The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Teresa Heilevang on February 02, 2009, 09:38:34 PM
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In the politics section, there is a post from runstowin...........
"quote....
We individually as households need to get prepared for disasters. I have not done everything I need to do (it is a work in progress) but i have done the following: Bought a Berkey Lite water filter, it can filter a lot of water per day, and it was designed to be used with raw water ( I live 6 tenths of a mile from a creek), freezed dried food, paper plates, towels, napkins, cups, trash bags, surgical type gloves, sleeping bags, insulated boots thermo socks, 4 mountain bikes, plastic utensils, cash, Ragnar's Urban Survival, etc.
...unquote
This got me to thinking. I know that there are lots of articles and lists out there for "survival necessities"..
but some of them are way over the top .. ( unless of course we hit the bottom of the well).
Which very well could happen..
But I also know that it seems that we who live in small town rural country.. to those who live in the cities seem to have different gear stashed away.
I guess I would like to know who has what and how much do you keep on hand ...
I have food, but then .. the expiration dates are a factor. and some things..but honestly? I bet if the s**t hit the fan... I would be short some things I hadn't thought of..
I need to be doing some research on water filters.. ( one that doesn't take electricity and one that does)
is there some items and brands that are better than others?
We have a huge lake on our property.. BUT.. what scares me is "what if the water is polluted by fly overs?? "what then?
I know that several of the people who I run around with "talk" about starting to gather stuff up, but they haven't yet.. and I think that is the way of a lot of people.
Just want to kick some stuff around and pick your brains on this.
runstowin had a great list to start out with.. so lets add to it..
If you were helping people
"be prepared" on a limited budget.. what would you help them gather up. ?
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I have a couple of small filters, we keep several cases of bottled water on hand, Lots of canned goods(my wife likes sale items), tuna and other canned meats, and the one thing you can't have enough of ammo. Fire wood and extra blankets we always have on hand. About the only thing we don't keep alot of is gasoline(noway to store a large amount). We have tried to keep ahead of the game for awhile now.
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Well, that is a GREAT idea, after all, there are people dying right now from the ice storm. I have been thinking a lot about preparedness lately. And just to throw another idea out there, what does anyone think is needed expressly for short term survival in this situation for the spouse and kids in case the main person in charge of this sort of thing is away from home on business or where ever? My wife is very capable and has a lot of common sense, when it comes to being in the situation. Just none when it comes to preparedness. :(. I can only do so much before she is ready to call the looney squad on me because, of course, "That wouldn't happen here." ::) ::) ::)
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First and foremost you must have something between your ears besides slogans and vacuum. All the "Stuff" in the world won't save you if you don't use your brain. I tell everybody to go to http://www.survivalblog.com/ (http://www.survivalblog.com/) I have posted a few articles there myself.
After that;
Water, some form of water purification even if that just means the ability to boil the stuff. Google "Field expedient water purification"
Food, yes you may have guns and you may be able to hunt and farm, but can you do it NOW? Will the game be available when you go out to hunt? Food takes many weeks to grow (mostly), so what do you do till the crops are in? Don't waste money buying long term storage food if you can't afford it. Go here http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/fn579-1.htm (http://www.ag.ndsu.edu/pubs/yf/foods/fn579-1.htm) and buy the stuff you would buy anyway.
TOOLS! Do you have what you need to keep your guns running? Your car? Own an Axe (and know how to use it)? Do you have gardening tools, or do you expect the plants to naturally bore into the ground and spring up full blown? Can you turn a deer or fish into food. or do you expect them to spontaneously convert into plastic wrapped cuts of meat? How good are your kitchen knives, will they last a life time or do you have to go to Wally World every couple years? Do you have a shovel? Find what you use or what other people use for you and figure out if you really have what it takes, like plumbing, car repair, electrical work (including converting to use alternative sources of energy like batteries and generators for things like light). I myself have been suffering because I have no axe here in Montana, no axe means no wood for the wood burning stove, that is a major problem for me (but one I will solve next week). Do you have a way to burn wood without burning your house down or suffocating everyone? You can build things to replace much of what society has made cheap for use (food, heat, water, sewerage, shelter) but without tools you may not live long enough to do it.
Guns, for hunting and defense, but also PEST CONTROL, pests eat more food than people and will starve you to death if you have no way to eliminate them. You don't want to risk killing your own animals or yourself with poisons and traps can only do so much. A good pellet rifle is a wonderful thing, and 100,000 pellets is a heck of a lot cheaper than even .22lr's. Don't forget about parts and magazines or you will have some very fancy clubs.
SALT, Matches, Lighters & fuel, without salt you die, and unless you live near the sea you cannot make your own (most mines are contaminated with Potassium Chloride which is poisonous). Most people who think about survivalism think about fire-starters (magnesium blocks, blast match, etc.) which are cool, but a bucket load of book matches and cheap disposable lighters, to say nothing about a Zippo, a few hundred flints and a few gallons of fuel will be far better for day to day use, to say nothing of trading with those of less foresight.
Medicine, including prescription meds as well as the general stuff for trauma and disease. Don't forget your prescription glasses as well.
I'll quit now as this could go on for months. Hit Survivalblog.com for more.
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wow................ I learned lots..............
and I will go to the sites..and do more research.
To most of my friends...I am considered kind of 'over the edge' .
They think ( up to a point) the way I do.. but they still have that head in the sand.. it isn't going to get ""That Bad"... and it might happen in the city.. but it won't affect us way out here mentality..
whatever............I quit arguing with them about it. ::)
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Good post Warhawke. If you are talking long term the lists could go on forever. My post was more short term(ice or snow storm).
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I think any information from everyone in all areas can be used and learned from..
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I need to be doing some research on water filters.. ( one that doesn't take electricity and one that does)
is there some items and brands that are better than others?
I have been using my Berkey Lite every day for over 3 years to filter my tap water, needs no electricity and it is portable.
There are other models available, mine is polycarbonate, others are stainless steel.
I bought mine from Radio Liberty.com
This site is a part of the ministry of Dr, Stan Monteith, very knowledgeable and a true patriot. He has lots of good information to read and to buy. Links below.
http://www.radioliberty.com/berkey.html
http://www.radioliberty.com/
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Both of my filters are the pump kind you use for camping
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Your preps should go from;
Oh Dang, the lights went out. To
Oh Darn, I lost my job. To
Oh Damn, things are getting ugly. To
Oh Hell, the store was empty with hungry looking people outside. To
Holy Crap, Riots and Looters and Gangs oh My. To
Holy Shit, Zombies (or mushroom clouds, aliens {the green kind}, whatever).
You can stop at any point you feel events are likely to clam down and return to normal at. However, if you have sufficient preparations you can handle just about any situation well. I prepared for TEOTWAWKI but my preps have helped my through injury, unemployment and a host of everyday oops's. Heck, I would be in much worse shape now if it were not for the stuff I had and learned as a survivalist. I have however learned how much I need to work on since my move to Montana. Preparation, like perfection, is a road, not a destination.
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Here in California, it's good to be prepared. I've got a lot of what we need (stored water, freeze dried food, gloves, flashlights, etc.). We've got some of those Rubbermade plastic bins full of all types of supplies. We specifically waited until Halloween to get the Orange ones, so they would stand out as EMERGENCY supplies. The things that I keep near the side of the bed are gun, ammo, flashlight, jeans, sturdy shoes, cell phone and HAM radio HT. We are absolutely going to have a big shaker eventually and a study at UCI, that was reported last week, says we are historically overdue. Ultimately, it'd be pretty stupid for me to be interested in self defense against the criminal element but not in defending my family from a very probable natural disaster.
The guitarist from the Sex Pistols had a radio show here until a couple of weeks ago, and I remember after one catastrophe he commented that all you need is "beans, bullets and gasoline!"
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Warhawke beat me to it - referencing Rawles' Survivlblog.com. It is a great site, covers all of the scenarios Warhawke covered in his latest post, contains searchable archives. Rawles authored the book Patriots, which is a great novel and an incredible how-to on survival.
He has also authored a self-directed training course called Rawles Gets You Ready, which I am still trying to get finished - other demands on my time. But the minus 20 temps that have returned have me seriously concerned, not to mention the 40" of snow we got in December alone. Where will it go when it melts? It's pretty flat around here.
Here's a very short list for me
Food - some in sealed cans and gamma lid plastic buskets, not enough tho, and not enough variation; limited stored water too
Batteries - some, but in any long-term SHTF, most battery operated devices will be worthless unless you have a solar charger - no I do not; flashlights have all been converted to LEDs to reduce power consumption, with the Krypton bulbs kept for backup use
Gas and diesel properly stored
Guns and ammo
Camping gear, bug out bag, etc. - I'm set on this, but did not plan on the GF's daughter and granddaughter living with us
Radios - receiver only and walkie-talkie types - remember, radio communications are always not secure
Medical kits - lots, including a mobile medical ER/backpack; just updated the aging and out of date supplies (pills, ointments, etc.) - Emergency Essentials sells those little packets of 2 pills or single use ointments to have along with the bulk Wally World supplies; EE also sells freeze dried foods in bulk cans and cases as well
Clothing - adequate for a shorter long-term SHTF, say 1-2 years
I am also considering the local EMT-B class for enhancing my medical preparedness.
Bug out vehicle is down at the moment, busted tranny, getting it fixed next week.
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A friend of mine a couple of years ago was living in Naples FL. It was him, his wife and two small kids under 3. A hurricane was predicted for southern florida and I called him 5 days before land fall. I asked when he was going to get in his car and drive north. "Oh we're not going to leave we'll just hunker down here". I said "dude you have two small kids. Don't be an idiot leave now." He said absolutely not. Well the blow off on the story is he stayed and put his family thru shear hell. He deserved to die to be quite frank. But most folks are like that. "I'm a MAN ! I KNOW HOW TO SURVIVE ANYTHING !" BS.
Whether its natural disasters or man made, the most important implements to have are a car and a credit card. Plus what you carry in your head.
If the big shaker happens in California and you try to stay while everything around you is destroyed, then shame on you. If there is a riot brewing and you decicde to stay and fight the zombies, then shame on you. This is related to the whole "fight avoidance" discussion. I don't recall in the last full century any instance in the continental US that required LOTS OF AMMO. Can you name one instance where there was some sort of sustained firefight by civilians involving hundreds or thousands of rounds of ammo? Zero. I lived thru multiple riots in NYC. Including the burning down of the South Bronx. THE BURNING DOWN OF THE SOUTH BRONX ! It did not require anything more than a subway fare to move a couple of miles away to a relatives house. END OF STORY. People freeze to death in storms because they insist on staying in the house with no heat. They die like flys when there are floods cause they insist on toughing it out. BS. Especially if you have a family. A wife and kids, you should be arrested for endangering them.
Have a go bag, stock up on supplies sure. But to envision trying to live thru something which is clearly localized in geography and NOT leaving the area is just lunacy. That should be the prime directive of any survival situation. How do I leave, before hopefully, but in any case how do I leave after the emergency has triggered the survival instincts.
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The best site is Survivalblog.com It is generally thought that you should keep 1 years supply of food, ways to get or keep water, heat and transport. Depending on where you live these things may change. A couple of deep cycle 12 volt rechargeable batteries along with a power inverter will run your essentials. A wood stove will give heat and a place to cook. A solar panel or 2 will keep your batteries charged.
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Survivalblog.com +100
selter - water - fire... are my main three. Pathfinder has a corbon copy of my list. What's been posted so far is something we all should do!!
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http://tennesseepreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/
on the right side there is a list of state preppers, most are like minded people, very good info on prepardness.
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http://tennesseepreppersnetwork.blogspot.com/
on the right side there is a list of state preppers, most are like minded people, very good info on prepardness.
Thanks 2HOW. I can't get enough of this stuff.
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One thing that I haven't seen in this discussion or another one we had earlier (it may have been said and I missed it) it
PRIVACY!!!
Prepare for yourself and your loved ones. Pick a number of people and a number of days. Pick a level of preparedness - 72 hours 100% of hunkered down; another week of 100% possibly on the move; a month at 75% considering nomadic lifestyle. Each level of supplies has responsiblities. 100% of needs means a lot to store and carry; 75% is still a lot but more managable, and it requires that you be able to both ration and scrounge; 50% keeps moving toward more mobile and more reliant on other skills.
Next is to keep you mouth shut. After you have gone through the above exercise and completed it it can be rendered worthless if you are overrun by the neighbor and their three kids. This is also where civil unrest and riots start. Don't inform any more people than you are willing to support or share with.
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Actually had found this list a couple months ago. I thought before I read it that I was fairly prepared, but this just showed me how wrong I was.
Top 100 Items to Disappear First During a National Emergency
1. Generators (Good ones cost dearly. Gas storage, risky. Noisy...target of thieves; maintenance etc.)
2. Water Filters/Purifiers
3. Portable Toilets
4. Seasoned Firewood. Wood takes about 6 - 12 months to become dried, for home uses.
5. Lamp Oil, Wicks, Lamps (First Choice: Buy CLEAR oil. If scarce, stockpile ANY!)
6. Coleman Fuel. Impossible to stockpile too much.
7. Guns, Ammunition, Pepper Spray, Knives, Clubs, Bats & Slingshots.
8. Hand-can openers, & hand egg beaters, whisks.
9. Honey/Syrups/white, brown sugar
10. Rice - Beans - Wheat
11. Vegetable Oil (for cooking) Without it food burns/must be boiled etc.,)
12. Charcoal, Lighter Fluid (Will become scarce suddenly)
13. Water Containers (Urgent Item to obtain.) Any size. Small: HARD CLEAR PLASTIC ONLY - note - food grade if for drinking.
16. Propane Cylinders (Urgent: Definite shortages will occur.)
17. Survival Guide Book.
18. Mantles: Aladdin, Coleman, etc. (Without this item, longer-term lighting is difficult.)
19. Baby Supplies: Diapers/formula. ointments/aspirin, etc.
20. Washboards, Mop Bucket w/wringer (for Laundry)
21. Cookstoves (Propane, Coleman & Kerosene)
22. Vitamins
23. Propane Cylinder Handle-Holder (Urgent: Small canister use is dangerous without this item)
24. Feminine Hygiene/Haircare/Skin products.
25. Thermal underwear (Tops & Bottoms)
26. Bow saws, axes and hatchets, Wedges (also, honing oil)
27. Aluminum Foil Reg. & Heavy Duty (Great Cooking and Barter Item)
28. Gasoline Containers (Plastic & Metal)
29. Garbage Bags (Impossible To Have Too Many).
30. Toilet Paper, Kleenex, Paper Towels
31. Milk - Powdered & Condensed (Shake Liquid every 3 to 4 months)
32. Garden Seeds (Non-Hybrid) (A MUST)
33. Clothes pins/line/hangers (A MUST)
34. Coleman's Pump Repair Kit
35. Tuna Fish (in oil)
36. Fire Extinguishers (or..large box of Baking Soda in every room)
37. First aid kits
38. Batteries (all sizes...buy furthest-out for Expiration Dates)
39. Garlic, spices & vinegar, baking supplies
40. Big Dogs (and plenty of dog food)
41. Flour, yeast & salt
42. Matches. {"Strike Anywhere" preferred.) Boxed, wooden matches will go first
43. Writing paper/pads/pencils, solar calculators
44. Insulated ice chests (good for keeping items from freezing in Wintertime.)
45. Workboots, belts, Levis & durable shirts
46. Flashlights/LIGHTSTICKS & torches, "No. 76 Dietz" Lanterns
47. Journals, Diaries & Scrapbooks (jot down ideas, feelings, experience; Historic Times)
48. Garbage cans Plastic (great for storage, water, transporting - if with wheels)
49. Men's Hygiene: Shampoo, Toothbrush/paste, Mouthwash/floss, nail clippers, etc
50. Cast iron cookware (sturdy, efficient)
51. Fishing supplies/tools
52. Mosquito coils/repellent, sprays/creams
53. Duct Tape
54. Tarps/stakes/twine/nails/rope/spikes
55. Candles
56. Laundry Detergent (liquid)
57. Backpacks, Duffel Bags
58. Garden tools & supplies
59. Scissors, fabrics & sewing supplies
60. Canned Fruits, Veggies, Soups, stews, etc.
61. Bleach (plain, NOT scented: 4 to 6% sodium hypochlorite)
62. Canning supplies, (Jars/lids/wax)
63. Knives & Sharpening tools: files, stones, steel
64. Bicycles...Tires/tubes/pumps/chains, etc
65. Sleeping Bags & blankets/pillows/mats
66. Carbon Monoxide Alarm (battery powered)
67. Board Games, Cards, Dice
68. d-con Rat poison, MOUSE PRUFE II, Roach Killer
69. Mousetraps, Ant traps & cockroach magnets
70. Paper plates/cups/utensils (stock up, folks)
71. Baby wipes, oils, waterless & Antibacterial soap (saves a lot of water)
72. Rain gear, rubberized boots, etc.
73. Shaving supplies (razors & creams, talc, after shave)
74. Hand pumps & siphons (for water and for fuels)
75. Soysauce, vinegar, bullions/gravy/soupbase
76. Reading glasses
77. Chocolate/Cocoa/Tang/Punch (water enhancers)
78. "Survival-in-a-Can"
79. Woolen clothing, scarves/ear-muffs/mittens
80. Boy Scout Handbook, / also Leaders Catalog
81. Roll-on Window Insulation Kit (MANCO)
82. Graham crackers, saltines, pretzels, Trail mix/Jerky
83. Popcorn, Peanut Butter, Nuts
84. Socks, Underwear, T-shirts, etc. (extras)
85. Lumber (all types)
86. Wagons & carts (for transport to and from)
87. Cots & Inflatable mattress's
88. Gloves: Work/warming/gardening, etc.
89. Lantern Hangers
90. Screen Patches, glue, nails, screws,, nuts & bolts
91. Teas
92. Coffee
93. Cigarettes
94. Wine/Liquors (for bribes, medicinal, etc,)
95. Paraffin wax
96. Glue, nails, nuts, bolts, screws, etc.
97. Chewing gum/candies
98. Atomizers (for cooling/bathing)
99. Hats & cotton neckerchiefs
100. Livestock
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I'm gonna move in with BHO's illegal immigrant Auntie in Boston. She's sure to have everthing she needs including my tax dollars. >:(
Actually, if the SHTF, I'm pretty much done for...I do have a pot to piss in and not much more... :(
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well maybe the pot (w/o the piss) will be something you can trade for food.. ;D
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Living in Florida, I have a few of the basics ready at all times.
For those who are on a budget, here's a link how how to buy the basics in 8 weeks. (This is the standard Florida Gov. hurricane prep list.)
http://www.browardredcross.org/docs/hurricane_check_list.pdf (http://www.browardredcross.org/docs/hurricane_check_list.pdf)
As you can see its a PDF so you can print it out if you like.
Of course I'd adjust it for where you live.
As for water, dont forget you can strain it through a t-shirt into a collander of charcole that drains into a pot that you can add bleach to or boil.
Also, if you're in a small town area and the power does go out while it's warm and you don't expect to get it back for a few days, expect to see a huge bar-b-que of all the meat in the fridge! This is a great way to build up block solidarity and a sense of community. (Unfortunately, this won't work as well in the large inner-city areas.)
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Holy Shit, Zombies (or mushroom clouds, aliens {the green kind}, whatever).
::)
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I have a box called the FANBOX, because when it hits the fan, this is the box I want.
Of course you realize that we are all sounding like...Mormons now! Maybe we should have elected Romney. ;)
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I have a box called the FANBOX, because when it hits the fan, this is the box I want.
Of course you realize that we are all sounding like...Mormons now! Maybe we should have elected Romney. ;)
Well, some of us are Mormons. I've even heard the 1911 referred to as the "Mormon Gun", since John Moses Browning was one.
Preparedness is for everyone and if the SHTF, I'll be helping out my neighbors who are all of different religions.
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What I have not seen mentioned yet in this thread is CASH.
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From Thanos:
Of course you realize that we are all sounding like...Mormons now! Maybe we should have elected Romney. Wink
+1 and +1 on the CASH and AMMO
If the SHTF, someone posted previously, the Amish and Quakers will be laughing....
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What I have not seen mentioned yet in this thread is CASH.
Got cash. Cash should be small bills. Most won't be able to make change.
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"beans, bullets and gasoline!"
Hey.... that would make a great Bluebone song!
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Good to know a pig farmer, remember the Mad Max Movies? Pig Sh** run through a "still" gives you fuel, albeit getting rid of all the Kalifornia emission controls, the equip. will run just fine like leaded gas...
Hey.... that would make a great Bluebone song!
;D
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Any kind of manure can be used to generate Methane, which will power natural gas appliances. Most of central Asia is powered that way.
See the "Backwoodsman" magazine Sept/Oct 08
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Got cash. Cash should be small bills. Most won't be able to make change.
Cash? Cash will be worthless, try cigarettes and coffee, those will be worth their weight in gold! If you ARE mormon, you are in an even better position, it is like being a drug dealer that doesn't do your product.
Try waking up without your cup-o-joe!
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I've been listening to
thesurvivalpodcast.com
Lots of good information which makes one think about plausible events and preparations. Varied content, from growing your own food to economic issues to 'beans & bullets.'
I'm slowly adding preparations as I can--food/water, defense, bug-out/bug-in, etc.
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Beginning in July, you can watch TBD: SURVIVAL! to find the answers to some of these questions. We plan to use the same format that we've pioneered in THE BEST DEFENSE...all the episodes of the series will be, in effect, a course in basic preparedness and an advanced course in firearms.
BTW, up here in the Secret Hidden Bunker we assume that we'll be snowed in at least a week each winter —and winter is cold up High — often without power, sometimes without water, whatever. The worst situation I had was when I had to snowshoe into town prepared to barter for beer, the only thing we ran out of. Thank heavens the liquor store was still taking cash!
Michael B
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Wow, there are alot of folks that have alot of stuff & that's good. I want to pass on one thing that I didn't see on peoples posts, If they did I missed it. After responding to a few catastrophic national diseasters as an emergency responder, the one thing that folks didn't have that they really needed was a radio, an AM/FM RADIO. Folks had no idea of what was happening, where they needed to go for med. help, which way they needed to go to get out of dodge, etc. What was happening was a failure to communicate! Get a crank/solar powered one, they seem to be (in my opinion) much better than a battery operated one due to you do not have to worry about batteries at all. Check on the web - I bought mine for around $25.
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enough guns and ammo to arm my block ;D
a comm'l 72 hour kit, 2 extra cases of water, generator, 2 weeks worth of canned food, camping gear, and etc.
Something else to think about, if you know its coming, if you turn off your water, you will have atleast 40 gal of water in your water heater+ pipes ( 30 gal tank+ pipes) that is safe and clean. Even if all you do is turn off the water too your water heater you will have atleast 30 gal of water.
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Beginning in July, you can watch TBD: SURVIVAL! to find the answers to some of these questions. We plan to use the same format that we've pioneered in THE BEST DEFENSE...all the episodes of the series will be, in effect, a course in basic preparedness and an advanced course in firearms.
BTW, up here in the Secret Hidden Bunker we assume that we'll be snowed in at least a week each winter —and winter is cold up High — often without power, sometimes without water, whatever. The worst situation I had was when I had to snowshoe into town prepared to barter for beer, the only thing we ran out of. Thank heavens the liquor store was still taking cash!
Michael B
You of all people should know to stock up on necessities ;D
enough guns and ammo to arm my block ;D
a comm'l 72 hour kit, 2 extra cases of water, generator, 2 weeks worth of canned food, camping gear, and etc.
Something else to think about, if you know its coming, if you turn off your water, you will have atleast 40 gal of water in your water heater+ pipes ( 30 gal tank+ pipes) that is safe and clean. Even if all you do is turn off the water too your water heater you will have atleast 30 gal of water.
If you have your own well you should get a hand pump for it. Something like an old Pitcher pump.
REMEMBER TO KEEP A GALLON OR SO FOR PRIMING ;D
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Frosty: I agree that you should have a radio. Communication is essential. I have three little hand held ones, so I forgot to mention them. One even has a hand crank and a solar panel on the handle for battery free charging.
M. Bane: I love the idea of TBD:Survival! Will you or Outdoors Channel be selling it on DVD? BTW, do you keep an extra stash of beer for emergency use in your stores now?