The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Tactical Rifle & Carbine => Topic started by: 2HOW on January 31, 2009, 03:34:45 PM
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Letter Re: Advice on AR-10 Rifles (Updated)
Mr. Rawles:
I'm thinking about buying a Bushmaster AR-10 type rifle that comes with with one clip. What features should I look for, especially these days? Are the magazines an issue? Thanks, - C. in Oregon
JWR Replies: Let me start with a pet peeve. The terms clip and magazine are not synonymous. A clip holds cartridges only at one end, whereas a magazine complete surrounds a cartridge. In the context of modern detachable magazine battle rifles, a clip is what is used to fill a magazine. Please do not call a magazine a clip, especially around children. They are impressionable, and I 'd hate to see another generation growing up to use faulty nomenclature.
In today's frantic market the over-riding concern for AR-10 buyers is interchangeability of magazines. Some brands of AR-10s will accept inexpensive metric FN-FAL magazines, while others will accept only purpose-built AR-10 magazines. Let me explain:
Only a few brands of AR-10s take the plentiful FN-FAL magazines. The brands that can accept FAL magazines are American Spirit, Bushmaster, and Rock River Arms (RRA) . (BTW the new RRA LAR-8 will take metric FAL mags and "inch pattern" L1A1 magazines, with the large forward locking lug.) FAL magazines are still fairly inexpensive--as little as $14 each. I recommend that you buy 25+ of them. Someday, you'll be glad that you did.
The Armalite, Knight Armament (KAC), and DPMS brand AR-10s take only purpose-made AR-10 magazines. As reader "Mr. Smith" pointed out, the KAC and DPMS can use magazines interchangeably but the Armalite lower uses a magazine that is not compatible with the other two. M14 magazines can be converted, but only to fit the Armalite AR-10.
Mr. Smith also mentioned that CMMG is about to produce AR-10 lowers that will take very inexpensive German Army surplus G3 magazines! These are compatible with DPMS upper receivers. For anyone that plans to build a new AR-10, this is the lower to use! It is noteworthy that CMMG also makes a lower that is compatible with DPMS-type AR-10 magazines.
MagPul Industries announced 7.62x51 polymer magazines for the KAC and DPMS AR-10s at the 2009 SHOT Show. Based on the track record of their polymer 5.56 magazines, these should be great. They key question is: Will they make it into production before a new Federal; ban is enacted?
The going rate for 20 round Armalite, KAC, and DPMS steel AR-10 magazines is $65 to $75 each, and climbing. That means buying 20 spare magazines will nearly double the acquisition cost of a rifle. Yikes! If you know anyone that owns those brands of AR-10, tell them to buy plenty of spare mags, soon. After the upcoming ban, they will be $200+ each. I'm not kidding.
The bottom line: In today's market, unless you are absurdly wealthy, you should buy only AR-10s that can accept standard metric FN-FAL magazines, or HK G3 magazines!
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JWR Replies: Let me start with a pet peeve. The terms clip and magazine are not synonymous. A clip holds cartridges only at one end, whereas a magazine complete surrounds a cartridge. In the context of modern detachable magazine battle rifles, a clip is what is used to fill a magazine. Please do not call a magazine a clip, especially around children. They are impressionable, and I 'd hate to see another generation growing up to use faulty nomenclature.
Haz is not alone,........ ;D
The going rate for 20 round Armalite, KAC, and DPMS steel AR-10 magazines is $65 to $75 each, and climbing. That means buying 20 spare magazines will nearly double the acquisition cost of a rifle. Yikes! If you know anyone that owns those brands of AR-10, tell them to buy plenty of spare mags, soon. After the upcoming ban, they will be $200+ each. I'm not kidding.
That is NOT encouraging... :'(
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The going rate for 20 round Armalite, KAC, and DPMS steel AR-10 magazines is $65 to $75 each, and climbing. That means buying 20 spare magazines will nearly double the acquisition cost of a rifle. Yikes! If you know anyone that owns those brands of AR-10, tell them to buy plenty of spare mags, soon. After the upcoming ban, they will be $200+ each. I'm not kidding.
That is NOT encouraging... :'(
You can get the DPMS mags for $45. Still not cheap, but better than his quoted figures.
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IT's sad that the AR10 was not adopted by the Military as the AR15 series was. Every AR 15 clone and many other 5.56 rifles use the standard mags.
Manufacturers should set a standard for the AR10 and stick to it, using FAL mags would be a great idea as they are common and cheep. The AR10 is an excellent platform and would be far superior to the FAL had it been adopted. Better triggers and sights and the modularity that makes the AR15 platform so great.
And get rid of the McNamara button (Forward assist) which is basically useless anyway.
Comon industry, get off yer butts and standardize.
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You can get the DPMS mags for $45. Still not cheap, but better than his quoted figures.
Please tell me where to find some!!!!! (at whatever price) Any links would be appreciated.
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Please tell me where to find some!!!!! (at whatever price) Any links would be appreciated.
Brownells had them last night. I punched in 10 to see if they were available and the order accepted it ... I canceled it, because I don't have the pennies right now. I may be sorry in a couple weeks.
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Like anything else magazine fed.. good luck. The Bushmaster has been out of production for a while, and the RRA LAR-8 is the Bushmaster reworked (they bought it). The DPMS/KAC use the SR-25 magazine, while the AR-10 uses the mentioned M14 magazine style. Yes, you can convert the M14 magazine, but there are reliability issues with doing that. Armalite came out with a Gen-2 magazine that is fantastic, currently very hard to find.
-Bidah
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I've got a bunch of FAL mags...all I need is an FAL, or a RRA!
mb
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Good mags are probably better than gold as an investment. They may even be the new currency.
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Please tell me where to find some!!!!! (at whatever price) Any links would be appreciated.
Midway had them two weeks ago..I found some for a friend that way.
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Midway had them two weeks ago..I found some for a friend that way.
Not anymore :'(
C Products five and ten rounds are listed as "coming soon," but everything else is listed as "out of stock - no backorder." :'(
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Got an "in stock" email from BravoComanyUSA.com and by the time I got to the website, minutes later the DPMS mags were gone.
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Been pinching pennies for a AR-10. One of these days and every time I see a 3 gun comp makes me want to sell everything I own (With exception of my weapons) on Ebay to scrape up the dough.
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Not anymore :'(
C Products five and ten rounds are listed as "coming soon," but everything else is listed as "out of stock - no backorder." :'(
I was just looking for stuff on Midway, and damn near everything is backordered. Not just ammo or reloading stuff, I mean a book on Army gear, some optics, lube pad and spray. I also never got a monthly sale flyer this month, wonder is the USPS folks kept it for themselves or if Midway even sent one out this go-round.
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I don't know if Armalite is still running the special, but they were offering 5 mags in a package at a very reasonable price. Even if it is on backorder, get in line if you can.
-Bidah
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Pathfinder,
Midway did not send a flier for February. It was online only. They sent their master catalog this month. They are sending a March flier.
I have so much stuff on backorder from MIdway, I can't keep it straight. The one thing I have been waiting for in particular was a DPMS barrel. I was No. 1 on the backorder list and they cancelled it automatically after 90 days and won't let me reorder it.