The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Defense and Tactics => Topic started by: long762range on February 10, 2009, 07:28:50 PM
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I hope this does not violate the forums rules. If so please remove it.
http://www.koco.com/video/18682096/index.html
We all talk about self defense using firearms. This shows it.
The guard was trained, prepared, alert.
The felon was armed and threatening those in the pharmacy.
These robberies so often result in the deaths of the innocent it is good to see how one determined defender can turn things around.
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Crime does not pay
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Maybe his buddies will think twice next time ;D
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Maybe his buddies will think twice next time ;D
TAB would say that "the presence of guns have no effect on crime"...... I think the robber would beg to differ...... Opps, looks like I just hijacked this thread. :)
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I'm sure Sarah Brady will have this video posted on her site.
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It sucks to kill someone, I feel bad for the guard.
Don't get me wrong, I hope he emptied the magazine into the punk and the kid's last thoughts were..."Crap! I guess I am not all that tough after all.
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TAB would say that "the presence of guns have no effect on crime"...... I think the robber would beg to differ...... Opps, looks like I just hijacked this thread. :)
did it stop the crime from happening? Nope. No one in that store will ever forget that day.
That guard was lucky. If things had gone badly he could have started a gun battle. Which could have ended up with several people hurt. I don't think you will find a "SD expert" that will say, just draw and start shooting in a robbery. Every c;ass I've ever been in the "experts" have said let them take the money, only draw when you absolutly must to save yourself or some one else from great bodly injury.
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Once again I must voice a disclaimer on TABs use of my quote for his signature. It applied only to his statement on 8 round mags for a 1911 and it was tongue-in-cheek with his previous, 'overloaded' avatar.
Crime stopped,TAB. Effectively and with positive results. ::)
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did it stop the crime from happening?
Yes, no money was stolen and no one except the perpetrator was harmed.
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Yes, no money was stolen, and no one except the perpetrator was harmed.
So there is no crime if nothing is taken? So then if he lived he should not be charged with armed robbery as he did not actually take anything?
Harm is not always about physical damage. psychological harm can be worse then then physical harm. Just look at victims of sexual assualt, generally speaking they are just "beat up" a little bit during the crime, but we all know psychological harm can last a life time from said assualt. Ever had a gun stuck in your face? I have, its not something you forgot.
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So there is no crime if nothing is taken?
Like fatman said, Crime stopped. It was stopped in its tracks as soon as the rounds hit their mark
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So there is no crime if nothing is taken? So then if he lived he should not be charged with armed robbery as he did not actually take anything?
Harm is not always about physical damage. psychological harm can be worse then then physical harm. Just look at victims of sexual assualt, generally speaking they are just "beat up" a little bit during the crime, but we all know psychological harm can last a life time from said assualt. Ever had a gun stuck in your face? I have, its not something you forgot.
There is no more helpless feeling than to be assaulted with no way to defend yourself. If you can stop the assault you empower yourself. I choose to carry a pistol to at least give myself a chance if I am assaulted again. Would I like to harm another? No, but I will not hesitate to use that pistol to stop, if possible, a preditor from doing harm to me or the ones I love again.
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There is no more helpless feeling than to be assaulted with no way to defend yourself. If you can stop the assault you empower yourself. I choose to carry a pistol to at least give myself a chance if I am assaulted again. Would I like to harm another? No, but I will not hesitate to use that pistol to stop, if possible, a preditor from doing harm to me or the ones I love again.
In my case I would not have mattered if I was armed or not. You can't out draw a trigger finger.
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With the amount of pharmacy robberies for prescription drugs in my neck of the woods I am thankful to have a handgun license and able to carry a sidearm while shopping there. There are some crazy and desperate folks out there.
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So there is no crime if nothing is taken? So then if he lived he should not be charged with armed robbery as he did not actually take anything?
Harm is not always about physical damage. psychological harm can be worse then then physical harm. Just look at victims of sexual assualt, generally speaking they are just "beat up" a little bit during the crime, but we all know psychological harm can last a life time from said assualt. Ever had a gun stuck in your face? I have, its not something you forgot.
TAB, Your an either an idiot or a woman who loves to fight over stupid crap.
The crime of Criminal Threatening was committed whether anything was taken or not.
The guard was a retired Police Officer, who had then served as a Sheriffs deputy, I think he knows when he can shoot a scumbag.
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In my case I would not have mattered if I was armed or not. You can't out draw a trigger finger.
In some cases yes you can. This guard showed that. The druggie was not immediately prepared to shoot at the blink of an eye, so there was a fatal lag in his reaction time. He was not a real predator, just one who did not expect a sheepdog to be watching the flock.
A finger on the trigger is not the threat, just like the gun is not the threat, the intent and the willingness to enforce that intent is. The druggie lacked the willingness.
Tom, +10.
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No crime was stopped because the guard shot the subject. However...FURTHER criminal action was stopped decisively.
The act of entering a business or residence armed with intent to commit a crime is, in fact, a crime. If the subject happened to have an accomplice outside scuh as a driver...that is conspiracy. Boom...felony right there.
The subject was armed, demanding money, or drugs, or both. We can see the pharmacist clearly offering him a bottle of pills. The pharmacist, and the woman who I assume was his pharmacy tech, were both cooperating.
I am going to go on the assumption here that the retired officer, since he had his ass in the grass so to speak,reasobably knew the subject was capable of following through on whatever violent threats he may have made. This is a reasonable assumption because a reasonble man would believe that an armed criminal making threats with the ability to carry out that deadly threat, i.e. a presumably loaded pistol, would shoot them.
In this day and age, robberies are far more likely to end in a clerk, business owner, or innocent bystander being shot or killed by the subject, than even 10 years ago. Gangbangers and prospest gangbangers looking to get "jumped" into their gangs are often jumped in by having to commit a violent crime or random murder than ever before. To my reasonable frame of mind...an armed subject is probably going to shoot someone in the commission of his/her crime.
The guard/retired officer had years of training and street savvy in his toolbox. He was equipped to deal with the threat, and he did. Sure, in a rosy, huggy, touchy feely world, he could have talked the subject out of his crime and bought him a latte afterward, and explained it wasn't his fault that he had a crappy childhood, or didn't get enough hugs when he was growing up. But, since it isn't a rosy, huggy, touchy feely world, the guard/retired officer used his tools, experience and training to prevent the further crime of murder, or attempted murder.
The subject CHOSE to rob that store. He CHOSE to threaten innocent lives. He CHOSE to accept whatever consequences of his actions were. In the end, he CHOSE to die. The owner of the store CHOSE not to be a victim, and hired someone to protect him and his employees.
I feel bad for the guard/retired officer for having to take a life. I feel bad for the pharmacist and his tech for having been traumatized by their part in the incident. On the other hand...they are alive, and can heal.
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No crime was stopped because the guard shot the subject. However...FURTHER criminal action was stopped decisively.
The act of entering a business or residence armed with intent to commit a crime is, in fact, a crime. If the subject happened to have an accomplice outside scuh as a driver...that is conspiracy. Boom...felony right there.
The subject was armed, demanding money, or drugs, or both. We can see the pharmacist clearly offering him a bottle of pills. The pharmacist, and the woman who I assume was his pharmacy tech, were both cooperating.
I am going to go on the assumption here that the retired officer, since he had his ass in the grass so to speak,reasobably knew the subject was capable of following through on whatever violent threats he may have made. This is a reasonable assumption because a reasonble man would believe that an armed criminal making threats with the ability to carry out that deadly threat, i.e. a presumably loaded pistol, would shoot them.
In this day and age, robberies are far more likely to end in a clerk, business owner, or innocent bystander being shot or killed by the subject, than even 10 years ago. Gangbangers and prospest gangbangers looking to get "jumped" into their gangs are often jumped in by having to commit a violent crime or random murder than ever before. To my reasonable frame of mind...an armed subject is probably going to shoot someone in the commission of his/her crime.
The guard/retired officer had years of training and street savvy in his toolbox. He was equipped to deal with the threat, and he did. Sure, in a rosy, huggy, touchy feely world, he could have talked the subject out of his crime and bought him a latte afterward, and explained it wasn't his fault that he had a crappy childhood, or didn't get enough hugs when he was growing up. But, since it isn't a rosy, huggy, touchy feely world, the guard/retired officer used his tools, experience and training to prevent the further crime of murder, or attempted murder.
The subject CHOSE to rob that store. He CHOSE to threaten innocent lives. He CHOSE to accept whatever consequences of his actions were. In the end, he CHOSE to die. The owner of the store CHOSE not to be a victim, and hired someone to protect him and his employees.
I feel bad for the guard/retired officer for having to take a life. I feel bad for the pharmacist and his tech for having been traumatized by their part in the incident. On the other hand...they are alive, and can heal.
Comment of the day award!
(http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/604777/2/istockphoto_604777_miniature_trophy_blank.jpg)
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Just kick my soapbox out from under me if I get too preachy.
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Just kick my soapbox out from under me if I get too preachy.
Hell no....we don't mind a soapbox now and again....when the preacher makes good sense.
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Hell no....we don't mind a soapbox now and again....when the preacher makes good sense.
You can borrow mine from time to time if you ask politely.
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Great Job Sheepdog!
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Here is a 2nd one only 30 min away in the same county.
I live between the two.
http://cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/3/31/robbery_suspect_shot_killed_by_pharmacy_employee.html (http://cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/3/31/robbery_suspect_shot_killed_by_pharmacy_employee.html)
Robbery Suspect Shot, Killed By Pharmacy Employee
Wednesday, April 01, 2009 12:02:43 PM
A robbery suspect is dead after being shot by a JR Pharmacy employee.
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Reported By Stephanie Coueignoux
ORANGE COUNTY -- A robbery suspect is dead after being shot by a JR Pharmacy employee.
Orange County Sheriff's deputies were called to the pharmacy on Whisper Lakes Boulevard just before 5:15 p.m. Tuesday.
Officials told News 13 Mario Vukomanovic, 23, entered into the pharmacy and pulled out a gun. That's when the employee pulled out a gun of his own, and shot and killed the Vukomanovic.
News 13 spoke with Kristopher Lleras, the owner of a business two doors down, who said he heard the gunshots, but didn't realize what had happened until authorities pulled up.
"You hear things all things all the time. I didn't piece it together until the cops and everyone else and I was like ‘Oh OK,’" Lleras said.
Officials have not released the identity of the pharmacy worker.
They said the last major incident to occur at the pharmacy was in April 2007.