The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Thanos on January 28, 2009, 08:41:35 PM
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[quote author]
California Court Says Christian School Can Expel Lesbian Students
Wednesday, January 28, 2009
Calif. — A California appeals court has ruled that a private Christian high school has the right to expel students because of an alleged lesbian relationship.
The 4th District Court of Appeal in Riverside on Monday upheld California Lutheran High School's right as a private, religious organization to exclude students based on their sexual orientation.
Two teens filed a lawsuit claiming they were discriminated against after they were expelled from the Wildomar school in 2005 because of an alleged lesbian relationship.
A court in Riverside found that the school had the right to expel the girls because the school isn't bound by the same anti-discrimination laws as a business establishment.
John McKay, attorney for California Lutheran, says the school's goal is to educate children based on Christian principles.
The attorney for the girls could not be immediately reached Tuesday.
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What is this world comming too? California Courts doing something I agree with? (I don't hate anyone, but I don't think everyone needs to be force to accept others)
It is a crazy world.
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How is discrimination the right side of anything (whether you agree with their cause or not)?
If they discriminated against gun owners because our weapons go against their religion, you'd be picketing them and calling everyone you knew to complain about it.
What's that poem about "no one was there when they came for me"?
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How is discrimination the right side of anything (whether you agree with their cause or not)?
If they discriminated against gun owners because our weapons go against their religion, you'd be picketing them and calling everyone you knew to complain about it.
What's that poem about "no one was there when they came for me"?
What is it that defines this as discrimination?
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What is it that defines this as discrimination?
I always thought of "discrimination" as treating someone differently just because you didn't like something about them or that was different about them. There are more technical and legal definitions, but to me "discrimination" could be as much about race or sexual orientation as it could be country folk vs city folk or any other nebulous "us" vs "them" designation you'd care to make up (Star Wars vs Star Trek fans, maybe).
If you change the names a little, if an all Caucasian school kicks out two African American kids for being African American, there would be riots outside the school. Or, to use my original example, if the school kicked out two kids because they owned guns and belonged to the NRA (which go against their religion), we'd be saying every bad thing about the school we can think of.
Now personally, I can't imagine why a lesbian couple, who will be told by the school that they are going to hell for their ways, would want to go to that school. But that's not the point. Heck, I grew up in 12 years of Catholic education, and we were pretty much all convinced that we were all going to hell no matter what we did or didn't do. But that's STILL not the point. Fifty years ago, it was acceptable to intentionally break kids into separate schools because of their skin color. Today it's not. Any time you treat someone differently just for being different (not for violating some pre-set, defensible rule), I'd call that discrimination.
The court is now giving that school the ability to do anything it wants if someone doesn't comply with their "Christian principles". You'd better hope none of their parents get divorced or that none of the students miss church one week, or they could be the next ones to be expelled.
I get really touchy about groups being given special privileges to do whatever they want because "my religion says so." With so many religions out there, it's going to eventually let someone somewhere have an exception to do almost anything: kill, maim, rape... hey, why not? Because we didn't draw a line early on with discrimination.
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Being and having are two widely separate things. They were not expelled for BEING gay. They were expelled for an "Alleged lesbian relationship" that leads me to assume they had sex, this was a high school presumably the were underage, or really dumb. under age sex is a crime "Statutory Rape", so this is no more "discrimination" than if they were expelled for having pot.
So Poorsoul, after all that typing your rant is as ridiculous as one of TAB's. I'll give you a tip, don't drink the water in NJ, that's how Jay stays sane. ::)
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No rape envoled if they were they were under 18.
if they were cuagh having sex or making out on campus, they could expell them for that act. Infact that would be easy and I doubt it would even make it to trial.
There has to be more to this story.
If the shcool has good reason to beleave they are lesbos, ( pics, messages, cuaght in the act... etc) then I have np with them expelling them. If its just a rummer then I have a do have a prob with them being expelled.
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2 things TAB,
1) use spellcheck
2) what about that Black kid in Ga. who went to jail for getting a blowjob from a 15 year old girl when he was 17 ?
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2 things TAB,
1) use spellcheck
2) what about that Black kid in Ga. who went to jail for getting a blowjob from a 15 year old girl when he was 17 ?
Thats GA, not CA. I beleave in GA the age of consent is 16. in CA its 18, minors ingauging in sex is a infraction ( ticket)
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How is discrimination the right side of anything (whether you agree with their cause or not)?
How about the definition of discrimination.
: the quality or power of finely distinguishing
I discriminate against murders, rapist, and sodomites, it's a no brainer.
This Christian school has it's own standards and rules, that is their rightful choice. If these two miscreants don't like the rules they should leave and go to a school that suits them, instead of suing. After all going to a private school is voluntary, and it is a privilege, not a right.
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This was not discrimination. To force them to keep the lesbians in the school would have been, but against the school. The school is private and is part of a religious organization. They have rules against homosexuality and even post these beliefs in their "statement of faith." This isn't about civil rights, it's about others trying to show christianity in a bad light, just as when we had to fight to get Proposition 8 passed in CA. Nobody is saying that it would be OK for public schools to boot someone for their sexual orientation, but no one should be able to tell others how their church is run.
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Thats GA, not CA. I beleave in GA the age of consent is 16. in CA its 18, minors ingauging in sex is a infraction ( ticket)
You've got to question any state that feels that the age of consent should be 16! I heard that NV is that way too. I imagine some freaky 50 year old dude thought it would be great to bang a 16 year old child. Isn't that why we have guns?
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How is discrimination the right side of anything (whether you agree with their cause or not)?
If they discriminated against gun owners because our weapons go against their religion, you'd be picketing them and calling everyone you knew to complain about it.
What's that poem about "no one was there when they came for me"?
Well, first of all, You can be discriminated against. By ANYONE except the government as long as it does not infringe on areas that the government has mandated as theirs to control (Heart of Atlanta Motel v. United States, note the reasoning on how they ruled)
Why as a business owner should you not be allowed to give services to those who you do not wish to? This is exactly the point that you made in your comment, what if someone (the government) came in and told the owner of a business (a church that owns a school) that they have to capitulate and go against their religious beliefs and allow people (person's that offend the very basis of their moral values) to stay and be served by the business owner? That would be a Constitutional violation. There is nothing in the Constitution that says that you must provide something for anyone, as a matter of fact there IS something in the Constitution about not having to work for someone when you don't want too. (Hint: we fought a war over it)
I am discriminated against all the time by companies that don't like my gun. Ever go to a mall? it is probably owned by Simon, and if I recall, they have a NO gun policy in their malls. (Not like it stops gangbangers) But everytime you go to a mall they have the right to ask you to not be armed or not come onto their property. It is also a property rights issue. And remarkably, no one seems to be bothered by it enough to picket.
I defend everyone's right to be what ever they choose, (within the confines of the law) but no one person's percived right should trump another's to be free from another. (there is a SCOTUS case that something like that was said concerning privacy)
This is also a private school, ie private business. Public schools cannot do this and nor do I think they should be allowed. Or if they accept federal money. But in my opinion an Aryan Nations school should be allowed (If not tax dollars go for the funding) to prevent anyone they want or don't to attend their school.
Aryans (as dumb as I think they are) have the same Constitutional rights that I do. If I don't protect theirs to be free from interference, I can expect the government to interfere in my private life too.
(Disclaimer: I am not advocating bigotry in any way shape or form. I am advocating a private business being able to not serve those they don't want to.)
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2 things TAB,
1) use spellcheck
2) what about that Black kid in Ga. who went to jail for getting a blowjob from a 15 year old girl when he was 17 ?
I think that kid got a pardon. It was a debacle what happened with him and the legal age thing was what got him. But I am pretty sure he got out a couple years ago.
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All private schools in CA recieve public funds as well... Yeah its one of the many things in ed system in CA that needs to be fixed...
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All private schools in CA recieve public funds as well... Yeah its one of the many things in ed system in CA that needs to be fixed...
Just because some of our tax dollars go to a private school doesn't mean that the school doesn't have the right to have their own rules or observe their religious beliefs. The state shoots down the idea of a voucher program every time it comes up. If I want to send my kids to a private school, I should be able to reserve my education money for how I want to spend it. However, the state takes it, so that they can fund public schools, which are not making par. It's only right that some of our money goes to the private schools too, until they approve a voucher program. Maybe we should have tacked that on to prop 8.
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All private schools in CA recieve public funds as well... Yeah its one of the many things in ed system in CA that needs to be fixed...
Of course, I think the governemnt does a horrible job at education and it should be left to the free market.
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Just because some of our tax dollars go to a private school doesn't mean that the school doesn't have the right to have their own rules or observe their religious beliefs. The state shoots down the idea of a voucher program every time it comes up. If I want to send my kids to a private school, I should be able to reserve my education money for how I want to spend it. However, the state takes it, so that they can fund public schools, which are not making par. It's only right that some of our money goes to the private schools too, until they approve a voucher program. Maybe we should have tacked that on to prop 8.
The way I see it, if you take money from the goverment the goverment has some oversite into what you do with that money. If you don't like that, don't take the money. I don't see that as being too much to ask.
Not all public schools are bad, just like not all private schools are good.
having a client that is the current head of education in CA( arnie appointed her last year), the storys she has told me were down right shocking about what goes on in education.
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The way I see it, if you take money from the goverment the goverment has some oversite into what you do with that money. If you don't like that, don't take the money. I don't see that as being too much to ask.
Not all public schools are bad, just like not all private schools are good.
having a client that is the current head of education in CA( arnie appointed her last year), the storys she has told me were down right shocking about what goes on in education.
It should be the other way around. If the government takes money from us, we should have some say. If the government didn't take the money in the first place, the people could decide where they wanted to spend their education dollars and maybe private schools wouldn't need to get it from the government. All public schools aren't all that bad, just most of them and the way the districts spend the money is bad across the board. Most people aren't that impressed with Arnie either.
Who are you talking about? Jack O'Connell is the Superintendent of Education and Glen Thomas is the Secretary of Education as of Jan. 23rd.
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you do have a choice on how your tax money is spent... its called elcetions.
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you do have a choice on how your tax money is spent... its called elcetions.
Believe me, I'm voting, but it's a tough road in CA for those of of us on the right or in the right. It doesn't change the fact that government's purpose was never supposed to be to take all of the money and make every decision for us.
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CA is not even in the top 10 of per capita tax revenue...
that honor falls to Alaska. fallowed by vermont, hiwaii, wyoming and connecticut.
CA is ranked number 11... I know its very hard to beleave...
By % of income once again number 1 is Alaska fallowed by vermont, west virgina, and arkansa
we are ranked 14th in that respect.
Yes things are bad here, but they are worse other places.
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Per Capita, as you presented, is probably all taxes spread among the number of people. Alaska get's huge per capita tax revenue from oil and gas production. They were, recently, giving residents money and they had negative state taxes.
Vermont is really bad, I don't know a about WV...but Arkansas. I have land and some family in Arkansas. They pay less tax then I did when I lived in Louisiana or now in Oklahoma. One of my best friends, born and raised in California came and worked a very high paying job in Louisiana. When he moved back, he took a huge hit. Two of my great aunts lived in California until their death, hated the taxes as they escalated to satiate the socialist lurch in politics.
All I'm saying is, some portion of the data we as citizens are presented is sometimes twisted to give the impression of something it is not. I worked for Chevron, knew a lot of people who did time in California....were most happy to move into Texas, Louisiana or other enviorns to escape the California tax burden.
Tab, there's got to be more to it than what you picked up...one of the guys I work with now moved down from the Alaska North Slope a couple of years ago...had no problem with their taxes. Maybe you read the special rates for the people who have most of the money...lawyers, politicians, actors, etc. in California. ;)
And, to get back towards topic, why is it we cannot hold ourselves apart from deviant behaviour to maintain a moral standard we believe in that has been the standard since the birth of this nation?
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CA is not even in the top 10 of per capita tax revenue...
that honor falls to Alaska. fallowed by vermont, hiwaii, wyoming and connecticut.
CA is ranked number 11... I know its very hard to beleave...
By % of income once again number 1 is Alaska fallowed by vermont, west virgina, and arkansa
we are ranked 14th in that respect.
Yes things are bad here, but they are worse other places.
None of the states you mentioned has a $42 BILLION DEFICIT!!!! - CA does. Percentages don't matter in this case.
Hey folks, eye-opener here, it is part of the human condition to discriminate. When you're walking down a darkened street and 2 BG types are leaning against a car up ahead, our hand snakes to the CCW in our pocket, or we stop, go back or cross the street. We discriminate when some people are our friends and other we just cannot get along with.
This issue was settled for the Boy Scouts in the 90's with a SCOTUS ruling that as a private organization, they are allowed to forbid homosexuals from being members, let alone leaders.
PoorSoul, if you disagree, fine. Ask yourself these questions
1. Can you ever be elected president of the National Organization of Women (assuming you are not a woman)?
2. Can you ever be elected president of the NAACP (assuming you are not black)?
3. Can you ever be elected president of your local Jewish synagogue (assuming you are not Jewish)?
You are being discriminated against in every case
As for the gummint disctating what you can do in return for "their" money, can the gummint tell you specifically how to spend the next "stimulus" check or your tax refund?
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I know CA gets ~ 75% of its taxs from corperations. ( currently having 2 I can tell you, they are high compared to other states) Why CAs income taxs are on the high sides, many of our other taxs like property is very low compared to other places. Example my property taxs in OR is almost 10x what it would be in CA, but that has to do with how they are calculated. Its not fixed its based off the % value of your district. It can work for you and against you. Example if you have a modest house in a city that is full of huge house it will help. If your like me and have a improved property in an area that is almost entirely recreational property, you get skrewed.
As to why CA is in debt... atleast half of that is cuased by us having to pay for illegal aliens, the other half is over paid state workers...~ 50% of the state employees are paid by the goverment one way or another.
I'm fine with them giving the boot to a pair of girls that they have proof they are lesbos, its if they don't have proof then it really ticks me off.
I remodeled a locker room for a local all girls catholic HS this year... you want to talk about hard to keep your thoughts pure. ;D
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I think that kid got a pardon. It was a debacle what happened with him and the legal age thing was what got him. But I am pretty sure he got out a couple years ago.
Yes He did get out of it. But he was originally sentenced to something like 15 years.
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you do have a choice on how your tax money is spent... its called elcetions.
Spell check!
*Firefox has one built in. ;D
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Spell check!
*Firefox has one built in. ;D
Fire fox does not work well for sacs building departments web site.
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Try "ie spell check", I'll have to get back to you with the link.
Fire fox does not work well for sacs building departments web site.
Something I noticed when I lived there in 2000, the first State to go on line , by then had abunch of antiquated crap for "systems", must be even worse now.
I can't find it now, I deleted it when I switched to Firefox