The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Handguns => Topic started by: madarcher427 on February 24, 2009, 10:55:23 AM
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how do you compare these calibers to the others ?
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Harder to find and more expensive.
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.357 Sig is fast and a flat shooter, used by Texas DPS, good for the long shots, 50 yards. And the .45 GAP is just plain blasphemous, its the devil's .45. But I don't think you could go wrong with the .357 versus a 9mm, but like Tom said more expensive.
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.45 GAP is the one Glock has had "Kaboom" problems with.
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so the 45 gap is out for sure
as far as the 357 sig its prices look comparebility to the rest on midway usa .
it a 40 necked down to a 9mm
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.45 GAP is the one Glock has had "Kaboom" problems with.
And that's why I didn't understand why (other than Glock is based in Ga, and $$$$$ reasons) our state department of public safety went with a complete change over to .45 GAP.
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You'd be surprised how they do these caliber selections for LE. They'll talk about the benefits of the caliber,'well, ah, your .45 GAP eliminate many of the problem associated with ACP such as excessive recoil and...' In reality it comes down to they got a really good deal on the .45 GAP weapons, because Glock wants that customer base to support the round and all the royalties that probably go with it's production.
Same thing here in Texas the .357 was new and Sig wanted a supporter. So the DPS got those pistol for nearly free. And again when the DAK trigger was introduced.
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I have a .357 SIG in a SIG P239. It is a great cartridge. The Secret Service and the Federal Air Marshalls use the caliber as well as the Texas Rangers. I have a .40 barrel for the P239, but I keep the .357 SIG in place. I like the .357 Magnum a lot. The .357 SIG does the same job in an auto pistol. I think the .357 SIG recoils less in my pistol than the .40, AND in my pistol it is much more accurate.
The down side is that the .357 SIG is more expensive, but not a lot more. So I reload with abandon -- its fun. I get my empties for essentially no cost. That makes it economical to shoot. BTW I do not load .40 because I don't shoot it much.
I think the .45 GAP is an answer to a question no one asked. I would stick with the tried and true .45 ACP. The .45 GAP seems to me to be moribund already based on my range pickups. I doubt it will last very long.
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45 gap was DOA. the 357 sig, will be around for awhile.
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I got your .357 semi auto right here ;
http://www.gunsamerica.com/Search/Family/10/1/1911-Pistols.htm
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Harder to find and more expensive.
Compared to the .45 ACP, the .45 GAP can be up to -$3 cheaper per box of 50 in bulk.
For example, Federal 230 grains FMJ:
GAP: $199- 500 rounds or $350 - 1000 Rounds
ACP: $229- 500 rounds or $399 - 1,000 rounds
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.45 GAP is the one Glock has had "Kaboom" problems with.
I call BS. Where did you get this information from?
Better read here:
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
or
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html
It was not the 45 GAP but the other calibers.
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Compared to the .45 ACP, the .45 GAP can be up to -$3 cheaper per box of 50 in bulk.
For example, Federal 230 grains FMJ:
GAP: $199- 500 rounds or $350 - 1000 Rounds
ACP: $229- 500 rounds or $399 - 1,000 rounds
That's because no one is buying 45GAP pistols. When the demand is low, so is the price.
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I think the .45 GAP is an answer to a question no one asked. I would stick with the tried and true .45 ACP.
The reason you would want the 45 GAP is when you want a 45 bullet at 45 ACP ballistics but you have average-sized hand so you do not fit the G21-sized grip and prefer the G17- or G22-sized grip.
If you have a large hand and the G21 fits your hand just fine then I agree with you, stick with the G21 and the tried and true 45 ACP. But if the G21 does not fit you and you still want a 45 then the 45 GAP is the answer to your question. Otherwise, your choice would be to go down to a 40 or 9mm.
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The reason you would want the 45 GAP is when you want a 45 bullet at 45 ACP ballistics but you have average-sized hand so you do not fit the G21-sized grip and prefer the G17- or G22-sized grip.
If you have a large hand and the G21 fits your hand just fine then I agree with you, stick with the G21 and the tried and true 45 ACP. But if the G21 does not fit you and you still want a 45 then the 45 GAP is the answer to your question. Otherwise, your choice would be to go down to a 40 or 9mm.
IMO, if the G21 doesn't fit your hand, then try the G21SF version. If that doesn't work, the go to a single stack like a 1911, Sig 220, or Ruger P345. Single stacks generally don't cause Ergo issues for most, and only reduce capacity to a necessary amount of rounds, rather than an ideal amount of rounds. The .45 GAP doesn't really offer you any more rounds to justify it over the standard .45 ACP. On top of that, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist if you're willing to trade two rounds for an easy-to-find and proven caliber.
I've had a .357 Sig gun before. I wish that I just changed the barrel to .40, but I traded it for a .45 ACP. But at the end of the day, I'm a 9 and .45 Auto guy, and don't really see the point of the .357 Sig/.40 S&W.
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IMO, if the G21 doesn't fit your hand, then try the G21SF version. If that doesn't work, the go to a single stack like a 1911, Sig 220, or Ruger P345. Single stacks generally don't cause Ergo issues for most, and only reduce capacity to a necessary amount of rounds, rather than an ideal amount of rounds.
If that works for the user then by all means, go that way. Personally, I like the feel of the 1911 but cannot stand the feel of the P220. That is why we have more than one gun type and more than one caliber on the market.
The .45 GAP doesn't really offer you any more rounds to justify it over the standard .45 ACP.
The reason someone would want a 45 GAP over the 45 ACP is because the 45 GAP is shorter than the 45 ACP so the grip can be shorter front to back and a shorter trigger pull, even smaller than the G21SF, and as small as the G17 in 9mm. Both bullets are .45 caliber so there is no gain in capacity that way. That is the wrong way to take advantage of the 45 GAP shorter length.
On top of that, it's a solution to a problem that doesn't exist if you're willing to trade two rounds for an easy-to-find and proven caliber.
True on IF you are willing to trade two rounds for an easy-to-find and proven caliber but what IF you are not willing to trade? What if you really want to stick with the 45 ACP but the grip is too large and the trigger pull is too long? Even with the Glock short frames? Then what? That is where the 45 GAP comes in. It fills that niche of small grip and 45 caliber. Outside of that niche, go 9, go 40, go 45 ACP, ...
Is the 45 GAP the answer to all the 45 caliber problems? No, hardly. It fills the niche of average hand and wanting a 45 caliber gun in the Glock or polymer platform. Yes the 1911 will fit the hand great but it too has its downside.
I've had a .357 Sig gun before. I wish that I just changed the barrel to .40, but I traded it for a .45 ACP. But at the end of the day, I'm a 9 and .45 Auto guy, and don't really see the point of the .357 Sig/.40 S&W.
I respect your personal preference of guns and calibers but I am willing to bet that there are a few on this board that are going to disagree with you (and me) for that matter. ;)
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I have a Glock 37 in 45GAP and a Glock 39 in 45 GAP...I used to have a Glock 38 in 45GAP until I gave/permanently loaned it to a friend who needed a pistol because he had fallen on hard times and had to sell off his whole gun collection.
I really like the 45GAP...let me tell you why.
The round is every bit as accurate as the 45ACP. I have shot the GAP-Glock models next to their ACP-Glock stable mates, and neither has an edge over the other.
Ballistically, it is every bit as effective as the 45ACP. If you don't believe this....volunteer to take a COM round from both ACP and GAP and tell us which one killed you the least. :P
The GAP fits into the standard 9mm/40 frame of the Glock and XD pistols in which it has been chambered. If the G21 frame is too big for your hands, you have another 45 option that will allow you to still carry a big thumper and use it effectively in a package that you can manage.
It IS a solution to a problem SOME people have.
That being said....Ford, Chevy, GMC, or Dodge trucks....who is to say which is better? I like my Chevy. My best friend likes his Ford. Personal preference at work here.
In the end....the GAP is still a round in a caliber that begins with "4".
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No preference. I just don't like .45GAP because it means more time sorting range pick-ups.
The one place I do like .45GAP is in my S&W 625. Being shorter, the GAP rounds tend to tilt less in the
moon clips making them a little easier and faster to load.
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.45 GAP is the one Glock has had "Kaboom" problems with.
I think your needing to back up that blanket statement - or are you just a GLOCK hater because your friends tell you to..... ?
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I call BS. Where did you get this information from?
Better read here:
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
or
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb2.html
It was not the 45 GAP but the other calibers.
Yes, it seems to have been MOSTLY .40's, otherwise call all you want, then learn what you are talking about.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,1643.0.html
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/GLOCK_-_ka-BOOM_or_kB_Controversy/id/5070786
http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
http://forum.pafoa.org/pistols-41/899-glock-40-kaboom-video.html
http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-86558.html
I think your needing to back up that blanket statement - or are you just a GLOCK hater because your friends tell you to..... ?
You should know better than to make a foolish statement like that.
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Re: rate these handguns
« Reply #1 on: 23 February 2009, 13:24:13 »
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I'd put the Glock at #1.
But that is not relevant as all the guns on your list have VERY good reputations.
The only thing to choose between them is which one feels better in your hand, then which one do you shoot the best.
Don't go by what the sales man tells you, he's just trying to sell a gun.
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Re: Need advice
« Reply #2 on: 23 February 2009, 13:00:50 »
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Bersa seems to have a good reputation. Used Glock ?
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Re: handguns ? glock s&a XD &xdm
« Reply #2 on: 21 February 2009, 22:27:55 »
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For home and range either Glock or XD full size are good choices. For home you gain nothing with the compact XDm.
Glocks have been around for 20 or 30 years and the only REAL complaints I've ever heard about them that were valid were
1) The ONLY safety is to keep your finger OFF the trigger
2) some people find the grip uncomfortable
Best advice is find a range or a friend who will let you try both then decide.
I would go with 9MM, you can get the ammo anywhere, it's less expensive than .45 and you can get more rounds in the Mag. Don't believe the "stopping power" myth. A .45 is no better at STOPPING an attacker than a 9MM it just makes a bigger hole. If you want a pistol that gives one shot STOP get a S&W.500. People have been known to keep coming after being hit with one or more .50 BMG, that's where the extra rounds in the 9MM come in.
Then get professional training in SD
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I am very happy with my carry Glock being chambered in....
9mm
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I respect your personal preference of guns and calibers but I am willing to bet that there are a few on this board that are going to disagree with you (and me) for that matter. ;)
I know that's the case, and it's the best part of the forum. A lock-step forum sounds like something the Anti's use. ;)