The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: alfsauve on January 07, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
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[Initially I erroneously labeled this thread ALL GUN SALES TO BE TRACKED. In reality it is any "transfer", not just "sales". Don't be suckered in by the spin.]
If you haven't read it, the Brady Bunch has submitted their agenda to the BHO transition team.
http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/politics/obama-transition-memo.pdf (http://www.bradycampaign.org/xshare/pdf/politics/obama-transition-memo.pdf)
For this thread let's just focus on the "Gun Show Loop Hole". This is their way of forcing every gun transfer to go through NICS and be recorded. While they focus on Gun Shows, and erroneously imply that's where many criminals get their guns, this change would require EVERY gun transfer to go through NICS.
* Trade a gun with your buddy ---- NICS
* Give a gun to your son or daughter ---- NICS
* Give a gun to your wife ---- NICS
* Pass away and will your weapons to your family ---- NICS
Your family could unwittingly become FEDERAL FELONS, if they failed to have each and every gun transferred after your death. Many questions arise in this example. How long does the estate have to execute the transfer? If there's no provision for such, then technically the surviving family members (spouse) are felons the moment you die? Who "holds" the weapons in the mean time. What if they forget about one or discover it later? And if the heir doesn't pass NICS will the "trustee" be allowed to sell the firearms at market value on behalf of the estate? Or will it become property of the state? TOO BAD YOU LOOSE.
Other sticky areas include provisions for incapacitation. Who "owns" the guns when you are in a comma? Or just having an operation? Can there be joint ownership? What if your wife uses your gun to defend herself? Did she just perform a transfer without NICS?
NOW, and it gets worse, combine that with the repeal of the ban on record keeping, AND what you have is registration of ALL guns after 50-60 years. People (your children) found with a weapon not entered in NICS become felons. And don't think that Brady, et-al will be satisfied to wait 50-60 years. After their current proposals pass they will add complete registration to their list. I wouldn't be surprised if they're hoping for a 10 year time frame, if not less. Get these provisions passed and effective by say 3/1, then wait for some tragedy to come along then push for complete registration. Could be pushing for it by 1/1/2010.
Write your congress critter. Write your newspaper. Spread the word. Educate those shooters who think Brady is only after those ugly black rifles and won't affect them.
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Unfortunately my congressman (Wexler (Demo-brat)- FL) has an "F" from the NRA. He is for "reasonable" gun laws too plus so he's so entrenched down here, especially since has a "residence" in Florida now, its hard for anyone to challenge him. I will keep tryin'!
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Unfortunately my congressman (Wexler (Demo-brat)- FL) has an "F" from the NRA. He is for "reasonable" gun laws too plus so he's so entrenched down here, especially since has a "residence" in Florida now, its hard for anyone to challenge him. I will keep tryin'!
Write him letters anyway. Regardless of the person's position we need to address them in a civil, educating, and requesting way. We need to becareful to not help them slam the door on us by coming across as ranting idiots. But, we do need to contact them respectfully on a regular basis with our concerns and requests.
If your Congressman received an "F" rating from the NRA it might be a good thing to not mention the NRA in your communications. I personally tend to leave membership information out of most communications unless it is an important factor in the issue or it ties into the conversation.
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That already happends for 10s millions in the US...
what cracked me up was stoping terrorists and suspected terrorists from getting guns.( thats a new one)
What ever happend to insent until proven guilty.
Granted if there is a warrent out for you, thats a diffrent story.
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That already happends for 10s millions in the US...
what cracked me up was stoping terrorists and suspected terrorists from getting guns.( thats a new one)
What ever happend to insent until proven guilty.
Granted if there is a warrent out for you, thats a diffrent story.
Actually a warrant is NOT a different story. An arrest warrant or an arrest itself is not proof of guilt. So if we're going to be concerned with the "innocent until proven guilty" thing, then a warrant really isn't a different story.
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well I hate to break it too you... if you have a warrent out for you, the current check will kick you.
There are all kinds of warrents. Things like contemp of court/ failure to appear.
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well I hate to break it too you... if you have a warrent out for you, the current check will kick you.
There are all kinds of warrents. Things like contemp of court/ failure to appear.
I understand what you are saying, I was simply responding to your question about whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty.
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See when you have a warrent you are not guilty, you are a fugative from justice.
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As a former LEO I'm familiar with the concept of warrants, thank you.
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Then you understand that there has been "due process". That is where the diffrence lies.
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I see what you are getting at, If there is a warrant because you are suspected of bank robbery then you are not guilty YET.
But if it's for Failure to appear you must be guilty or you would have said no don't issue that.
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Then you understand that there has been "due process". That is where the diffrence lies.
No, a warrant is merely an accusation of a crime. Due process requires a conviction.
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Disclaimer: while TAB has every right to use my quote as his signature, I should mention it only holds true for the thread in which it was posted. :)
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Disclaimer: while TAB has every right to use my quote as his signature, I should mention it only holds true for the thread in which it was posted. :)
We understand, it's just Tab . . . ::)
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This is a copy of the letter I just sent to my congresswoman (Shea Porter :( )
Support the Constitutionally guaranteed Civil rights of your constituents. Fight ALL anti gun rights legislation.
A bunch of people from states with more crime in a week than we have in a year, will be telling you a bunch of lies about,"It's for safety", and , "It's to cut crime". I would ask these people ,You have much stricter anti 2nd amendment laws in your state , why is your crime rate so much higher per capita ?
We teach Drivers Ed in schools to try to keep young drivers safe. We teach sex ed in our schools to try to limit teen pregnancy and STD exposure. If the issue were TRULY safety then the NRA or Boy Scouts would be teaching firearms safety in every school in America.
There is no such thing as "gun violence", there IS violent crime, sometimes it involves illegal use of a fire arm, but in more cases it involves use of clubs, knives, fists and feet. If "crime control" were truly the issue then why are these activists not going after violent offenders and the lenient judges who allow them back on the street to offend again ? Why, after a violent crime do these people wish to disarm all the law abiding gun owners who DIDN'T do it ?
Gun control is not about guns, it's about control, and governments usurpation of powers they were never intended to have.
I'm sending you a link that I hope you will read and learn from. The man who compiled this information INTENTIONALLY AVOIDED using information from the NRA because he wanted no accusations of bias. The anti gun rights people can not match this type of VERIFIABLE information.
WWW.gunfacts.info
Thank you for your time and efforts to stop the bailout madness.
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Disclaimer: while TAB has every right to use my quote as his signature, I should mention it only holds true for the thread in which it was posted. :)
I had wondered "What on earth was he thinking". ;D
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Back on topic a bit....gun transfers. I'm transfering all of mine into a trust. A trust is really easy to create...here in Oklahoma it's basically a form and a notary stamp. What firearms aren't listed in the trust are later transferred into it.
Unless something changes, there won't be a transfer of ownership for my weapons to my sons. They will be named on the trust as trustees, as can be their children. The trust never transfers ownership of the weapons...but the trustees are named in the trust as it's updated.
We've got to get smarter guys...and some of you may not want to use the same trust you may have used for your Class III items.
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Rastus,
I had forgotten about using a corporation (trust) to own firearms. Can you provide us with a link to a more detail discussion?
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Rastus,
I had forgotten about using a corporation (trust) to own firearms. Can you provide us with a link to a more detail discussion?
I looked before and couldn't find anything that was really instructive. Maybe someone else here has a good link or information to post.
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When using trusts or corporations to protect or pre-transfer assets of any kind make sure you are aware of your State's rules. In some cases a trust in itself can own personal property with no problem, but in some cases the individuals that own the trust (or named in the trust) are the owners. Bottom line is that if those named in the trust are the owners you could end up going through transfers every time the trustors or trustees change.
Also if the trust holds the firearms, what happens if one person in the trust loses their right to own or poses a firearm? I know that we don't think anyone in our families would become a mass murderer, but what about a DWI or other driving issue that results in a fatality; a hunting law infraction with a firearm involved; or a personal disagreement that results in a restraining order.
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UPDATE: H.R. 45
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=86039 (http://worldnetdaily.com/images/BobbyRush.jpg)
U.S. Rep. Bobby Rush, D-Ill., is hoping to pass a firearm-licensing bill that will significantly rewrite gun-ownership laws in America.
Among the more controversial provisions of the bill are requirements that all handgun owners submit to the federal government a photo, thumb print and mental heath records. Further, the bill would order the attorney general to establish a database of every handgun sale, transfer and owner's address in America.
The bill claims its purpose is "to protect the pubic against the unreasonable risk of injury and death associated with the unrecorded sale or transfer of firearms to criminals and youth."
If passed, the bill would make it illegal to own or possess a "qualifying firearm" – defined as any handgun or any semiautomatic firearm that takes an ammunition clip ;D – without a "Blair Holt" license.
To obtain a "Blair Holt" license, an application must be made that includes a photo, address, all previous aliases, thumb print, completion of a written firearm safety test, release of mental health records to the attorney general and a fee not to exceed $25.
Further, the bill makes it illegal to transfer ownership of a qualifying firearm to anyone who is not a licensed gun dealer or collector. Exceptions to this rule include transfer to family members by gift or bequest and loans, not to exceed 30 days, of a firearm for lawful purposes "between persons who are personally known to each other."
The bill also requires qualifying firearm owners to report all transfers to the attorney general's database. It would also be illegal for a licensed gun owner to fail to record a gun loss or theft within 72 hours or fail to report a change of address within 60 days.
And if a minor obtains a weapon and injures someone with it, the owner of the gun – if deemed to have failed to meet certain safety requirements – faces a multiple-year jail sentence.
H.R. 45 is a resurfacing of 2007's H.R. 2666, which contained much of the same language and was co-sponsored by 15 other representatives and Barack Obama's current chief of staff, Rahm Emmanuel. H.R. 2666 was assigned to the House Judiciary committee, where no action was taken.