The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: 1776 Rebel on January 04, 2009, 05:05:58 AM
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England will start to track the elderly. I think Soylent Green is next...
Electronic monitoring has been used to track wildlife, stolen cars and criminals confined to their homes and jobs, but in what may be a sign of things to come, politicians in one British community propose to fasten monitoring devices to some of the local senior citizens to monitor their movements, cut costs and -- presumably -- keep the old-timers out of trouble.
http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-Liberties-Examiner%7Ey2009m1d3-Elderly-to-be-tracked-with-electronic-monitoring-like-criminals-in-UK
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From time to time, a local news story will have an APB on a senior citizen who "wandered" away from somewhere. Often they are found confused but OK, other times they freeze to death or disappear and die of dehydration, etc,...
Circumstances will dictate the measure. Are they in a home not monitored well? Is there a definite medical aspect demensia, Alzheimers?
My 84 year old father in law is sharp and would literally shoot anyone who tried to tag him. But some of his former Westinghouse co workers you have to watch constantly and I could see a wristwatch GPS locator being justified.
Family resources and circumstances should make the decision.
Me. I'm making a break for it, you'll never catch me copper""" 8)
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Why not, were implanting our kids along with fingerprinting and dental impressions while they go see santa. ???
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I don't see what the big fuss is. Every married man has a tracking device installed on them. It's called a wedding ring. ;D
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I have no problem with at risk people being bracletted or ankletted, but I believe it is wrong for anyone in any situation (including criminals) to be implanted.
I also do not like the idea that if I ever own a car with On Star or similar device that I can be tracked. I am also one that turns their cellphone off a lot, and I am also of the generation that viewed telephones as optional so have no problem leaving my cellphone behind altogether.
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There must be a lot of social worker graduates that need a job over there.
Yeah, I think cell phones are optional...the Dingleberry Blackberry I have work has a built in GPS. Works fine so long as the battery is in.
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I have no problem with at risk people being bracletted or ankletted, but I believe it is wrong for anyone in any situation (including criminals) to be implanted.
Can you help me understand why you are againist an RF chip implant?
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Having family memebers that have lost thier mind and seeing many of my friends I grew up with in the same boat with thier grand parents. under the right conditions I can see this being very useful. Hell Friday I spoke with a freind of mine( more like my sister) whos Grandfather had a massive stroke and is now mentaly a 4 year old. Something like this might be very usful for them if he becomes a wonderer.
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Having family memebers that have lost thier mind and seeing many of my friends I grew up with in the same boat with thier grand parents. under the right conditions I can see this being very useful. Hell Friday I spoke with a freind of mine( more like my sister) whos Grandfather had a massive stroke and is now mentaly a 4 year old. Something like this might be very usful for them if he becomes a wonderer.
Having seen Alzheimer's in the family and among neighbors, especially when they sun-down, it would be good to implant them so if they get out of the locked unit, they can be tracked and recovered safely. They can be devious and very crafty in this state, as well as extremely violent.
There is a huge difference that no one seems to want to discuss, however, between the family agreeing to this in the best interests of the person - on the one hand.
On the other hand, I would absolutely insist that NO government be allowed to force an implant on anyone under any circumstances ever. Especially as described in the article, seemingly for the convenience of the government.
Clear enough?
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Can you help me understand why you are againist an RF chip implant?
I believe that by going down this road you are opening Pandora's Box when it comes to issues of personal privacy and governmental intrusion.
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M58 tks...I also agree that gov't should have absolutely NO ability to do anything like electronic monitoring of any type. Family decisions should be left to family, period.
I have less fears about RF tags. Totally passive and most scenarios (like the pet tags) only carry an id character string. So a-no active monitoring and b-you have to have access to the database of id's which are linked to further info. A freaking ankle monitor pinging away 24x7 is more scary to me. But a family might decide that is ok. Never the gov't.
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Can you help me understand why you are againist an RF chip implant?
Because where I go is no ones business but my own. I do agree that the families of "impaired" seniors may want to consider something of this sort.
Making it mandatory would, in my opinion, be one of those "line in the sand" type acts by a govt.
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Agreed, Tom. I will make the decision / choice but I will not be dictated to.
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Rebel,
Remember that the rf chips that are talked about for children and adults would not be the low power ones like animal identification. The proposed chips, and they are available and in people on a test basis today, work with GPS and track you. A central station is able to follow your every move.
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Rebel,
Remember that the rf chips that are talked about for children and adults would not be the low power ones like animal identification. The proposed chips, and they are available and in people on a test basis today, work with GPS and track you. A central station is able to follow your every move.
they already can do that with cell phones.
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they already can do that with cell phones.
Just one of a few good reasons not to get one.
If everyone get's tagged they can quit asking where's Waldo. ::)
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they already can do that with cell phones.
Even if they are turned off, unless the battery is out.
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which is a very good thing if you have a teen ager.... not so much for every one else.
One of the best things I ever did was getting rid of my cell. I still have one in the truck( no service), but thats only so I can dail 911 if needed.
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RF chips...hey what's the problem? Not only the elderly, but people with six toes should be tracked. Everyone knows people with six toes are dangerous. Like those dang gun owners...we need to include an RF tag in every firearm...the government isn't going to take them from law abiding gun owners. It would only be used to help eliminate crime..so it's good, right? Don't you get that? Why would you not be for something that's good and eliminates crime....you aren't anti-American are you?
No, don't worry, as long as you don't do anything bad it won't matter. Oh, and it's impossible to link all of those RF receivers at the doors of Wal Mart, Dillards, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. to track your movements....we won't put them on gasoline pumps and in restaurants. Don't worry...trust us. We won't misuse them. We will only put them on bad people. There are no plans to put receivers on subways, stadiums or city streets at this time. Yes, there was some consideration to make RF tags mandatory on people who have written letters to their senators and congressman, but that was shelved....we're only going to make people who have written angry letters to the White House get them...not normal people like you and me...only the ones that wrote inflammatory letters that threaten what our government needs to do.
You do support your government, don't you? ???
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You do support your government, don't you? ???
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RF chips...hey what's the problem? Not only the elderly, but people with six toes should be tracked. Everyone knows people with six toes are dangerous. Like those dang gun owners...we need to include an RF tag in every firearm...the government isn't going to take them from law abiding gun owners. It would only be used to help eliminate crime..so it's good, right? Don't you get that? Why would you not be for something that's good and eliminates crime....you aren't anti-American are you?
No, don't worry, as long as you don't do anything bad it won't matter. Oh, and it's impossible to link all of those RF receivers at the doors of Wal Mart, Dillards, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. to track your movements....we won't put them on gasoline pumps and in restaurants. Don't worry...trust us. We won't misuse them. We will only put them on bad people. There are no plans to put receivers on subways, stadiums or city streets at this time. Yes, there was some consideration to make RF tags mandatory on people who have written letters to their senators and congressman, but that was shelved....we're only going to make people who have written angry letters to the White House get them...not normal people like you and me...only the ones that wrote inflammatory letters that threaten what our government needs to do.
You do support your government, don't you? ???
Exactly how it will be proposed. Good job, Rastus.
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RF chips...hey what's the problem? Not only the elderly, but people with six toes should be tracked. Everyone knows people with six toes are dangerous. Like those dang gun owners...we need to include an RF tag in every firearm...the government isn't going to take them from law abiding gun owners. It would only be used to help eliminate crime..so it's good, right? Don't you get that? Why would you not be for something that's good and eliminates crime....you aren't anti-American are you?
No, don't worry, as long as you don't do anything bad it won't matter. Oh, and it's impossible to link all of those RF receivers at the doors of Wal Mart, Dillards, Best Buy, Circuit City, etc. to track your movements....we won't put them on gasoline pumps and in restaurants. Don't worry...trust us. We won't misuse them. We will only put them on bad people. There are no plans to put receivers on subways, stadiums or city streets at this time. Yes, there was some consideration to make RF tags mandatory on people who have written letters to their senators and congressman, but that was shelved....we're only going to make people who have written angry letters to the White House get them...not normal people like you and me...only the ones that wrote inflammatory letters that threaten what our government needs to do.
You do support your government, don't you? ???
+1
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they already can do that with cell phones.
Exactly! However, a cellphone is an optional device, and you can do like I do - leave it lay on the office desk whenever possible. If you have Dish or Direct TV they can track what you watch as well. Whenever you plug in the telephone line they can down load what your watching habits are.
The "green movement" is in on this however. They promote implants as a way of going to a paperless society by using the implant for all financial transactions and identification. Do away with all licenses, id cards, passports, social security cards, credit cards, cash, and checks. It will also be able to carry your medical history and speak for you when you can't, don't want to, or they don't care what you have to say >:(
Time to read "1984" again. Haven't read it since high school.
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I should get out my 1984 edition of it too. I haven't read it since then.
Rastus can clearly see the problem even if a few others don't.
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Read it last summer when obummer got on a roll.
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Big Brother is watching you.
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"More than 3 million surveillance cameras are estimated to be in use across the United States, which prompted shoe purveyor Kenneth Cole to advertise: "You are on a video camera an average of 10 times a day. Are you dressed for it?""
"Even in Russia, where the St. Petersburg police have been lobbying for $250 million to install 50,000 security cameras around the city, critics are warning of the potential for abuse. Already bootleggers are selling police databases at flea markets."
Hundreds of thousands of surveillance cameras across America track our behavior every day.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/10/17/ING3Q98R2A1.DTL
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"Britain has 4.2 million surveillance cameras — 20% of the world's closed circuit cameras, according to the nation's independent Information Commissioners Office. There is a camera for every 14 people. An average Londoner is captured on camera 300 times a day, the office reported."
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/surveillance/2008-07-06-cameras_N.htm
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It's so bad that vigilantes are going around burning up and destroying cameras. If people are already doing that because of cameras in public areas, how do you think they would react to locator chips being implanted in their bodies?
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Exactly! However, a cellphone is an optional device, and you can do like I do - leave it lay on the office desk whenever possible. If you have Dish or Direct TV they can track what you watch as well. Whenever you plug in the telephone line they can down load what your watching habits are.
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One other thing, missed by 99.995% of the people are loudspeakers. Loudspeakers are like a microphone in reverse, properly oriented they move with sounds...that movement of the speaker surface generates an electrical current with the coil. Just like a microphone though not designed for such. It is possible to listen in on conversations over loudspeakers...turn them on and it negates that.