The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Fatman on December 24, 2008, 07:29:56 PM
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Carry for security. Prefer it t be as close to 1911 design as possible. Vastly prefer .45, won't cry over .40 though. Hi-cap. All my pistols are Para .45 hi caps
Company requirements:
*must be DAO and have no decocking or external safety levers. (Some jamoke who probably never trained with his own weapon failed to disengage the thumb safety on his 1911 in a SHTF situation)
*Manufacturers specified overall length between 6" minimum and 8" maximum.
* Bore sizes authorized : .45 ACP, .45 GAP, .40 Cal (not 10mm), 9mm luger
Go at it fellas. I'm allowed two spare mags, no BUG.
Oh, and at least I'm allowed to write this one off! ;D
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I would look at the XD. I can transition incredibly easy from my 1911 to my XD's which I carry during the winter
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I'm gonna push for the Glock 21, accurate, dependable, go ahead and get the night sights, and you can shoot lead for practice, versus the other calibers. If you don't mind 10 round mags, then the GAP model 37, may fit you better, and once again, no problem with lead bullets for practice. I wish I could shoot an XD, I like many of the features, but have no experience with them, it too could be a good choice.
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A DAO and no safety is about as opposite to the 1911 as you can get.
So I'd either look at an XD or a Walther P99QA. Neither have a safety or decocker.
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Yeah, I kinda thought an XD right off the bat, and yup, no safety and DOA is pretty far from a 1911. Just boggles my mind that 20+ years of shooting only 1911s isn't good enough for the corporate security manager or some fancy pants lawyer who thinks familiarity breeds incompetence. Or somefink like that. >:(
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DAO and no safety, but 1911 ish...
Does para make a safetyless LDA?
Thats about the only thing I can think of.
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DAO and no safety, but 1911 ish...
Does para make a safetyless LDA?
Thats about the only thing I can think of.
Regrettably, the answer seem to be 'no' from every place I've looked. That would certainly be my preference. I've dry fired an LDA in my local gun shop (asked for permission and a snap cap first) and was a 'hey, this is pretty sweet' moment.
I'll ask Para or email George (if he's still in QA there) if they have a model for just such a request or if one is in the works.
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A DAO and no safety is about as opposite to the 1911 as you can get.
So I'd either look at an XD or a Walther P99QA. Neither have a safety or decocker.
Think the Walther has a decocker. Think most every DAO semi has a decocker. Think most women from Ecuador have one too, based on the incidents I've read... ;D
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Why do you not want a safety/decocker?
I personally would not buy a pistol that did not have a good safety.
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Why do you not want a safety/decocker?
I personally would not buy a pistol that did not have a good safety.
He said it was company requirements.
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You can get a Glock 45 with a Frame Modification (a la Robar) that will help it feel Para-1911-ish in your hands.
-RJP
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Glock (hate 'em myself, but it's usable)
XD (not a big fan here either)
Sig P-229 SAS w/ DAK trigger (no decocker on this version)
Sig P250
Beretta Centurion DAO (they don't list these anymore)
H&K P30
Steyr M9-A1 or M40-A1
S&W Sigma (wouldn't own one myself, but that's just personal)
S&W M&P (can be had w/o safety)
Khar (.40 or .45, not enough beans in the 9mm)
CZ also made the CZ 75DAO w/ no decocker (not listed anymore)
I would go for the Sig's or the Steyr myself.
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Does the grip safety on the XD disqualify it or does it say safety lever?
Richard
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Yeah, they mean anything you have to even remotely think about, so safety lever. I'll fix the OP.
Edit: ellis, lol it already says 'safety lever'.
Not nice to play with my bean like that after getting to bed two hours before I got up for the elves today. ;D
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You can get a Glock 45 with a Frame Modification (a la Robar) that will help it feel Para-1911-ish in your hands.
-RJP
Cool, puts Glock back in the running. After all these years of 1911 muscle memory, Glocks get instinctively pointed high.
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Cool, puts Glock back in the running. After all these years of 1911 muscle memory, Glocks get instinctively pointed high.
Check again on this. Last time I checked the CCF Race Frames which I think Robar uses are not made in full size .45.
I wrote to them a year ago and they said they had no plans to certify one.
I chose the Glock 21SF and it fits my smaller hands well.
I am a Glock bigot, but if I were switch, the XD and SIG 250 would be on my list for Fanboyship.
Take care.
P.S. Just checked and only the Glock 37 45. GAP is the only .45 frame offered by CCF.
They do offer the Glock 22 full size .40 SW
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Check again on this. Last time I checked the CCF Race Frames which I think Robar uses are not made in full size .45.
I wrote to them a year ago and they said they had no plans to certify one.
I chose the Glock 21SF and it fits my smaller hands well.
I am a Glock bigot, but if I were switch, the XD and SIG 250 would be on my list for Fanboyship.
Take care.
P.S. Just checked and only the Glock 37 45. GAP is the only .45 frame offered by CCF.
They do offer the Glock 22 full size .40 SW
Yeah, .45 GAP
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Two things make me like the Sig, if for no other reason. From the site:
CA Compliant No
MA Compliant No
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I wasn't even thinking of the new frames... simply getting the existing grip area worked to have flat back.... they (and others) have been doing that for years to all Glocks.
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Two things make me like the Sig, if for no other reason. From the site:
Don't mean to burst your feel good Fatman but I just checked the MA approved list and the P229 DAK, P226 DAK and the P239 DAK are all OK in MA in .40 S&W! The SAS version of the P229 is not, that's the dehorned, walnut grip version.
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Don't mean to burst your feel good Fatman but I just checked the MA approved list and the P229 DAK, P226 DAK and the P239 DAK are all OK in MA in .40 S&W! The SAS version of the P229 is not, that's the dehorned, walnut grip version.
lol, only looked at the 250, Tim. Digging at the politicians in those states that we all know and love, not you guys. Can't wait to see which progressive state starts in with the child-proof guns. Yeah, right. Kids can open child-proof medicine caps better than most adults.
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lol, only looked at the 250, Tim. Digging at the politicians in those states that we all know and love, not you guys. Can't wait to see which progressive state starts in with the child-proof guns. Yeah, right. Kids can open child-proof medicine caps better than most adults.
+1
It's amazing my two brothers, two sisters and I grew up in the sixties. We had at least 15 long guns and a few revolvers just resting in their wall mounted racks with the ammo and such readily at hand with an old Japanese bayonet my dad managed to bring back from the Pacific. To no ones suprise we never shot anyone, stabbed anyone or did anything stupid with any of those firearms. The wrath of the "Old Man" (who never laid a hand on us!) was enough to discourage such shinanigans!
We don't need to child proof anything, we just need to get back to the basics of raising children.....and a couple of years in the military wouldn't hurt either.....
Hooahh...
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times have changed. When I was in school, if the teacher called home, you had an ass whopping waiting for you. Now days they are lucky if they even get the message.
its funny, when I was coaching a jr wreslting team, if some one goofed off, every one was doing push ups... Never had a kid talk back to me. yet they would do it to thier parents. funny how that works.
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Thanks everyone for the great input. I've got some good leads, now time to do the homework. :)
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you realy should look at fhn usa FNP-40, DAO, Matte Black Stainless http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF019&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0060
never used one but hurd good thing
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I'm a little late getting on the post. But, I would recommend a Glock 23 (.40) or a Glock 21SF(.45). The G21SF is a newer version of the G21 ..which would be okay too. But, I love the G23 and that would be my top recommendation for you. You still get 13rds in a magazine..just like the G21.. but the G23 is tried and true and was one of the first Glocks out. I love mine.. so much.. if I had to choose and grab one handgun at a moments notice..it would be the G23. Accuracy is good.. not as good as some other Glocks..but darn close ..and still much better than most other gunmakers. I am biased for Glock ..yes. But, there is a reason for this biasedness. I havd owned and shot Sprinfield XD's and Smith & Wesson M&P's and while they are good..they at least at this time are not better than Glock. That is my opinion. But, I've had lots of shooting at the range and with other gun-buffs.. that have influenced me to go with Glock. Anyway, that's my recomendation.. if you do get a "non-1911..type gun..a polymer..etc".. make sure to keep the barrel clean and put at least about 500rds. through it before you consider it broke in.. good luck with you decision. :)
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Thanks Hawk, et al. I've purchased and taken to the range an XD 45 duty length. My range goes to 50', so they have scaled targets to compensate.
No surprise here - my natural motion brings the front sight high after over 20 yrs of 1911 only. That's the bad news. The good news is it wasn't a terrible adjustment to get on target. Even better, brand new the pistol seems to be a shooter out of the box, groups in the red at 50' with the scaled target.
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Sweet.
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OK, update on the 'shtf' scenario that got my beloved 1911s eliminated from duty. "No comment" on any real world details, but the company banned any lever safeties, decockers, single action revolvers ( SA revolvers for duty carry? Who did they think they were? Bat Masterson??) after training new hires in 2000 and auditing the results. Bear in mind we supply personal sidearms.
Seems I was spot on with 'they didn't train with the weapon'. The instructors had multiple cases of trainees not swiping the safety off during drills - one young trainee actually stood there for fifteen seconds trying to mash the locked out trigger on a three foot drill before complaining his pistol had broken.
So once again, the powers that be cater to the lowest common denominator. We can only use sidearms that 'require no thinking' in order to bring them into action.
Sorry, I don't consider it 'thinking' to release my safety. After so much familiarity, I consider it 'natural' and actually need to make sure I have the holster off my belt and in my weak hand before removing the pistol. Else I flip the safety off without 'thinking'... every time.
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Hi guys I just joined and say this seamed like a good one to start with. Doesnt this company know that all semi autos have some kind of safety or decocker today, they might want a no external leaver gun but I wouldnt want to shoot it unless it was a DAO. I thought that Ruger makes one but that it is only in 380. I looked at the replys and I think the guns that are recomended are great but I will put in my $20.00 worth too.{inflation} I would really look into the XD-M that is what I am giving my daughter.
that interchangeable everything makes it the most adjustable pistol I have ever seen for various sized hands and grips. It also can be changed to diferent frame sizes to match carry conditions. Since my son-in-law just went to bootcamp and she wanted protection that is what she got, and at a reasonable price too. Thanks for letting me join you. Geoff. :D :P :P