tech lists. All bullet weights in all the calibers they tried were FASTER.
Bullet Weight Barrel Length Min. Velocity Resulting Velocity
230 grain
5 inch
850 fps
1065 fps
200 grain
5 inch
950 fps
1212 fps
185 grain
5 inch
1000 fps
1260 fps
124 grain
4 1/4 inch
1150 fps
1465 fps
115 grain
4 1/4 inch
1175 fps
1513 fps
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Well, I have an 18 inch Puma in 45 Colt that adds 300 fps over same round from my Redhawk 5.5 inch.
My sons 20 inch Puma in 44 mag also adds 300 fps over his 6.5 S&W.
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Well, I have an 18 inch Puma in 45 Colt that adds 300 fps over same round from my Redhawk 5.5 inch.
My sons 20 inch Puma in 44 mag also adds 300 fps over his 6.5 S&W.
Have you seen any caliber come out of a carbine slower than a pistol?
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Have you seen any caliber come out of a carbine slower than a pistol?
Nope, but maybe there is an optimum speed at some other length like 9 or 12 or.....?
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Generally speaking 10" Contender barrels shoot faster than shorter pistol barrels, 14" barrels are even faster, 16-1/4" barrels are faster still. There may be some exceptions to that rule, but an experiment I read about where several barrels were connected end to end, it took not just inches but yards of barrel length to slow a bullet down significantly.
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I believe TGO used it for a while.
Richard
That's correct some years ago the 9x25 was the hot round in IPSC, it didn't last long. I remember ROing a couple of shooters at our local match, LOUD! I mean x2 hearing protection loud.