The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: CDR on February 18, 2007, 05:36:23 PM
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Hi,
Michael if you are reading this, I just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy Shooting Gallery each week. I record every episode and I particularly enjoyed your episode with Walt Rauch and the snubbies....great stuff. I think I watched it 10 times so far...he's a great character and has great insight and, most importantly, common sense. Following that show, you put me over the top on which gun to carry day in and day out and I have decided to go with a snubby for pocket concealed carry here in New York State in a pocket holster. Talk about a challenge, getting a CCW in New York State has to be experienced to be believed. They make it as difficult and discouraging as possible as you know.
The difficulty I am having is trying to make a choice in snubby. I have it narrowed down between the S&W 340 PD (scandium frame with titanium cylinder) or the newly announced S&W 340 M&P (scandium frame with blackened stainless steel cylinder). I know the difference in weight is about 1.3 ounces favoring the titanium, but my main difficulty in finalizing my decision has more to do with the front sights than the negligible difference in weight. The new M&P snubbie comes factory equipped with the XS standard dot front sight as opposed to the 340 PD which has the choice of traditional red ramp or the Hi Viz fiber optic. I don't know which is best never having tried an XS sight (I am near sighted in my late 40s by the way so front sight pickup is important and challenging). The M&P 340 snubby also has the option of having factory installed Crimson Trace Laser grips as an added advantage, albeit quite expensive. I am leaning toward that option, however, but as I can also have the laser grips installed on the 340 PD (which is about $100 more expensive than the M&P model due to the titanium cylinder) it again comes down to which model option offers the superior front sight.
Michael, or anyone else, if you can offer a recommendation based on personal experience with these models or sights I would appreciate it. Both scandium snubbies will be expensive, but only marginally more with the 340 PD, so I want to go with the best option. Probably with the Crimson Trace Laser grips with either model (I know how highly you think of these grips Michael), as I know you can also add the laser grips to the 340 PD.
Lastly, would you recommend carrying the .357 magnum load (I know it will kick like heck and I would practice with .38 and .38+P and finish up with a few .357 magnum loads) but the reason I ask is that a lot of the data seems to show that ballistically the advanages of the .357 magnum load might not be that much more than the .38+P load when you take into account the negatives of recoil, getting back on target quickly and muzzle flash that is affiliated with the scandium snubbie. I routinely practice at the range with my Smith and Wesson 686 4 " .357 magnum but agree with what you said Michael in the Walt Rauch episode, i.e. if the gun is too big and too heavy, you wont carry it all the time. That's the point. you'll always carry a snubbie. Like Walt said, "Its not a sometime gun, it's an all the time gun." For me it will always be in my front pocket in a pocket holster.....just which one??
Thanks everyone for your recommendations and thanks again Michael for a really wonderful show and website. I'm pulling for you for a renewed contract with the Outdoor Channel. The best of luck.
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As to what to buy, first off you need two; a lightweight for carry and a steel gun for practice. If you are financially strapped, get the lightweight only. Regardless use light .38 loads for practice.and practice often. You can also "cheat" by putting on larger grips on for the practice session as what you, I think, should be learning is the DA trigger and acquiring reflexive familiarity with the gun.
As far as sights and aging eyes, the XS Dot, which I have on my travel Model 642, works well for all but making nice groups on small bullseye targets (and you can do this too after you get familiar with them.)
I have no more than casual experience using "Tru-Glo" and "Hi-Viz" sights and this only in bright daylight; not a balanced evaluation.
Don't be too concerned about wearing out the gun you can always buy another one. Think of the Snubby in terms of insurance. Each year you pay auto and homeowners and get nothing for your money but piece of mind. With a gun you get this as well as a gun to shoot.
Regards;
Walt
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Hi Walt,
Wow, I never expected to receive a response directly from you. I must say it is indeed an honor and I appreciate you taking the time to provide your very valuable advice....thank you.
I had planned to practice with my 686 4" and scandium snubby during each range visit, figuring that the double action mode that exists on both revolvers would be similar. I was planning to practice with the lighter .38 load in the snubby session and finishing up with either .38+P or .357 Magnum loads (still not sure about that one as I don't look forward to catching Nolan Ryan's fastball barehanded). I had been debating on getting a 640 instead of the scandium, but my local gunshop advised me that the 640 is too heavy for all day pocket carry. He said by the end of the day I would be leaning to one side. My thought was to go for a scandium model Smith and Wesson as the frame is somewhat stronger than the all aluminum Airweight and would holdup better through many rounds of practice. Besides, Smith and Wesson provides a lifetime warranty should the frame crack or any other major disaster occur, so I don't even worry about wear and tear on any of their products.
As the scandium option snubby with laser grips approaches $1,000 I am now wondering given what you said about buying a steel snubby as well, if I am better served getting an Airweight and a 640 for about the same money, and probably less? Or should I stay with the 340 M&P or 340 PD model and get the 640 later on?
As for loads, are you recommending just to stay away from .357 Magnum loads and simply carry .38+P for the lightweight snubby?
Thanks again Walt. I appreciate your response.
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OK, let's see what we have here;
Trigger actions of L and J frames differ so much that you will not get J frame skills by shooting an L frame.
640 too heavy for all day carry? 20 some ounces v 12? I don't think so. But then you might be six feet tall and weight under 100 pounds. As such you might be more prone to "tip over" than is normal.(grin!)
Shooting more than one cylinder full of magnums in a "no weight" J frame? Before doing so, find a cracked baseball bat and do some batting practice. If you like what you feel, then by all means go ahead. Seriously, tolerating the .357 magnum recoil in lightweight guns varies I T&Ed one of the first in J frame; did not like the experience and will not do again unless it is a test gun.
Choice of guns and models, you have to make the call. The nice part of buying the wrong gun is you get a "do over" and can buy another one.
My last snubby purchase was a 9mm Model 940. It's pleasant enough for me to be able shoot a box or two of standard velocity 9mm (thanks in no small part to the rubber grips; here Uncle Mikes). If you look at 9mm velocities, most standard loads are the same as +P .38s.
OK, now that I beat around the bush, what do I recommend? Get a plain Jane steel J frame , a good pocket holster or two from any of the name holster makers and a case of .38 remanufactured wadcutters from Black Hills or any other firm of equal quality ammo. Carry the gun and shoot the ammo up. I bet at the end of this you'll have the answers to your questions.
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Nicely done, Walt!
You can pick up older steel J-frames for kibbles and bits (I've paid as little as $150 for 'em with the finish pretty much rubbed off...of course, on one that I got that cheap the barrel sort of unscrewed on its own and fell out!).
I also would like to point out that I carry a BORING Taurus Ultra-Lite Total Titanium in .38 Special a lot of the time. I shoot standard pressure .38 Specials in it (infrequently...it does bark); when I practice with a snub, I use one of theheavier J-frames.
You wanna shoot .357s, get a little Ruger SP-101...the ergonomics of a brick bat, but sturdy little beasts! I'd rather stick my hand in a blender than shoot the ultralight .357s!
Michael B
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Walt and Michael,
Thanks very much for your insight and recommendations, it is very much valued and appreciated. I've shot .38 and .38+P loads out of a friend's Airweight 442 model but never tried .357 loads as the snubby was rated to .38+Ps. I didn't have a problem with either load but then I only shot about 10 of each just to see what the gun was like. It seems to be unanimous that unless one is a complete masochist, the .357 magnum load is verboten. Besides, who wants a bloody pulp for a right hand? I just never realized that the difference between the +P loads and .357 magnum loads is that significant. Now I know.
I have tried a model 60 in my pocket at my local gun shop to see what it felt like and found it was fine (I'm under 6 feet and over 220 lbs so no chance of me toppling over anytime soon Walt...:-)) What I have heard though is that with a stainless steel, 23 ounce snubby (like the 640 Centennial model) in your front pocket that the issue is when you walk or run (another rarity) as the weight of the gun and its greater momentum tends to swing in your pocket. Otherwise, that is the model I originally started with in my mind, the 640 in a Robert Mika holster. I only started looking at the S&W scandium snubbies because of this moving weight issue. I would prefer to carry .357 loads for personal protection as the effectiveness of this load is outstanding. Given the inability to practice sufficiently with that load in a lightweight snubby, however, and the consequential reduced confidence that comes with less practice, I am now thinking differently and thinking about going back to the 640 for pocket carry and range practice. The 640 does appear to have a larger grip and slightly longer muzzle so I don't know if that negatively effects pocket carry in any way, but I know it assists in holding on to the revolver (I've got large hands) and probably in muzzle flash and muzzle velocity.
Michael, I know you mentioned you carry the Taurus with its relative brick bat weight, but for pocket carry, would you think the 640 would work in a Mika holster? I'm guessing you carry the Taurus holstered as it would have to be too much in your pocket, no? Walt, I think you feel that the 640 would work. Could either of you let me know if you would rate this model as my best choice or is there any other J frame you would recommend.
Thank you again gentlemen for being so accessible. This is really a wonderful site Michael......I'm already in for the Brue Gray 1911. Good decision making the drawing on April 14th. This means we can actually look forward to income tax day.
Regards
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Awesome to get these tips from the experts !
I own and carry a 340PD with the red-ramp front sights and am a big fan of this gun.
I frequently shoot moderate .38's out of it (Winchester Winclean is my favorite practice round) and do not find the recoil excessive with these - I generally shoot a box of 50 every month or so.
I will occasionally shoot some .357 Magnums out of it (shot a handful today actually). It can be painful - but making sure you have the "web" of your hand way up on the gun helps a lot.
For carry, I DO fill it up with Speer Gold Dot "Short-Barrel" .357 magnums and carry a Bianchi Speed Strip or two of extra rounds - usually .38 Federal Hydrashocks or Winchester Silvertips.
There is no question this is an expensive gun. Adding the Crimson Trace Lasergrips is a good idea but you can always do it later...
I have had fiber-sights break before, and given what this gun could go through, I think the plain old red-ramps work just fine.
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Amazingly, I'm working on a video (which should go up mid-week, BTW) on pocket pistols in general and why they shoudl always be holstered. For the J-frames, I use a DeSantis Nemesis...cheap, fits everything. For my .380 Mustang...forgive me, world, but my favorite pocket pistol for years...I use a Pcpket Concealment Systems holster. PCS are the best pocket holster makers in the world, with one for every pocket ever conceived of...
I'll have all the contact material up with the video...and I'm looking forward to getting Walt out to Colorado for more filming (it has to thaw first!)
Michael B
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Can't wait to see the video Michael. Just watched Part 1 on concealed carry...nice job. Really looking forward to the pocket carry segment and certainly any new feature you plan to film with Walt. Great stuff!!!
Thanks!!
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I had been debating on getting a 640 instead of the scandium, but my local gunshop advised me that the 640 is too heavy for all day pocket carry. He said by the end of the day I would be leaning to one side.
I carry a Taurus M605 (24oz unloaded) in my pocket all day. I forget it is there! I work in an office. No one knows, no one notices. I wear dockers or when allowed, jeans (the pockets are larger than most jeans). I like the weight. I also have carried a S&W 642 (16 oz??). Uncle Mike's pocket holster or DeSantis.
I"d give the 640 a try.
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I've been carrying a S&W Model 60-14. In the winter it rides in a DeSantis holster in my coat pocket. In the summer I switch to a Mernickle PS6 belt holster. I carry 2 Safariland speed loaders. I put a set of Crimson Trace Laser Grips on it, not so much for the laser, but I found that the grip itself made managing recoil a lot easier. I've been using Speer GoldDot Short Barrel .357 magnums for the past couple of months and I can still type this post.
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Hi Walt and Michael,
I'm curious as to what specific loads (caliber and brand) you both most frequently use when carrying your snubbies for self defense? Also, which snubby do you each find yourselves reaching for most often?
By the way Michael, I see in your article that you have the M&P 340 on your "lust list" for small guns....me too. I spoke with Smith and Wesson today, as I have one on order, and was told that they expect them to ship by the end of March. They said the finish appears to be more durable than that on the current 340 line and said people are going to be well pleased with this new snubby. Can't wait to see it.
Thanks
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The great "what ammo" question!
For years, my answer has been "whatever rounds(factory) I find on top of my dresser". Now, thanks to competition among ammo companies, you can buy ammo specifically tailored for short barrel revolvers such as the 135 gr. HP CCI Gold Dot. Remington, Winchester and Federal as well as CORBON, Black Hills and Hornady all have excellent loads for short barrels.
I'll use any of them but now I at least take time to take the five rounds from the same box. Right now, my every day M42 has the Gold Dots in it. But I have, already pre packed, a box of Hornady and CORBON in my airline lockable case along with my S&W M642.
You might ask why not the others? I use them as well but for airline travel some brands pack 20 or 25 to the box cutting down on weight and giving me more room for other calibers.
Good multiple hits are what is important. Choose ammo which allows you to do this.
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Hi Walt,
Thank you very much for your advice on the choice of ammo. Thanks also to the others who have provided their thoughtful responses to my questions. I appreciate your assistance and valuable input.
I tell you, after reading everyone's comments, I am seriously considering changing my recently placed M&P 340 order, which is a month or so from probable delivery, and going with a stainless steel model 640 in a front pocket holster. It seems that perhaps it isn't too much for a pocket snubby with respect to weight. Also, the slightly larger grips will probably work well with my larger hands. Still not 100% yet, but I do like the ability to carry and practice more readily and less painfully with the +P and .357 magnum loads. I guess I'm on the fence. If anyone wants to try and push me over to one side I'm willing to listen.
Thanks again
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Buy both.
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Buy both.
Thanks Walt......the thought has crossed my mind more than once in recent days. The spousal unit will certainly provide resistance to this approach as you might well imagine. For purposes of harmony, the purchase of both may have to be spread out a bit if you know what I mean. Now the question becomes.......which one comes first??
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Steel. You'll want to practice.
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Thanks so much Walt......much appreciated.
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I guess I am really old fashion.When I carry a snubby it is a Colt Det. Special loaded whith 135gr Speer . I like the grip and always carry in a holster.
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CDR, I have struggled with finding the "right" carry pistol just as you have. I have come to the conclusion that I like carrying a J frame in my front pocket. I carry one every day, everywhere I go. I have a Taurus plain steel Model 85 and a S&W 640 and an old style Colt's Dick Special. I prefer the 640 as it is easier to draw from the pocket with no snags. I carry Gold Dots in the warmer months and revert to 158 gr round nosed lead bullets in the Winter. P. O. Ackley proved long ago that heavy winter clothing can really negate the effectiveness of hollow points and the old lead round nose load can plow on through.
If you have some spare cash around, I would suggest sending a 640 to Bowen Classic Arms for sights and tuning. www.bowenclassicarms.com. Hamilton Bowen has a great set of sights and is renouned for making Smiths smooth and fine in DA. Go to the bottom of this page for a description and photo. http://www.bowenclassicarms.com/NEW/SWpackages.htm
Mike
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Hey Mike,
Great posting...thanks very much. Thanks also for the link to Bowen Classic Arms as they look to be a good source for some DA enhancing. Interesting perspective on your selection of ammunition, by the way, relative to clothing weight. I'd love to hear some opinions on this issue as this is something most people wouldn't consider...thanks.
Also Mike, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on the weight of the 640 in your front pocket as most seem to be divided on this question. Some think it is way too heavy and you are better off with an Airweight or Scandium, while others say the steel snubby is no problem. Have you had any issues with the weight and I assume you use a pocket holster?
Thanks again.
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Mike Daly can't control himself when it comes to custom pistol gurus! I hear he even sent his CAR to Hamilton Bowen for a "slight overhaul and upgrade!"!
Now that I've made fun of my friend, the Bowen snubby sights are just great...they make a world of different in quickly picking up a sight picture. It's hard to argue with a J-frame for simple utility. One of the tings I'm going to cover in the on-going DOWN RANGE CCW series is the idea of the "door gun," and, no, I don't mean an M-60 on a pedestal behind a sliding door...although as I get older and more paranoid, the idea does have some merit.
One of my snubbies lives in a downstairs cabinet not far from the front door. With it are a DeSantis Nemesis pocket holster, a brightly colored fanny pack/holster and a couple of full speedloaders. The idea is that because I work in the home, usually in front of a computer, it's a pain in the patootie to "harness up" to run to the conveninece store, etc. I also love outdoor activities like hiking, jogging, bicycling, snowshoeing in the winter, etc. The "door gun" makes it easy for me to have some protection with a minimum of hassle. For the convenience store, stick the Nemesis and gun in pocket; for a short jog, pop the snubby into the fanny pack. One of my excellent winter/spring alternatives is the Sig-Tac Concealed Carry Jacket...I have one of the "tobacco" colored ones that I've worn for a couple of years doing chores; it looks exactly like everyone elses' faded brown utility canvas jacket here in the mountains, the "most invisible" carry device I own. Aside from theubiquitous Carhardts, every hardware store in the mountains offers el-cheapo Carhardt knock-offs, so they're everywhere. I went to dinner the otehr night at a little mountain restaurant and probably 60% of the men in the restaurant and a lot of the women were wearing the same dull jacket...PERFECT! I can't remember which one it was, but one of teh big self-defense newsletters recently had an article on their second concealed carry conference/class, where they mentioned that at the first class, everyone looked either a 5.11 catalog or a recruiting poster for the SEALS. Bu the second conference/class, everyone looked like construction workers. Hmmmmmm, what do I see more of in my day-to-day travels...SEAL Team 4 or construction workers?
Secondly, it helps address the issue of a two-story house. Most of us have the heavy hardware in or near our bedrooms, which, in a 2-story house are usually on the second floor. I've read that I should consider carrying a gun in my usual carry rig when I'm in the house...well, there have been a couple of times when I did just that (go back to the first CCW video on "risk factors"). Strangely enough, as a reporter, I occasionally pissed people off — I can hear Walt and Daly laughing now! "Occasionally!?!" they're thinking. But generally, I'm glad to have a little time when I'm NOT carrying a gun on my belt. You have to "stage" a self-defense firearm close to where you might actually need it...downstairs.
Michael B
PS: Daly, the .44 Maggie snubbie "car gun" project continues apace with Jim Stroh...I think I'm going to have him set it up with C&S "Extreme Duty" fixed sigts regulated for 240-grain JHPs on the theory that a car gun gets bounced around a lot, and you don't shoot a big snub all that much for fun. I'll practice with an all-steel Taurus 3-inch .44 Special, whicih is pretty much a tank!
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I have no issue with the 640. I have a 642 on order so I will get to try it out soon. I am not certain why I ordered the 642 as I really do not notice the 640 after the first 5 minutes it is in my pocket.
I have a selection of pocket holsters. I really have not found one that leaps out as way better than any other. I guess it is all a matter of personal preference.
I read P. O. Ackley on bullet selection years ago and have done a great deal of load testing. I have found that heavy winter coats tend to have plugs cut from it that would fill the end of a hollow point bullet preventing any hydraulic action from occuring. This would almost always prevent the bullet from expanding but it would also steal energy in the form of penetration. A hard cast lead round nose tends to penetrate heavy clothing and move on through the test media. Now, I am not saying that the round nose lead bullet is a wonderful round as a man stopper. I am saying that under the conditions of encountering heavy winter clothing and being limited to a 38 SPl., I think they are a valid choice.
I think Michael Bane would agree that Hamilton Bowen is a wizard with a Smith & Wesson. His work is worth the fee.
Mike
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Mr. Bane,
Ok, I resemble those remarks.
I do agree about staging appropriate firearms in the home. Home invasion has become fairly popular in our area with the normal suspects being involved. I have arranged a short barreled double 12 ga at the front door, an 870 under the bed along with a 1911 in the nightstand and a 12 ga double at the back door. The room where I read, play the guitar, watch TV, etc has a handgun within reach of my chair always. Each firearm has it's place to rest in a ready position which is not easily detected.
I carry every minute I am outside the house.
I hope to never be put in the position to find the need to shoot anyone. But, I refuse to allow my family or myself to be the victim of some piece of human feces.
Mike
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A bit off subject - snubbies - but I recommend guns dedicated to be in fixed locations be those you don't use, use least or don't all that much care about.
My experience is I will neglect to immediately return the gun to its hiding place if I carried it or took it out for an "airing" at the range. (I know, I should put one in its place when I remove the one I take but ...good intentions pave the road to ....)
Also by doing this, you can set the gun up for the specific tactical applications such as with mounted light, laser, low penetration ammo or whatever.This practice allows you to justify that wonderful gun you paid too much for because you had to have it but turns out to be not what you anticipated. Also an excuse to just buy other guns.
What did I stash? This will remain unanswered.
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These are all great suggestions for having a gun nearby. Not everyone will be able/want to have guns "around" the house due to their life styles (ie, young children). And I know no one is suggesting just having a gun laying around out in the open.
I struggled with what to do about home protection for sometime. Our kids are grown and gone but the grand-boys are coming around now. My solution came when Ohio finally enacted conceal carry. My Taurus M605 all steel w/concealed hammer rests in my pocket holster at all times. When I'm upstairs posting on these forum, or downstairs watching Shooting Gallery, my gun is with me.
I know not everyone will be able/want to carry this way. Everyone needs to find their own solution. Downrange TV is a perfect place to help you find that solution.
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I read P. O. Ackley on bullet selection years ago and have done a great deal of load testing. I have found that heavy winter coats tend to have plugs cut from it that would fill the end of a hollow point bullet preventing any hydraulic action from occuring. This would almost always prevent the bullet from expanding but it would also steal energy in the form of penetration. A hard cast lead round nose tends to penetrate heavy clothing and move on through the test media. Now, I am not saying that the round nose lead bullet is a wonderful round as a man stopper. I am saying that under the conditions of encountering heavy winter clothing and being limited to a 38 SPl., I think they are a valid choice.
I remember reading about an FBI survey...something about a T shirt delaying expansion by 2" or so which surprised everyone. What do you think about a Hydrashok bullet....it's got the little post sticking up from the hollow.....???????? A lot of people like the speer gold dot...others are partial to the golden sabre...but I like the hydrshok...maybe because Federal makes 'em look pretty...I dunno.
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I have a S&W 342-PD Airlite Ti that I carry from time to time, I have shot it with .38+P ammo and yes it stings some, But it stops hurting when you stop shooting it. I did replace the rubber "bootgrips" with a set of wood Secret Service Boot grips that are a better fit for my large hands. I think that having a proper fit in this area will go a long way to shooter comfort and control . I have found that the +P Federal Hydrashoks work best for me, as far as accuracy and reported performance. I don't think you will be disappointed with any S&W J frame that you decide to get, But to me the 340 series is with out a doubt one of the finest choices you can make.
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Suggest consider S&W Model 60 with 3" barrel. Is almost as easy to conceal, and the longer barrel improves control and reduces recoil significantly. I can point shoot a 3" barrel fairly easily, but with a 1-1/2 or 2" barrel I have no good idea of where it points until I look at the gun.
Holster your gun against your body, and it won't flap in the wind. If you put a gun in a jacket pocket it will flap and flop around when you or the wind move rapidly. Also, if the jacket is not buttoned or zipped, when you pull the gun the jacket will tend to come up with the gun.
If you get a revolver off the shelf or from a private sale, make sure it says .357 Magnum on it someplace. Then you can always use 38s for practice. If it says 38, 357s just won't fit.
Just my humble opinions, your mileage may vary.
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I love Snubbies!
A couple of thoughts on everyday carry- (Thanks to M25operator for suggesting this forum)
I have found an appendix carry position has certain advantages- doesn't interfere with normal pocket operations or bulk up the pocket and can be unobtrusive and accessible. try a rubber band around the grip (prevents moving laterally) and a shoelace made into a 4" long loop for vertical positioning- one end of the loop around a belt loop & the other around the barrel where it meets the frame and then tucked inside your pants. Works equally well while sitting. This is an old WWII resistance trick to carry a pistol and also be able to release the string and drop the gun down the trouser leg in the event of a search. Of course, people wore looser pants in those days.
I have carried a 442 and practiced with a 940 for years. The light gun for carry and heavy gun for practice is very sound advice. You have to do a lot of practice to hit with these little suckers, but it is fun when you learn how to connect.
For practice, slow way down and see if you can take up the slack and cock the internal hammer before releasing the shot. Do this for each cylinder to get a feel for these weapons. Practice fast presentation and deliberate shooting, quickness will develop. Besides, you only have 5 to count.
For extreme lighweight carry, consider magsafe or equivalent ammo- not much different from unloaded weight.
Thanks to you guys for suggesting the lasergrip addition- I am definitely going to try this.
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CDR to add to the discussion, I have shot the light weight and standard steel snubbies. the light weight need awfully light loads to practice much with. With standard 38 special I felt like I was shooting a short barreled 44 magnum. The steel ones although heavier ar far more comfortable to practice with for me. since I became a cancer patient I started turning a S&W 649 into may "cancer" gun. It is lighter than what I normally carry, since I don't have the forearm and grip strength I used to at the moment. Once it is finished I will post a picture of it and details of what was done.
Willie
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After reading all these responses, I like this place more and more. I would like to suggest one alternative that I did not remember seeing in any of the responses. Have you considered the airweight j-frames? I see some mentioned the 642. I daily carry a 638-3 in a pocket holster when I am off duty and it rides in an ankle holster when I am working as a BUG to my department issued Glock 19. I have owned scandium revolvers and found that they are just too punishing to even practice with. I have a steel 640 and unless you plan on buying a used older model 38 special only, the new 357 versions are (IMHO) too heavy for every day pocket carry. I would suggest (as some have) the 642, 442, 637 or the 638. I recently added the Crimson Trace LG-405 grips to mine and find that this is just about the best CCW package that I have encountered in the 16 years that I have been carrying guns.
You have been given some good advice by some of the experts and what I have is pretty much .02 cents worth compared to theirs but I thought it was worth mentioning. Whatever you decide I think that everyone would agree that a j-frame is a fine choice.
Regards.
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I have a 642-2 with the lock on it and it shoots just fine. I use remingtons green and white box 125+ps .38 ammo to shoot in the gun along with the LG305s grips. The 305 grips are even with the grip part of the frame. And I group at 25 yards 3.05 inches. Not bad for a Smith 642-2. And I have no problem with the locking system on the gun. Rich Ziemies,642z,Omaha,Ne. 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Right now, I have a 28 oz Taurus 617 in my front right pocket. I'm Barely noticing it's there. You should have no problems carrying the 640 that way. I have it in it's Bianchi model 6 Leather IWB holster. Now I DON'T carry this everyday. I did this just to test it out. I too will be getting a pocket revolver sometime this year. I'm Wanting either a S&W 649 in .357, or a Taurus 651. I'm leaning towards the Taurus. Cause they seem a little easier to find at the gun shows and such. When I get one, I'm gonna put Lasergrips on them. I'm almost as big a fan of them as Mike Bane. I don't like the ones for GLOCKS though. Changes the Grip too much.
How do Y'all feel about the shrouded hammer models like the S&W 649 and Taurus 651? I like the idea of having reduced snag on the draw with the option of still using single action when I may want.
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PS: Daly, the .44 Maggie snubbie "car gun" project continues apace with Jim Stroh...I think I'm going to have him set it up with C&S "Extreme Duty" fixed sigts regulated for 240-grain JHPs on the theory that a car gun gets bounced around a lot, and you don't shoot a big snub all that much for fun. I'll practice with an all-steel Taurus 3-inch .44 Special, whicih is pretty much a tank!
I'd like to hear more about that project. Sounds interesting.