The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Wheelgun Dunn on December 19, 2008, 08:52:45 PM
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Well I did it! After a post on July 24th requesting opinions and thoughts on the Charter Arms Bulldog .44 Special I bought one and shot it. My original opinion was Charter was a piece of junk, but Michael and others spoke very highly of it so I figured I would give it a try. Hey, I have been wrong before why should this be any different? :D Many of you responded that it was a good gun and I appreciate all of your input. Anyway, I took it out to the range and stoked it with Magtech .44 special LRN cowboy loads as I have never shot .44 special and did not know what to expect in such a light frame gun. When I attempted to load all five cylinders I was unable to do so. One of the flanges on the ejector star was bent over the mouth of the cylinder preventing a cartridge from seating all of the way into the cylinder. This aggravated me but I figured I could fix it when I got home. So, I loaded the other 4 cylinders and proceeded to fire the gun. Accuracy was excellent and recoil was very manageable despite the light weight frame of the gun. Sadly, the first round out of each cylinder full caused the trigger to lock in the rear position. After I pulled the trigger it would lock in the rear position even if I released my finger from it. Now I was really getting frustrated. I can't count on it for personal defense with that kind of poor quality and performance. So I drove home wondering what to do. Do I take it back to the store and trade the problem away? That isn't fair to someone else. Do I contact Charter? Do I tie it to the bumper of the truck and drag it down the interstate on my way home? No, I called a cowboy gunsmith friend of mine who cut his teeth on PPC action jobs on double action revolvers in the 80s. He said I can fix it up for ya'. So away it went. When I got it back it was much smoother than before and I could load five for five. Also the trigger locking back only happened once and then stopped doing it. I believe it is now a keeper and more testing is forthcoming. I subsequently fell in love with the round and picked up a S&W Thunder Ranch Special in .44.
Merry Christmas to all and to all a good night!
Wheelgun
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If the gun is new, I'd send it back to them. I've heard they are easy to deal with, but it may have to be sent through your dealer.
I bought an Undercover a few months back. Everything is great so far. The first cylinder full was difficult to eject the empty cartridges from, but has been like butter ever since. My only complaint is that the front site is almost completely obstructed from view by the hammer when firing in double action. I know that isn't really a problem with the Bulldog or their 6-shooter .38. I love mine and the price was right. I may get a .44 later. I have too many other guns that I'm interested in and since we only have 1 more year to buy new semi-auto handguns in California, I'm concentrating on those.
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Dunn-
I dont know if you have heard about this yet or not, but there is a new shooting range in Greenville
http://www.allenarms.net/
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If it's new, send it back to Charter, and say in your message that you talked to me and I said SEND IT BACK!
They'll stand by their gun...if there's any problem, have them ask Charles Brown, the president of the company, to contact me!
Michael B
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Thanks Michael! I appreciate your help. I think my gunsmith fixed the problem and I am not sure if CA would take it back after a smith worked on it anyway. But if it doesn't prove reliable on the next trip to the range I will take you up on your offer. Thanks again, nice to have support from you, Majordomo!
Ericire12, thanks for the link, I have been there and it is a really nice range with good folks. Thanks again!
Wheelgun
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Charter's new revolver for rimless cartridges is pretty interesting.
http://www.gunpundit.com/1487.php
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Charter's new revolver for rimless cartridges is pretty interesting.
http://www.gunpundit.com/1487.php
Brilliantly simple and simply brilliant!
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Charter's new revolver for rimless cartridges is pretty interesting.
http://www.gunpundit.com/1487.php
The 9mm model will chamber .380 also. 8)
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Wheelgun, I am not picking on you but I see this a lot and it is kind of a pet peeve of mine, but all revolvers have only ONE cylinder. The five holes you load the rounds in are chambers not cylinders. One cylinder housing 5 chambers.
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Wheelgun, I am not picking on you but I see this a lot and it is kind of a pet peeve of mine, but all revolvers have only ONE cylinder. The five holes you load the rounds in are chambers not cylinders. One cylinder housing 5 chambers.
Hell of a first post there, lonedog ::)
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CLIP!
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Wheelgun, I am not picking on you but I see this a lot and it is kind of a pet peeve of mine, but all revolvers have only ONE cylinder. The five holes you load the rounds in are chambers not cylinders. One cylinder housing 5 chambers.
Not all revolvers have only one clyinder. I have a revolver with 2 cylinders in 2 different calibers. I know of a few other revolvers that have 2 or more cylinders too.
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The 9mm model will chamber .380 also. 8)
I wonder if their frames are too small for a 10mm that also shoots .40. I have an Undercover, and it's pretty small and light, but I know that the do a 6-shot as well, and a .357 magnum. I'd be interested.
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Fuzdaddy, be careful what you wish for, the 10mm is too high pressure for the little guy, but if they did make it, it would be the baddest barking spider you ever held ;) but I am now looking at charter even more, the .45acp bulldog will be a beast, probably need one. I have a 3" S&W 625 and its all stainless steel, and its a little beastie, better now with rubber grips.
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Anyone know how .45 ACP compares to .44 Special in a snubbie? I think .45 +P would be pretty good.
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Fuzdaddy, be careful what you wish for, the 10mm is too high pressure for the little guy, but if they did make it, it would be the baddest barking spider you ever held ;) but I am now looking at charter even more, the .45acp bulldog will be a beast, probably need one. I have a 3" S&W 625 and its all stainless steel, and its a little beastie, better now with rubber grips.
I figured that a Charter in 10mm would need a little more metal. I have a 3 inch ported 629. The Hogue grips on it are the type that don't cover the backstrap, and that is one punishing beast. It's been known to take a little skin.
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I've got to start a reference sheet ...
Clip = Haz
Cylinder = Lonedog
Woman Bashing = M'ette
Hitting on M'ette = Marshal
JumboFrank = Fear of showers (group in particular)
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I've got to start a reference sheet ...
Clip = Haz
Cylinder = Lonedog
Woman Bashing = M'ette
Hitting on M'ette = Marshal
JumboFrank = Fear of showers (group in particular)
LOL. That's a good one. I haven't showered since last year. When there are 6 showers and 12 guys you would think everyone would just take turns. But when the guards turn the water off after 5 minutes it's different. At least in the cellblock we didn't have to yell down the hallway for a guard to flush the toilet by remote control like in the individual cells. I don't ever plan on going to prison again. I wasn't actually planning on it that time either. Sometimes unexpected things happen when I drink.
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Charter's new revolver for rimless cartridges is pretty interesting.
http://www.gunpundit.com/1487.php
Let's just see if it works. Charter and I go way back and I've never been satisfied with any of their products. If they truly can get a 100% reliable and decently accurate 12 oz. 9mm, I'll buy one for certain. That would make for a great left pocket piece.
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Wheelgun, I am not picking on you but I see this a lot and it is kind of a pet peeve of mine, but all revolvers have only ONE cylinder. The five holes you load the rounds in are chambers not cylinders. One cylinder housing 5 chambers.
Well, technically, based on the definition of a cylinder, the chambers are cylinders too. Just like the cylinders in an engine block.
n.
1. Mathematics.
1. The surface generated by a straight line intersecting and moving along a closed plane curve, the directrix, while remaining parallel to a fixed straight line that is not on or parallel to the plane of the directrix.
2. The portion of such a surface bounded by two parallel planes and the regions of the planes bounded by the surface.
3. A solid bounded by two parallel planes and such a surface, especially such a surface having a circle as its directrix.
2. A cylindrical container or object.
3. Engineering.
1. The chamber in which a piston of a reciprocating engine moves.
2. The chamber of a pump from which fluid is expelled by a piston.
4. The rotating chamber of a revolver that holds the cartridges.
5. Any of several rotating parts in a printing press, especially one that carries the paper.
6. Archaeology. A cylindrical stone or clay object with an engraved design or inscription.
A cylinder is one of the most basic curvilinear geometric shapes: the surface formed by the points at a fixed distance from a given straight line, the axis of the cylinder. The solid enclosed by this surface and by two planes perpendicular to the axis is also called a cylinder. The surface area and the volume of a cylinder have been known since deep antiquity.
In firearms terminology, the Cylinder refers to the cylindrical, rotating part of a revolver containing multiple cartridge chambers. The cylinder revolves around a central axis in the revolver to bring each individual chamber into alignment with the barrel for firing. Each time the gun is cocked, the cylinder indexes by one chamber (in six-shooters, 60°).
So, in essence, relating to revolvers, the chambers are cylinders within a cylinder. ;)
All in good fun.
Welcome aboard.
;D
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I like charter arms had a bulldog pug in .44 spl very nice, sorry I sold it.
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I like charter arms had a bulldog pug in .44 spl very nice, sorry I sold it.
I'm looking at a used one tomorrow. My b-i-l's neighbor has one he wants to sell.
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My neighbor has a Bulldog and loves it. His only complaint is he can't shoot his for prolonged periods because it freezes up. You wheel gunners know if this is not unusual?
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PegLeg, a revolver chamber isn't truly cylindrical unless it's bored straight through. I think M1917 revolvers were because it was easy to make them quickly that way. But most revolver chambers have chamber mouths that taper down so it's only a cylinder shape up to there. That part of it's a truncated cone.
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Last weekend took my newly gunsmithed Charter back out to the range for testing. I am happy to report all went well. The chambers (thanks for the correction) in the cylinder all were loadable, no seizing of the trigger in the rear position and a smooth clean action all the way. I was very pleased. I did have two FTF but that could easily have been the ammo and not the gun. I ignored the first one but opened the cylinder after the second one and inspected it and it was a light strike. It went back around and detonated the second time. Don't think it was the gun as they were early on in the session and did not occur again. Needless to say I am now satisfied. After the original purchase price and then the gunsmithing I still come in under th price of a Smith and the Charter is extremely light in comparison to my SP101. Thanks for all the feedback, especially you Majordomo! ;)
Wheelgun
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PegLeg, a revolver chamber isn't truly cylindrical unless it's bored straight through. I think M1917 revolvers were because it was easy to make them quickly that way. But most revolver chambers have chamber mouths that taper down so it's only a cylinder shape up to there. That part of it's a truncated cone.
I based it partially on this, but what the hell: ;D
Other types of cylinders
An elliptic cylinder
An elliptic cylinder is a quadric surface, with the following equation in Cartesian coordinates:
(x/a)squared + (y/b)squared = -1.
This equation is for an elliptic cylinder, a generalization of the ordinary, circular cylinder (a = b). Even more general is the generalized cylinder: the cross-section can be any curve.
The cylinder is a degenerate quadric because at least one of the coordinates (in this case z) does not appear in the equation.
An oblique cylinder has the top and bottom surfaces displaced from one another.
There are other more unusual types of cylinders.
These are the imaginary elliptic cylinders:
\left(\frac{x}{a}\right)^2 + \left(\frac{y}{b}\right)^2 = -1
the hyperbolic cylinder:
\left(\frac{x}{a}\right)^2 - \left(\frac{y}{b}\right)^2 = 1
and the parabolic cylinder:
x^2 + 2ay = 0. \,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cylinder_(geometry)
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The holes are circular, not elliptical. That's strike 2. ;)
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My neighbor has a Bulldog and loves it. His only complaint is he can't shoot his for prolonged periods because it freezes up. You wheel gunners know if this is not unusual?
In my experience, not for Charters.
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The holes are circular, not elliptical. That's strike 2. ;)
Actually, strike 3..... ;)
I was thinking of an Oblique Cylinder, but that don't work either because the openings are offset.
I stand corrected, sir.
;)
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My neighbor has a Bulldog and loves it. His only complaint is he can't shoot his for prolonged periods because it freezes up. You wheel gunners know if this is not unusual?
My Undercover doesn't freeze up and I wouldn't hesitate to add that freezing up is completely unacceptable for any gun that you need to trust when the SHTF. When my Ruger SP101 was new, it'd lock up occasionally, right out of the box. I sent it in to Ruger and they polished it up a bit and de-burred the trigger mechanism. It has been a trooper ever since. If your buddy's Charter is fairly new, I'd tell him to contact them and they'll get it working right.
As these new Charter rimless guns go, I'm leaning toward either 9 or 40, but I sort of wish they'd decided to go with moon clips just for the sake of quick reloads. I'm still interested anyway. I mean, does anyone else make a .40 snubby? Great BUG for someone who already carries a .40.
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Actually, strike 3..... ;)
I was thinking of an Oblique Cylinder, but that don't work either because the openings are offset.
I stand corrected, sir.
;)
There's no one named sir here. I remember some of my 10th grade geometry. Enough to know what a cylinder is. A regular cylinder that is. I never heard of an oblique one before but it sounds like it goes off on an angle.
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There's no one named sir here. I remember some of my 10th grade geometry. Enough to know what a cylinder is. A regular cylinder that is. I never heard of an oblique one before but it sounds like it goes off on an angle.
I was also thinking of a tapered cylinder (funnel shaped).
They didn't teach hyperbolic and parabolic cylinders when I took geometry.
http://www.mathwords.com/o/oblique_cylinder.htm
My neighbor has a Bulldog and loves it. His only complaint is he can't shoot his for prolonged periods because it freezes up. You wheel gunners know if this is not unusual?
Had a Taurus model 85 'freeze up' once. Turned out to be a primer that 'backed out' of a homegrown +P load.
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That oblique cylinder looks like what I pictured in my mind. I'm going to look at some of the other pics in case we get quized on this stuff later. ;)
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That oblique cylinder looks like what I pictured in my mind. I'm going to look at some of the other pics in case we get quized on this stuff later. ;)
Geometry was not my cup....calculus was OK though.
I've been out of high school over 22 years.................my head hurts.
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I never had calculus but I had lots of algebra and other crap. Geometry was easier for me because I could actually see the objects in the real world. Algebra never made any sense because I couldn't see any of the equations in the real world. They were just numbers and letters instead of real things and after a few years it got boring. That finally changed when I tutored my wife in college algebra. She had a book that showed drawings of some of the equations as real objects. I finally know 20 years too late why (a+b)2 = a2 + b2 + 2ab. I found a picture online that shows it too. The 4 pieces add up make the whole square. Too bad they didn't show us in school that all the numbers and letters actually did mean something.
Wow. We got a little off topic here, huh?
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My Undercover doesn't freeze up and I wouldn't hesitate to add that freezing up is completely unacceptable for any gun that you need to trust when the SHTF. When my Ruger SP101 was new, it'd lock up occasionally, right out of the box. I sent it in to Ruger and they polished it up a bit and de-burred the trigger mechanism. It has been a trooper ever since. If your buddy's Charter is fairly new, I'd tell him to contact them and they'll get it working right.
As these new Charter rimless guns go, I'm leaning toward either 9 or 40, but I sort of wish they'd decided to go with moon clips just for the sake of quick reloads. I'm still interested anyway. I mean, does anyone else make a .40 snubby? Great BUG for someone who already carries a .40.
I just talked to him about the new charters and he brought the locking issue up again. He thinks the expansion from the heat during long sessions makes the cylinder and barrel gap 'go away'. By long, he means about at the 60 round mark. Needs to leave it for 5 or 10 minutes before he can spin the cylinder again.
And I agree these guns seem be a nice BUG choice. Wonder if the .45 would shoot GAP like the 9 would shoot .380? Wonder if they are designing a speed loader for it?
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The head of .45 GAP brass is thicker but that's on the inside of the case. Externally they're the same diameter as far I know. It should be a perfect fit.
If it takes 10-12 cylinders full of ammo to overheat and bind a BUG or any carry gun that shouldn't really be a problem. No one would carry that many reloads.
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Tell you what...I'd get real ambitious next week and shoot some video of my MagnaPort Charter...it is a sweet little gun! And BTW, Marshal and I will meet with Charter at SHOT and line up some cool giveaways for DRTV! I'll also ask MagnaPort if they'll do a custom Charter for us to give away as well...
mb
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You are "Da MAN"
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Does lightning strike twice in the same place?
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Does lightning strike twice in the same place?
The saying is that it does not but unless the first strike eliminates the original attraction there is no reason why not.
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Does lightning strike twice in the same place?
Same question here.
(I'm not greedy, you understand, but I always have room in the safe for another one.) ::)
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Same question here.
(I'm not greedy, you understand, but I always have room in the safe for another one.) ::)
you can NEVER have to many GUNS ;D
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Tell you what...I'd get real ambitious next week and shoot some video of my MagnaPort Charter...it is a sweet little gun! And BTW, Marshal and I will meet with Charter at SHOT and line up some cool giveaways for DRTV! I'll also ask MagnaPort if they'll do a custom Charter for us to give away as well...
mb
Oooh… a Magna-ported, stainless .44 special would be pretty high on my list and not to mention Charter's don't have the suspicious internal locking mechanism.
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you can NEVER have to many GUNS ;D
"Hi, I am Fatman and I have a gun problem."
Chorus from fellow gun owners: " Welcome, Fatman. What is your problem?"
"I have 7 guns but only two hands."
Maybe another soon. The Judge is calling...
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"Hi, I am Fatman and I have a gun problem."
Chorus from fellow gun owners: " Welcome, Fatman. What is your problem?"
"I have 7 guns but only two hands."
Maybe another soon. The Judge is calling...
You certainly do have a problem! Only 7 guns?!
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Only 7 guns? :-[ I thought I had a problem because I only had 7 handguns.
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Fuzdaddy, be careful what you wish for, the 10mm is too high pressure for the little guy, but if they did make it, it would be the baddest barking spider you ever held ;) but I am now looking at charter even more, the .45acp bulldog will be a beast, probably need one. I have a 3" S&W 625 and its all stainless steel, and its a little beastie, better now with rubber grips.
S&W did it. The gun is a little larger than the little Charters. Better for home than the pocket.
http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=86953&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y
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That's be a handful!
mb
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That price is why I own a Python.
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That price is why I own a Python Glock.
There. Fixed it for ya! ;)
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There. Fixed it for ya! ;)
When did Glock start making real (wheel) guns?
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An alloy framed 10mm snub's bark must be worse than... I don't know, but it's got to be worse than something. ;D
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When did Glock start making real (wheel) guns?
You need to pay attention to the news, er mews, Haz.
(http://glockmeister.com/images/grevl.jpg)
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You need to pay attention to the news, er mews, Haz.
(http://glockmeister.com/images/grevl.jpg)
That belongs in the photo shop thread. Hide it quick before Gaston ( or Hawkfish ) has a stroke ;D
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Thats great! :)