The Down Range Forum
Flying Dragon Productions ( Michael Bane ) => The Best Defense on My Outdoor TV => Topic started by: Marshal Halloway on January 26, 2009, 02:47:21 PM
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EPISODE #5: Deescalation and Boundary Setting
As Michael Bane tells us in this episode, seems that most defense training deals with terms like “close quarter combat” or “defensive firearm use”. But our experts will tell you that the best defense is to always try and avoid any kind of violent confrontation. Mike Janich shows us how being aware and controlling our actions can be the safest way to avoid any possible conflicts that may otherwise turn violent.
And, if you are a concealed carry permit holders, we will demonstrate the proper way to present your firearm from concealment. Rob Pincus shows us how to practice using a firearm from a concealed carry perspective, and the best drills you can use to practice on your own at the range.
Airtimes: Wednesday, January 28, 2008
4:00PM, 7:30PM and 11:00PM
Rerun: Wednesday, April 29, 2009
http://www.downrange.tv/bestdefense/episode5.htm
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Good show. Tough thing....walking away from someone who needs their behind kicked across the street.
The CCW training in Oklahoma really hammers home that CCW holders have an extra responsibility for avoidance. I suspect the other states are similar.
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Can anyone tell me where I can find the concealed weapon purse/handbag shown in this episode? It's the first one I've seen that I could see myself carrying.
Thanks.
treesy
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Texas CHL classes also emphasize avoidance. They also spend a lot of time hammering into you the potential consequences of your actions, both mental and legal, whether you were in the right or not.
Another great show guys!
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Treesy,
You can find a selection of purse holster options like the one in the episode from http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterP2.asp?CatalogID=149 (http://www.usgalco.com/HolsterP2.asp?CatalogID=149)
-RJP
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Texas CHL classes also emphasize avoidance. They also spend a lot of time hammering into you the potential consequences of your actions, both mental and legal, whether you were in the right or not.
As well they should. Too many people who I've met think that a gun makes them able to act tougher since they can now "back it up". I can only imagine the legal issues (how many years in jail) of picking a fight when you are carrying a gun....
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NH law stipulates that, to paraphrase, ;D If you were running your mouth and instigated a situation you have to take your a$$ whooping AND that applies IN YOUR OWN HOME". While NH law states you have no obligation to retreat in your home, it also states that use of deadly force in an argument/ altercation that YOU initiated you will be charged .
However, if you come across a Sexual assault in progress, you can legally go over and shoot the attacker in the back of the head and nothing will be said.
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As well they should. Too many people who I've met think that a gun makes them able to act tougher since they can now "back it up". I can only imagine the legal issues (how many years in jail) of picking a fight when you are carrying a gun....
I guess I wasn't clear that "hammering" home the consequesnces is a positive approach IMHO. Lots of really good examples and case studies. (I got interrupted by the wife. Imagine that!)
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As well they should. Too many people who I've met think that a gun makes them able to act tougher since they can now "back it up". <snip>..
I agree with this. Mostly some police officers, including some I've known since we were children together.
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I guess I wasn't clear that "hammering" home the consequesnces is a positive approach IMHO. Lots of really good examples and case studies. (I got interrupted by the wife. Imagine that!)
I think you got your point across. I was trying to agree with you :-)
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Most who have taken martial arts classes for any length of time have learned to walk away from fights, not from fear but from a true sense of humility. I've gotten to know at least one of the worlds great practitioners (a name some of you may know) and others, and the common trait is a real, deep-down humble spirit derived from years of training and practice.
Not so with a gun. Any yahoo with a few bucks can get a gun and go looking for a fight. In most states, all you need is a minimal class and money for the application and PRESTO you can carry concealed. It takes a great deal of courage and strength to walk away from a situation that could have gotten ugly fast, and ended badly for one or both parties. As much as knowing when to get involved and actually taking appropriate action.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating years of training to get a CHL, just encouraging new license holders to not be afraid to walk away from a situation. It may contrast with the 'macho' image you see in the movies, but it can be the true mark of strength in an individual.
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Mossad Ayoob has many excellent video's, books, and articles on this subject.
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To followup on Sparker56,
I've been taught that when armed you should get in less fights, to show more responsibility and better judgement.
This is my favorite episode so far. It hearkens back to an old Shooting Gallery(?) episode. I remember the scenario being that a guy is filling his car with gas when an aggressive man comes over and starts hassling him. Guy then needs to use distance and try to deescalate. Am I remembering correctly?
Overload in CO
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Best Defense is the best show going on TV today!! Bar none! I've seen lots of training styles, but this group puts out "real life" events that could be you. Thanks for putting it forth!!
Dave :D ;D
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There's an old martial arts story I read as a kid that applies.
A sword master wanted to see how his students were doing. He placed a pillow on top of a door slightly ajar and asked his three best students to see him. The pillow fell when the first student opened the door. Without thinking the student jumped back while drawing his sword in one smooth motion and cut the pillow in half. The master was not pleased. The second student sensed something was wrong as he approached the door. Looking carefully he noticed the pillow and declined to enter. Again the master was not pleased. When the third student arrived he too noticed the pillow. The student carefully worked his way through the partially open door without dislodging the pillow and approached his master asking why the master wanted to see him.
The first student had good sword skills but would go through life blundering into situations where he would need his skills to protect him. Eventually he would encounter a situation where his skills would not be enough. The second student knew when there was a potentially bad situation but lacked the skills to deal with the situation. The third student knew when there was a problem but had the skill to navigate past it without disturbing anything.
This goes to another thread Rob Pincus started regarding "should" versus "could". Self-defense means many things, but ultimately it means you go home to your family at the end of the day. De-escalation is one example of how to accomplish this with the smallest impact upon your life. Likewise Rob's position that just because you're legally justified to shoot doesn't mean you should is another example. My take is a little broader--de-escalate if you can, avoid shooting if you can't de-escalate, and if you can't avoid shooting make sure it's legally justified and you have the financial resources/insurance to cover criminal/civil trials. If you survive a self-defense situation but lose all your assets and future income to the criminal's family then you've still lost.
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Rob Pincus shows us how to practice using a firearm from a concealed carry perspective.
Rob, in this segment you drew from an IWB located at 5 o'clock on your body. Why? Everything I've seen leads me to believe that is too far back--there is a greater chance of sweeping yourself, farther distance means slower draw, and those that place their holster that far back tend to do so out of a misguided belief that since they can't see it, it prints less. (The ravenous bugblatter beast of traal defense.)
Obviously you have more training than the average joe. So why do you prefer wearing it that far back compared to the more usual 3 o'clock position?
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Robin,
As for CCW, I find that 3 o'clock is only "more common" on the training ranges and in competition.... out here in the real world, 5 o'clock carry IWB is much more common. If anything, I'd recommend training an appendix carry as a better option to the 5. This is the position that I generally carry my J-frame in, if it is not in a pocket holster.
The 5 is easier to conceal than the 3 and, while it does present a greater chance of self-coverage than the latter, that chance is easily mitigated by a proper draw-stroke.
-RJP
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I second Rob's comments on the 5 o'clock position and would like to add that the exact carry position is also a dynamic combination of body type, weapon type, and dress. Three o'clock has never been comfortable for me and it makes it harder to draw the knife on my strong side. It is also very uncomfortable for me when seated in a vehicle.
Five o'clock fits my body better. It also makes it easier to draw weak handed if necessary--a tactic that also involves many dynamic elements of body type, flexibility, etc.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Thanks for the great series guys. You have the best thing going on television and I want you to know that my son and I appreciate it a great deal. Keep up the great job!
Regards,
Jim
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Out here in the real world, 5 o'clock carry IWB is much more common.
Common doesn't necessarily mean correct. See definitions for both "peruse" and "scan"--words that are commonly used to mean the exact opposite of what they originally meant and therefore lost all semantic meaning. Regardless, thanks for your insights and reasoning. Yet another tool to add to the box.
The exact carry position is also a dynamic combination of body type, weapon type, and dress. Three o'clock has never been comfortable for me. It is also very uncomfortable for me when seated in a vehicle.
I hear you regarding "dynamic combination"--I'm the opposite and find 5 o'clock uncomfortable when driving. But then I have also given up hope of carrying IWB with a tucked in shirt because I think it bulges too far out for my frame.
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I hear you regarding "dynamic combination"--I'm the opposite and find 5 o'clock uncomfortable when driving. But then I have also given up hope of carrying IWB with a tucked in shirt because I think it bulges too far out for my frame.
The only way to find out what works for you is to experiment. Too many people want THE answer. While some things can come close to being definitive, most things don't. In MBC we have a saying, "You don't have to fight like me; you just have to fight well." The same goes for gun carry.
Keep up the great work.
Stay safe,
Mike
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Robin,
I use "assess" instead of "scan" because I like the implications of that word more than what I see many people doing when they only scan after a string of fire. I think we are speaking the same language here!
We also agree that just because something is "common" it doesn't make it "best". (Weaver stance, for example..... ;) ).
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In regard to the Seated issue with 5 O'clock carry: Blackhawk has recently announced their version of the quick disconnect holster mount. The way this works is that you can mount a hard point receptacle for your holster just about anywhere you want. On your belt, On your vest, under your desk OR on a hardpoint in your car. While the system is designed so that one holstered weapon can be moved from belt to chest to car to desk quickly, efficiently and safely without unholstering, there is no reason why the mounting point and holster cannot be attached somewhere for dedicated use. With this system, you can mount a holster inside your vehicle and when you enter it, transition from you 5 IWB holster to the permanent hardpoint holster in the car. This both eliminates the comfort issues AND facilitates a faster draw while seated and seatbelted in the car, if necessary!
-RJP
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On thing regarding 5 o'clock carry: you may experience lower back aches/pains using that carry if you're seated for long periods. What happens is your back doesn't lie flat against the seat and "torques" out of alignment a little. Granted an IWB isn't as bad as a duty belt but the same principle applies.