The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: Thanos on January 31, 2009, 06:30:06 PM
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Okay, this is the deal: Kimber 1911 Warrior, (My wife got it for me :-*) and it will occasionally not feed the round into the chamber. It gets hung up on the feed ramp. I have read some conflicting articles about how you should/shouldn't polish the ramp and the throat (I think that is what it is called, the part below the feed ramp) Before you even say anything about gunsmithing and polishing steel, I have polished every type of non-hazardous metal known to man and have the proper tools to do this without doing any damage. If I tap the magazine bottom it will put the round up and the slide will move it forward and into the chamber, that is why I think it is getting hung on the ramp. I don't want this to fail me at a critical moment and me be stuck without a working pistol. :o That would suck.
Nevertheless, I was thinking of polishing it and wanted to get some opinions. Does it improve the feed?
The only rounds I have put in the gun are Magtech 230gr FMC 45ACP, it seems like okay ammo, but kind of cheap looking compared to the hand loads that my dad uses. your thoughts? Thanks in advance
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Try a stronger Magazine spring first, if that doesn't cure it then polish it.
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What Tom said.
http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/KimberNF.html (http://www.gunsprings.com/SemiAuto/KimberNF.html)
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+3 on springs. I replace the factory mag springs in all my double stack mags, seems to improve reliability. Never had a problem with single stacks.
If want to see yourself, polish away. :)
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Try a stronger Magazine spring first, if that doesn't cure it then polish it.
Okay, another question then, they are brand new Kimber magazines. And I should replace the springs?
Also, Should I keep them unloaded for storage?
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If you already have what you need to polish the ramp, go ahead, you shouldn't hurt anything.
This is by no means a fix, but if you notice the problem on 1 or all mags, take the problem mag spring out and give it a little stretch. See if that fixes the problem for one or two runs. The spring will return to its previous strength so if that helped you will definately need to replace them.
I have mags that have been loaded for 3 years that always function when I take them out. If you have reliable mags, rotate them being loaded, unloaded to help preserve the springs.
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#1 Kimber is a top notch company, and I would talk to them before I did anything to the gun for a basic an issue as feeding reliability. If I understand your posts this is a new gun? I'd talk to Kimber first!
#2 If I remember correctly Mr. Bane has said a couple things about polishing and how quick it can go wrong. Someone with a better memory than me, including Mr. Bane himself, may correct me, but I believe I remember an episode with him saying that he should not be allowed to own a dremel due to polishing errors. Short answer is that you could end up replacing an expensive part with a little too much "shine."
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I'd try a Colt mag or a USGI.
I have never had a prob with either that was not my doing.
Also polishing the feed ramp is not something most people can do. If you mess it up, it will cost almost as much to fix as it will to buy a new gun.
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I'd talk to Kimber first!
he should not be allowed to own a dremel due to polishing errors.
I will contact Kimber, yes it is a new gun.
I am confident in my polishing ability, I trained as a Goldsmith and Gemologist. My former polishing mistakes cost more than my gun. I would never think of using a "Dremel" tool. I have a $250 variable speed footpedal driven flexshaft with a 1/3 hp motor, Jacobs chuck and felt all cotton sewn polishing buffs with compund that is specific to only stainless steel, nothing else.
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I will contact Kimber, yes it is a new gun.
I am confident in my polishing ability, I trained as a Goldsmith and Gemologist. My former polishing mistakes cost more than my gun. I would never think of using a "Dremel" tool. I have a $250 variable speed footpedal driven flexshaft with a 1/3 hp motor, Jacobs chuck and felt all cotton sewn polishing buffs with compund that is specific to only stainless steel, nothing else.
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Personaly I would go even less aggresive than that, white, or gray ScotchBrite, MAYBE red scotch brite. If I could look at it under a microscope/tool makers scope I might go with a ruby stone just around the edge. And just so you know I'm currently working on medical parts with tolerances as tight as +/- .0005 , MOST fire arms tolerances are +/- .005
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Thanos, polishing is just that, it is not stock removal, more of a blending process, I use a 1/2" felt ball or cone, using green chromate as the polishing media, it should take no more than 2 minutes of polishing for a mirror finish, and blend that into the mouth of the barrel, no more than 2 minutes again, polishing will not harm things in moderation, and you have to work hard for it to harm things without moderation, Using more abrasive compounds can and will cause more metal removal than you want, but stick to Ruby, green or white chromate, and use moderation and you will not go too far. Flow with the original angle and stop at mirror finish.
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Just for the heck of it try some other ammo...WWB or something. Your Kimber might not like the ammo.
FWIW
Richard
PS: With your background polish away!
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Don't worry, I wasn't planning on using all the power of my Foredom. I was planning on poilishing it, not grinding it ;). I think I will give it a try.
I haven't tried other ammo because I still have a ton of the stuff that my wife bought me with the gun.
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I assume you have removed the spring , cleaned and lubricated it as well as the inside of the magazine.....Having said that, gentle polishing of the feed ramp BY HAND, not Dremel, should be fine. However, I am in 100% agreement with replacing/checking the magazine spring first. I doubt ball ammo should be giving you much of a problem....hollowpoints might, but I wouldn't polish unless you have to do so. I had the exact same issue with my Nighthawk Custom government size 1911. Only one magazine kept hanging up when I dropped the slide, constantly just one of the Italian made ACT magazines that came with the gun (exact same magazine as the Novak), all the others worked fine. Another reason why you should always number your magazines and track their performance. After checking the magazine's feed lips and confirming they were OK, I replaced the spring with a Wolff plus 10 lb extra power spring and all is right again. I only carry Wilson ETM magazines these days which have not given me a single FTF or FTE in about a year now. I cycle four of them at the range and carry two of them...all four have work flawlessly for one year, with many rounds through each. But the ACT I keep exclusively for range work and always track which magazine might give me an issue. If the spring doesn't fix the problem, then it could be the feed lips as they sometimes crack or bend (obviously check these first). For example, the ACT mags are notorious for that problem and the reason Nighthawk no longer use them.
You can also try switching magazine springs with one of the magazines that isn't giving you a problem and then observe whether or not the problem goes away with the bad magazine. If it does, you will probably start having issues with the other magazine, which certainly would confirm a spring issue. Either way, the Wolff plus 10 extra power magazine springs are a sound and inexpensive investment, as are their recoil springs which you should change every 2,000 rounds in a government size 5" 1911.....17 or 18 lb springs work well for me. If you shoot mostly 45 ACP then 17 lb is fine, if you shoot a lot of +P ammo then an 18 lb recoil spring is a good way to go. No one makes a better gun spring than Wolff.
If after addressing the magazine spring you are still having problems, dump the magazine. I would do the magazine spring fix first and then if the problem still occurs, just remove that magazine from the equation by tossing it in the trash and move on. Once all problematic issues with the magazines are removed then if the problem still exists then it may be time to consider alternatives like feed ramp polishing, but personally that would be my last resort. I would probably want the manufacturer to address the issue under warranty as if you mess up the gun you have just negated your warranty. Remember 1911 feed issues are almost always magazine related in nature...look there first before modifying the gun itself.
As far as ammo, I've always had good luck with Blazer Brass and Winchester White Box ball ammo from WalMart....about $29 for 100 rounds and very good practice ammo. The Blazer Brass I find is somewhat cleaner than the Winchester but isn't always available. I use CorBon 230 gr JHP for carry though, but may be trying some of the new Hornady Critical Defense round, especially for winter carry where heavy clothing could pose an issue with JHP.
Here's the link to Wolff springs.......good luck and let us know how you make out.
http://www.gunsprings.com/1ndex.html
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Wilson Combat Mag,s EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME
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Wilson Combat Mag,s EVERY TIME ALL THE TIME
+1 on the mags. Still doesn't hurt to polish, even if you're not having problems.
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One thing I did hasn't been mentioned yet. That's deburring and polishing the magazine follower. I had one with serious burrs on the sides and it only took a moment on a fine sharpening stone to deburr it.
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The magazine lips may be a smidge too tight at the front, preventing the cartridge from sitting at the proper angle in the mag.
I'd still polish the ramp. I've done all mine over the years (jeweler's rouge on a cotton buff) with no problems.
John Marshall wrote on the subject:
There is one main area of the frame which must be addressed with respect to reliability. This is the feed ramp, which in most factory-fresh pistols is pretty rough, with plenty of tooling marks. The objective here is to polish the ramp until there is a very smooth surface for the chambering round to work against. Take great care not to change the angle of the ramp, and to maintain a fairly sharp edge at the upper lip of the ramp. In some cases, if the tooling marks are pretty deep, it’s not wise to try to take down the ramp until the tool marks disappear completely – just polish-flatten the marks out a bit. Keep in mind that you absolutely must have that 1/32nd of an inch gap between the frame ramp and the lower edge of the barrel. Pistols have been absolutely ruined by improper shaping and polishing of the feed ramp, and the only solution is either a new frame or inserting and welding a new feed ramp surface. Both solutions are expensive, so be careful! Again, the standard technique of using successively fine grades of sandpaper, crocus cloth, and polishing compound is utilized. Your finger makes a good backing for the polishing medium; I advise against using a dowel or other hard object, as this may alter the shape of the ramp unduly.
http://www.sightm1911.com/lib/tech/reliability_secrets.htm
Allan Tillman wrote:
........The feed ramp of the frame is only polished. Only on very rare occasions does it need to be reshaped. I also polish the face of the slide so the cartridge base has nothing to impede its progress. At no time do you match the feed ramp to the barrel. There is supposed to be a small gap between them and without the gap, the gun doesn’t feed.
http://www.m1911.org/technic4.htm
Good luck.
8)
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The only rounds I have put in the gun are Magtech 230gr FMC 45ACP, it seems like okay ammo, but kind of cheap looking compared to the hand loads that my dad uses. your thoughts? Thanks in advance
If your pistol will not feed FMJ, I doubt polishing the feed ramp will solve your problem. The problem is more likely with the magazine. Try Wilson Combat magazines. They work, period, end of discussion.