The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: patrick_ford on December 20, 2008, 08:42:26 PM
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In my research so far, I've noticed that there is pretty much no consensus on which magazines are the best, better, worst for any given 1911. The only standard response I have seen is that 7 round magazines tend to have fewer problems than their 8 round counterparts. Given that I am about to jump in to the 1911 experience, I was wondering if I could get everyone's opinion here. I've ended up picking a Kimber TLE II. It comes with one 7 round Kimber magazine. I want mine to be flush fitting and I would like to have at least 5 total.
What do you guys recommend?
GO!
Thanks in advance,
Patrick
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Wilson Elite Tactical Magazine (ETM)......8 rounds and absolutely 100% reliable. Designed from the ground up to be a true 8 round magazine. I carry these exclusively in my 5" Nighthawk Custom. 8+1 with a spare Wilson ETM in my pocket giving me another 8 as a backup. Seventeen rounds of CorBon 230 gr 45 ACP+P is very reassuring.
I wouldn't consider another magazine these days now that Wilson has introduced the ETM. Never a single FTF or FTE in nearly a year's use at the range. The best $34.95 you will ever spend, and guaranteed for life. I've been rotating 4 of them.....they're superb.
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Novak 8 rounders or Chip McCormick Shooting Star 8 rounders used both with my RIA no problems in 1500 rounds. The Novak came with it, the Chip McCormick's were $15 each
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If God wanted 8 rounds in a 1911 he would have had the prophet John Moses Browning (all praises be unto him) make it that way!
I used the McCormick 7 rounders myself, you should get a break when you by 30 at a pop (got mine for $12).
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I've never had a colt mag go bad that was not directly related to me abusing it. ( droping it, steping on it... etc etc)
7, 8, and my DE 9. Every other brand of mag I have had probs with.
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Wilson or CMC +1
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P.S. 1911's shall NOT have removable floorplates!
I ripped this off from somewhere;
1. In the beginning was the 1911, and the 1911 was the pistol, and it was good. And behold the Lord said, "Thou shalt not muck about with my disciple John's design, for it is good and it worketh. For John made the 1911, and lo all of his weapons, from the designs which I, the Lord, gave him upon the mountain.
2. "And wouldst thou muck about with it and hang all manner of foul implements upon it, and profane its internal parts, thou shalt surely have malfunctions, and in the midst of battle thou shalt surely come to harm."
3. And as the ages passed men in their ignorance and arrogance didst forget the word of the Lord and began to profane the 1911. The tribe of the gamesmen did place recoil spring guides and extended slide releases upon the 1911 and their metalsmiths didst tighten the tolerances and alter parts to their liking, their clearness of mind being clouded by lust.
4. Their artisans did hang all manner of foul implements upon the 1911 and did so alter it that it became impractical to purchase. For lo, the artisans didst charge a great tax upon the purchasers of the 1911 so that the lowly field-worker could not afford one. And the profaning of the internal parts didst render it unworkable when the dust of the land fell upon it.
5. And lo, they didst install adjustable sights, which are an abomination unto the Lord. For they doth break and loose their zero when thou dost need true aim. And those who have done so will be slain in great numbers by their enemies in the great battle.
6. And it came to pass that the Lord didst see the abomination wrought by man and didst cause, as he had warned, fearful malfunction to come upon the abominations and upon the artisans who thought they could do no wrong.
7. Seeing the malfunctions and the confusion of men the lord of the underworld did see an opportunity to further ensnare man and didst bring forth pistols made of plastic, whose form was such that they looked and felt like a brick, yet the eyes of man being clouded, they were consumed by the plastic pistol and did buy vast quantities of them.
8. And being a deceitful spirit the lord of the underworld did make these plastic pistols unnameable to the artisans of earth and they were unable to muck much with the design, and lo these pistols did function.
9. And the evil one also brought forth pistols in which the trigger didst both cock and fire them and which require a "dingus" to make them appear safe.
10. But man, being stupid, did not understand these new pistols and did proceed to shoot them-selves with the plastic pistol, and with the trigger cocking pistols for lo their manual of arms required great intelligence which man had long since forsaken. Yet man continue to gloat over these new pistols blaming evil forces for the negligent discharges which they themselves had committed.
11. And when man had been totally ensnared with plastic pistol, the lord of the underworld didst cause a plague of the terrible Ka-BOOM to descend upon man and the plastic pistols delivered their retribution upon men. And there was a great wailing and gnashing of teeth in the land.
12. Then seeing that the eyes of man were slowly being opened and that man was truly sorrowful for his sinful misdeeds, the Lord did send his messengers in the form of artisans who did hear and obey the teachings of the prophet and who didst restore the profaned 1911s to their proper configuration, and lo, to the amazement of men they didst begin to work as the Prophet had intended.
13. And the men of the land didst drive out the charlatans and profaners from the land, and there was joy and peace in the land, except for the evil spirits which tried occasionally to prey on the men and women of the land, and who were sent to the place of eternal damnation by the followers of John.
Amen
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I'd listen to TAB. I mean, he must know his stuff on this subject - his current avatar is obviously successful at stuffing extra ammo in a standard container.
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you do know JMB had this pistol designed, tested and ready for production, but the then the army came by and wanted changes. Which he did. Things like grip safety and the 45 were not JMBs idea, they were that of the armys.
Just goes to show you that every once in awhile, the armed forces makes a good choice.
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I'd listen to TAB. I mean, he must know his stuff on this subject - his current avatar is obviously successful at stuffing extra ammo in a standard container.
sigged...
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I only used Colt 7-round mags for my Series 80 and had no problems. I sold it to a friend and he bought an aftermarket POS 15-rounder for it that jammed all the time. I think 10 rounds is as high as you should go on extended mags.
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What do you guys recommend?
GO!
Thanks in advance,
Patrick
I am starting to build a 1911 from scratch next month so I have put a bit of research in mags and grips. I have found a mag that I feel is the best for my needs from Tripp Research (formerly of STI). This guy has put a lot of effort into making the ultra reliable 1911 mag. Here's the web site.
http://www.trippresearch.com/
Hope it helps!
Scott
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I have had Wilson mags since they first came out as 7 rounders over 20+ years ago. When the conversion units came out I changed all of them to 8 rounders. Also have a couple Shooting Star (McCormick) 8 rounders. I used them in practice during good weather and matches whenever. They are like the Energizer Bunny with good ammo (sometimes my reloads are not so good!). I also have a Wilson and McCormick for my carry gun (a lightly modified Colt Officers ACP). They are 7 rounders instead of 6 like factory mags. I have and will continue to stake my life and the lives of others on them. I cannot speak for the Novak or Tripp.
Richard
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Seems that you have enough opinions but I'll add my 2 cents.
I have a Para and the two 8 round mags that came with it work like butter. I've a couple thousand rounds through these mags and no problems at all. My daughters man-meat had a S&W with stock Wilson mags and bought two more of the ETM mags and two McCormick mags and has had nothing but problems with the gun. Sent it to S&W, they determined that their gun was not the problem and did nothing...sent it back with two more Wilson mags and the problems persisted. Since he no longer trusted that gun, he got rid of it because Smith didn't want to fix whatever was wrong with the mags or the clunker of a gun he had....
All of the Wilson mags he bought work fine in my Para so for the time being, I have access to several new Wilson mags (great mags) as well as my stock Para mags. I don't know what to make of the these problems and I don't know if Para makes their own mags. It's obvious that S&W does not.
Best bet, try what ever comes with the particular gun you buy and if they work, don't try and fix what ain't broke.....Don't fall into what I call the "fishing lure" syndrome where most fishing lures sold are meant to catch the fisherman and not the fish!
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The Glock 21 holds 13 rds of .45 ACP ;)
Oh, and then there is also this:
(http://www.lonewolfdist.com/images/products/SCH-2545.jpg)
25 rounds!
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Pretty much all been said already, but here's my two pennies:
Been using the standard Wilson 8 rounders for 15+ years. No problems.
Bought a couple of Shooting Star 10's and they will not function at full capacity. They work fine with 8 or less in them.
The two 8 rounders that came with my Springfield have so far been reliable.
Factory Colt 7 rounders have always worked fine.
I will stick with the Wilson's for self protection.
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The Glock 21 holds 13 rds of .45 ACP ;)
Oh, and then there is also this:
(http://www.lonewolfdist.com/images/products/SCH-2545.jpg)
25 rounds!
you can get 50 round 1911 mags.... :P
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Now I feel under-gunned with only 15 and 20 round mags for my Paras. ;) The 15s only extend a fraction of an inch below the frame like most single-stack 8-round mags, so I have 7 extra rounds in the same size package. The 20's are competition legal 170 mm (6.7"). When I wanted more than 7 rounds in the mag I got a Para and sold the Colt.
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a 8 round mag should not extend past the butt on a full size frame ( gov/ commander)
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a 8 round mag should not extend past the butt on a full size frame ( gov/ commander)
Maybe they shouldn't but a lot of them either have rubber bumpers or plastic base plates that do extend, like these.
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a 8 round mag should not extend past the butt on a full size frame ( gov/ commander)
Because of the extra round and the additional spring material, they have to extend a little bit and all that I've seen or used have been about 1/4" longer. Some with the metal followers may be shorter but I find the metal followers a little sticky at times.
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My S&W 1911 came with two Wilson Combat eight rounders with plastic bases. If they had a flat floor plate they would be flush with the grip, but with the magwell the plastic base is recessed a little. I have bought six more Wilson Combat eight rounders and have never had a single magazine feed problem.
I can't begin to imagine the number of rounds I have run through the gun, and I have never had an issue. Even with USPSA, and dropping the mags in the sand, gravel and mud, and kicking them all over the place they work flawlessly.
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My S&W 1911 came with two Wilson Combat eight rounders with plastic bases. If they had a flat floor plate they would be flush with the grip, but with the magwell the plastic base is recessed a little. I have bought six more Wilson Combat eight rounders and have never had a single magazine feed problem.
I can't begin to imagine the number of rounds I have run through the gun, and I have never had an issue. Even with USPSA, and dropping the mags in the sand, gravel and mud, and kicking them all over the place they work flawlessly.
M58...I wasn't bashing S&W or Wilson...they both manufacture GREAT products...I believe the S&W 1911 my kids friend had was a TURD and with any turd, you flush it before it gets too stinking up the place...another friend has the identical gun and he carries it every day! ;D
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M58...I wasn't bashing S&W or Wilson...they both manufacture GREAT products...I believe the S&W 1911 my kids friend had was a TURD and with any turd, you flush it before it gets too stinking up the place...another friend has the identical gun and he carries it every day! ;D
I wasn't responding to you Timothy. I was just adding my two cents to the conversation.
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I'm not going to give any advice on 7 or 8, being that all I shoot is Para 45 double stacks. But what I can say is I load 230 grain in those hi cap mags, and something I've found useful is to immediately replace the stock mag springs with Wolff springs. The extra strength they supplied eliminated any magazine problems with the last round or two causing an occasional issue. I'd think the Wolff springs would help the larger single stack mags feed more reliably too.
Wolff Para springs are +10% of the factory strength - I think most Wolff single stacks are +5%
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I replaced some of mine with Wolff 10% extra power springs too. Great springs and great people to deal with. The springs in my 20 year old Para were getting so weak I couldn't count on the slide locking back 100% of the time. And sometimes it would barely lift the last round up high enough and it was feeding on an angle. It would almost fail to feed. The new springs took care of that.
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I just bought several 8-rd. KimPro Tac-Mags (SS), from the Armory in VA Beach, VA. They are for Kimber 1911s, and mine is a CDP Pro, with standard grip and 4" barrel. Upon receipt, I loaded one with eight (8) rounds, and tried to install it in the magazine well. It would not fully insert, making some sort of contact just before latching.
I removed one (1) round and inserted it again with seven rounds...voila! It loaded without a problem. I studied that eighth round and tried to reinsert it several times, thinking maybe I hadn't seated it fully in the magazine. NOPE! It would NOT take eight rounds...no way, Jose!
SO...even though the magazine will hold a full eight rounds, it won't load in MY Kimber with that number. I've dropped my expectation and operation to seven rounds of .45 ACP, and am proceeding merrily on my way :) They are beautiful mags, and come with an assortment of bottom pads that you can install yourself. I highly recommend them to Kimber owners.
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By loading one round less you're decreasing the spring tension by about half. The mags can be kept loaded that way without damaging the springs. It may feed better too.
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I use the 1 I got with the RIA which I assume is a Ed Brown 7 rounder, a 10 rounder I bought at a gun shop, 2-7 round Mil spec from Sportsman's guide. I keep em all loaded and shoot all of them when I shoot. no problems so far. I don't believe springs loose their tension, that may be an old wives tale or from when the springs were poorly made. I have kept mags loaded for 20 years without a malfunction.
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I use the 1 I got with the RIA which I assume is a Ed Brown 7 rounder, a 10 rounder I bought at a gun shop, 2-7 round Mil spec from Sportsman's guide. I keep em all loaded and shoot all of them when I shoot. no problems so far. I don't believe springs loose their tension, that may be an old wives tale or from when the springs were poorly made. I have kept mags loaded for 20 years without a malfunction.
I got a Novak 8 round with mine, on the lower portion of the Mag, right side says .45ACP, left side has Novaks logo.
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When Walt Rauch came to visit me a couple of years back, he asked me for a 1911 and 7 round mags. I loaned him my Dick Heinie 1911 Springfield and 7-round Novak magazines. As much as I love Bill Wilson, serious magazines are only loaded to 7 rounds...
Michael B
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Having had feed problems with my 2 1911's I just gotta get into this fray.
First issue was with my Colt Officer's model. Puked it's guts on everything I tried. ALL problems disappeared via a polished ramp and 7 Colt mags modified with Shooting Star followers and Wolf springs. Also installed a full length guide rod and reverse retainer. It's now flawless over 2500 rounds w/ with everything I feed it and is my every day carry gun w/185 gr cast hollowpoints loaded 6+1.
Second issue was with my IPSC single stack gun, a Taurus PT1911 in stainless. Bought with W's $600 by the way. Got 4 additional mags from Taurus and went shooting. Wouldn't get thru ANY of the six mags without a jam of some variety but were mostly 3 point jams. In addition, 3 of the mags wouldn't drop free. I got 6 Wilson ETA's and still had the problem. A hotshot on the 1911 forum suggested a condition he called "riding the link". Essentially out of time. I returned the gun to Taurus with a description of the problem(s) and two rounds that had jammed so they could see the scuff marks along with the sticking mags. In spite of what we read of poor Taurus Customer Service I had the gun AND mags back in 3 weeks and it has yet to have a failure of ANY type. Eats everything I feed it including my reloads and all the mags drop clean.
In light of the above I'd have to vote for 1911 feed problems being a combination of things. Like Mr. Bane, I also vote for loading mags at 1 round less than max. If one more round makes a difference in whatever you're shooting, you need to get better at makeing the first one count.
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For the Hamas that like to shoot first then whine ......
Ineffective, unfocused violence and limp panicky half measures lead to more violence. However, complete, fully thought through,
professional, well executed violence never leads to more violence, because afterwards, all the other guys are dead.