The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: bigkahuna07 on February 19, 2009, 09:24:27 PM
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lets say you were forced into a situation in that you had to defend yourself from another man with a gun and you didn't want to kill the person where would you want to shoot the person to down him or at least let him know that if he doesn't back off you will put him down? I heard that it isn't practical to try to shoot the gun out his hand and that even if you hit him in an arm or shoulder it may not keep him from shooting back at you so I would like to ask just where should you shoot him to down him without killing him.
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I would aim for the stomach. If that didn't convince him to leave me alone, I'd aim a few inches higher and shoot for the heart/lung area.
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CENTER MASS!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!
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is there a certain area around the stomach or chest you should shoot for because I don't want to kill the person unless I am forced to and have no choice, plus I have always been taught that a gun may be weapon for self defense and is perfectly able to kill but you should only kill as a last resort.
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IMO
if he had a gun / knife and was wanting to KILL me
I would be wanting to be the quicker one. defend my self and family and STOP the threat
Centre Mass Double Tap
you may not get a second chance.
as I heard the saying better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6
this all hypothetical as here we are not alowed to shoot criminals due to Self Defense not being a purpose of use for owning a firearm over here ::)
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BIG,
You shoot to stop the threat. That said, ya ain't Annie Oakly, especially in a VERY tense situation. You aim for center mass (biggest target area) and that's it. You do not 'shoot to kill' AND you do NOT 'shoot to wound', you shoot to 'stop'.
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thanks for the info it is appreciated.
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Try to flee first and only draw your weapon if you have no other options or if you feel as though you or someone else is being threatened with bodily harm. You want to be really careful about pulling a gun.
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Get PROFESSIONAL training in defensive shooting ! Go NOW and buy Mossad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme" and start reading it as soon as you get home.
If the situation is threatening enough for you to shoot, shoot center of mass until he either falls down or stops doing what made you shoot him. If he runs away fine, if he is hurt but lives fine, if he dies tough sh!t, he should not have been threatening you and/or your family.
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BIG,
You shoot to stop the threat. That said, ya ain't Annie Oakly, especially in a VERY tense situation. You aim for center mass (biggest target area) and that's it. You do not 'shoot to kill' AND you do NOT 'shoot to wound', you shoot to 'stop'.
Like Haz said, you should not even place any value on the perpetrators life forces, sucks to be him or her. Hesitation kills, don't give ANY credit to the person who is trying to stop your life force, shoot til they can't shoot back, or stab you, or bludgeon you, or grab you or yours. Your mental attitude should be, " f..k these people, who the hell are they to try to take my life, my belongings, or my family " get mad and focused, it will help if you have to be mean. It is also absolutely true. If you or yours are TRULY in danger, you cannot think about the consequences to you, only the consequences if you don't do what needs to be done.
It might mean aggression, and maybe not, but if it does, do it now and sudden and don't hold back. Fighting for you life or someone else's means exactly that, a fight, where 2nd place is a bad deal.
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Like Haz said, you should not even place any value on the perpetrators life forces, sucks to be him or her. Hesitation kills, don't give ANY credit to the person who is trying to stop your life force, shoot til they can't shoot back, or stab you, or bludgeon you, or grab you or yours. Your mental attitude should be, " f..k these people, who the hell are they to try to take my life, my belongings, or my family " get mad and focused, it will help if you have to be mean. It is also absolutely true. If you or yours are TRULY in danger, you cannot think about the consequences to you, only the consequences if you don't do what needs to be done.
It might mean aggression, and maybe not, but if it does, do it now and sudden and don't hold back. Fighting for you life or someone else's means exactly that, a fight, where 2nd place is a bad deal.
Got a T shirt that reads....
"Second place in a gun fight don't get no free beer!" ;)
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I will look into the book and read it but the problem isn't near as severe as it could of been because the person that has been doing these crimes has been caught and his accomplices with him, by no means does this mean that I shouldn't be ready to defend myself and it doesn't mean that someone else won't cause a problem or that there won't be anymore of them because you see the pirp tried to mug my friend from before but this time he had his colt with him and the pirp this time had a gun but had left it on safety and well after my friend pulled out his gun he warned the pirp to drop the handgun and back up and the pirp dropped the handgun and my friend called the police and got it dealed with.
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lets say you were forced into a situation in that you had to defend yourself from another man with a gun and you didn't want to kill the person where would you want to shoot the person to down him or at least let him know that if he doesn't back off you will put him down? I heard that it isn't practical to try to shoot the gun out his hand and that even if you hit him in an arm or shoulder it may not keep him from shooting back at you so I would like to ask just where should you shoot him to down him without killing him.
If you have a problem enough to draw a firearm, you shoot to stop and that means cetner mass like Haz and the others said. If you have to draw, use the force in your hand to the maximum effect to stop the perp. Not to kill, not to wound, no warning shot, - CENTER MASS to stop the threatening behavior. Now go read Mas' book.
Thus endeth the lesson for this day.
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Carrying a gun for defense is serious business. You 'shoot to stop' as others have said, but if you are not mentally prepared for the 'stop' part of the equation to mean 'dead', then you don't need to carry a gun.
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There is only non-lethal and lethal force. There is no scenario that has a 'kinda-sorta-try-to-shoot-to-wound-because-something-in-between-applies-here' threshold. That's Hollywood bunk, and the last I heard the actors gets multiple takes in the movies and everyone goes home in one piece at the end of the day. IRL you get one take, and it's for keeps.
You are either in fear for your life/facing grievous bodily harm or you are not. Shooting to wound in life threatening situations does only one thing - gives the threat another go at killing you.
Center mass first, then control center if you get no results from center mass - until the threat stops being a threat.
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I agree with the rest of the gang that center mass should be your target, period. You are not trying to kill, wound, or maim your attacker...you are trying to stop your attacker. Aside from what everyone else has stated about stopping your attacker...there are also the legal ramifications involved with trying to wound your attacker.
In my state, you can only shoot an attacker if you are in "immenant danger of death or serious bodily injury". If you are trying to wound an attacker...the prosecutor will most likely portray that you were not in immenant danger and should not have shot him in the first place. That's when the goat-rodeo begins, and they will make you out to be the bad guy.
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I've read that most shots go high when you're stressed out. If you try for the stomach/diaphragm area, right at the breastbone you may hit the liver or spleen and cause massive bleeding. If your shots go high you may hit the heart and will probably hit a lung. If you pull your shots low which doesn't sound very likely, you could just hit intsestines which wouldn't be good for you or the BG, or you may hit a kidney. Depending on where the bullets hit, and I'm assuming there will be more than one bullet, the person could survive and sue you. You're better off killing them IMO.
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If an injury has to be done to a man it should be so severe that his vengeance need not be feared.
Niccolo Machiavelli (1469 - 1527)
Keyword is "If". In a SD home scenario, the intent of the BG is not known, but he's in YOUR house. Assume the worst and defend yourself and family.
As others have posted, center-mass may be all you see. Adrenalin, stress, fear, won't provide you the "chance" to think about anything else but targeting the largest area on a body and STOPPING the threat.
The vengeance is the civil suit to follow a shooting to pay for the BG's medical bills. It's been tried before.
"Don't hit at all if it can be avoided, but never hit softly."
Theodore Roosevelt