Here is the link to watch the movie "America: Freedom to Fascism"
We are not required by law to pay income taxes!! I am watching this and just can't believe I have been so blind. I am not going to assume that everything in this is true, but I will be looking into this. If the info is correct, I will not be filing or paying any more Fed income tax. I encourage everyone to do the research and make the decision wheather you are going to continue giving the Fed. Gov't your hard earned money or are you going to be free?
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 01, 2009, 04:19:44 PM
Here is the link to watch the movie "America: Freedom to Fascism"
We are not required by law to pay income taxes!! I am watching this and just can't believe I have been so blind. I am not going to assume that everything in this is true, but I will be looking into this. If the info is correct, I will not be filing or paying any more Fed income tax. I encourage everyone to do the research and make the decision wheather you are going to continue giving the Fed. Gov't your hard earned money or are you going to be free?
Bullsh!t, pay or go to jail. Ask Mr and Mrs. Brown here in NH. http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-federal-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-united-states/amendments-to-the-constitution.html#c7742 There are many people in prison who believed this crap. The only 2 ways you will get out of paying income tax is 1) have darn little provable income, or 2) get the Constitution and law changed.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: ericire12 on March 01, 2009, 04:29:06 PM
3) death
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: metamurph on March 01, 2009, 04:46:21 PM
yeah, I think there are arguments about is it constitutional even with the amendments but this is not an advisable strategy in life.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: Rastus on March 01, 2009, 04:56:29 PM
But there have been, recently, successful challenges. I'm not advocating do not pay, just pointing out the following:
A lawyer who was acquitted by a federal court trial jury of Internal Revenue Service accusations he failed to filed income tax returns for two years now is suing several IRS agents over their alleged improper disclosure of his personal information in the case.
A spokeswoman in the office of lawyer Tom Cryer told WND the case was assembled and filed by Cryer between Christmas Day and the end of 2007 and is expected to be placed on the docket in the U.S. District Court for the Western District of Louisiana.
Last summer in federal court a jury voted 12-0 to find Cryer, of Shreveport, not guilty of the IRS allegations. He had been indicted on 2006 on government claims he failed to pay $73,000 to the IRS in 2000 and 2001.
His successful defense was based on a challenge to the IRS to prove a constitutional foundation for the nation's income tax.
Now his claim against the government's agents, according to a report in the Shreveport Times, explains four IRS criminal investigation division workers tried to destroy his reputation during the course of their investigation in the case.
The lawsuit alleges IRS agents Jimmy H. Sandefur, Darrin A. Heusel and Judge Armand, and a trainee, Patrick Potter "entered into a smear and fear campaign to destroy Plaintiff's good reputation and law practice."
Cryer alleges the federal workers repeatedly violated federal laws that restrict the disclosure of tax information, release of information about an investigation and publicizing information about a grand jury investigation.
The report said Cryer's lawsuit alleges the agents continually raised those issues in telephone calls, during personal visits and in letters exchanged with Cryer's clients during their investigation.
The action seeks $1,000 in damages for each incident in which a federal agent compromised Cryer's confidential information.
Cryer also has submitted a request to the U.S. attorney's office, seeking an investigation of the agents, but neither the federal prosecutor nor the IRS could be reached for comment on the cases, the report said.
"I think now people are beginning to realize that this has got to be the largest fraud, backed up by intimidation and extortion and by the sheer force of taking peoples' property and hard-earned money without any lawful authorization whatsoever," Cryer said after his acquittal.
He said he is dedicated to the truth, and has launched a new Truth Attack website that is intended to build on his victory, and create a coalition of resources to defeat – ultimately – the income tax in the United States.
Cryer told WND the issue is not that complicated. Essentially, he argued that income is not necessarily any money that comes to a person, but rather categories such as profit and interest.
He said the free exchange of labor for compensation has been upheld as a right by the Supreme Court, but that doesn't necessarily make the compensation income.
"The Founding Fathers intentionally restricted the taxing powers of the new federal government as a measure of restraint on its size. By exceeding that limited taxing authority the federal government has been able to obtain resources beyond its intended reach, and that money has enabled the federal government to exceed its authority," he said.
For example, he said, the Constitution does not empower the federal government to regulate education, or employment, and agriculture, yet it does so.
"There are three points that are important," he said at the time. "There's no law making the average working man liable [for income taxes], there's no law or regulation that allows the IRS to contend that earnings are 100 percent profit received in exchange for nothing, and the right to earn a living through any lawful occupation is a constitutionally protected fundamental right, and it is exempt from taxation."
Spokesman Robert Marvin in Washington's IRS office then told WND the Internal Revenue Code provides for taxation on salaries or wages, but when pressed for a specific citation, or constitutional provision, he said, "I can't comment."
Cryer's encounter with tax law began more than a decade ago when a friend told him the income tax was sham. Cryer started researching, hoping to keep his friend out of trouble. But his conclusions, after years of research, were exactly what his friend told him.
His acquittal, he said, was a precedent because it means "people can see and recognize the truth."
He said multiple Supreme Court opinions have affirmed an individual's ownership of his or her own labor, and "exercising your fundamental rights" is not taxable. "It is definitely a trade. What most people receive in the form of wages, salaries or in my case fees that they personally earned for their labor is not received in exchange for nothing."
He said there might be a profit that should be taxable, but there might not.
"The IRS lets Wal-Mart sell a trillion dollars worth of goods, but they can back out their cost of goods [before being taxed,]" he said. "The IRS considers, in the case of a Wal-Mart wage earner, 100 percent of what he takes in is profit."
"But he's using his life, energy and work lifespan, and depleting it as he goes," Cryer told WND. "[Working] is a God-given fundamental right that is protected under the Constitution and can't be taxed any more than exercising freedom of speech."
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: bryand71 on March 01, 2009, 04:57:29 PM
Bullsh!t, pay or go to jail. Ask Mr and Mrs. Brown here in NH. http://www.law.emory.edu/law-library/research/ready-reference/us-federal-law-and-documents/historical-documents-constitution-of-the-united-states/amendments-to-the-constitution.html#c7742 There are many people in prison who believed this crap. The only 2 ways you will get out of paying income tax is 1) have darn little provable income, or 2) get the Constitution and law changed.
I said I was going to look into it, I haven't finished watching the movie. I did find in the Constitution the section laid out about taxes. Section 9: Clause 4: No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken. (See Note 7) Note 7: This Clause has been affected by amendment XVI.
Now, in the movie they reference several Supreme Court cases reguarding this. I need to look them up and see what they say. I posted this for your information, because God knows how the Government looks out for our best interests. If you find something to back up your claim, please post the source so I can read it and respond. If you are correct I will aknowledge it.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: bryand71 on March 01, 2009, 04:58:47 PM
Rastus, Thanks for posting that, I thought I had read something about that here on this forum, I just couldn't remember which post had it.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: Rastus on March 01, 2009, 04:59:30 PM
Think of all the tax accountants that would be out of a job. Maybe could do something useful, like maintain my lawn or take out my trash.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: bryand71 on March 01, 2009, 05:05:26 PM
Think of all the tax accountants that would be out of a job. Maybe could do something useful, like maintain my lawn or take out my trash.
How about helping everyone invest their money instead of trying to get it back from the Gov't. In the case of all the IRS workers who would be out of work if it were to ever be shut down, they could be transferred to the U.S. Border Patrol, I bet they could find and round up all the illegals then! ;D
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: alfsauve on March 01, 2009, 05:23:56 PM
I do believe that you must file some form of tax statement on your earnings in the year that you die.
The old saw "nothing is certain except death AND taxes." AND not OR
What are they gonna do if ya dont!?!?!?!
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: fightingquaker13 on March 01, 2009, 06:56:56 PM
What are they gonna do if ya dont!?!?!?!
Take it out your estate, plus penalties, fines and interest. Also note, that in cases of fraud, they can take your house. If your spouse and children knew, then they are on the hook criminally as well. When it comes to scary effective law enforcement in the US, the IRS and the Postal Inspectors have them all beat hands down. As much as they could be better used catching terrorists it is what it is. As far as the taxes are unconstitutional bit, ask Sammuel L. Jackson, who is doing three to five in club fed after relieing on a video/seminar like the one you mentioned. I think Wednesday is for visitors. If you are thinking of trying this DON'T! The sixteenh ammendment vitiated the "no head taxes" clause. Hell, Lincoln got away with them in the Civil War, even without the ammendment, under the War Powers Doctrine. The bottom line is, if you try this, you will lose, and lose hard. I may be a Libertarian, but I also teach poli-sci and con law for a living. Just don't go there. fightingquaker13
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: Pathfinder on March 01, 2009, 07:48:18 PM
Take it out your estate, plus penalties, fines and interest. Also note, that in cases of fraud, they can take your house. If your spouse and children knew, then they are on the hook criminally as well. When it comes to scary effective law enforcement in the US, the IRS and the Postal Inspectors have them all beat hands down. As much as they could be better used catching terrorists it is what it is. As far as the taxes are unconstitutional bit, ask Sammuel L. Jackson, who is doing three to five in club fed after relieing on a video/seminar like the one you mentioned. I think Wednesday is for visitors. If you are thinking of trying this DON'T! The sixteenh ammendment vitiated the "no head taxes" clause. Hell, Lincoln got away with them in the Civil War, even without the ammendment, under the War Powers Doctrine. The bottom line is, if you try this, you will lose, and lose hard. I may be a Libertarian, but I also teach poli-sci and con law for a living. Just don't go there. fightingquaker13
I think you mean Wesley Snipes. But, point well taken.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 01, 2009, 07:52:58 PM
I think you mean Wesley Snipes. But, point well taken.
Oops! Thats embarrasing on so many levels. I stand corrected, and apologize to Mr. Jackson. Thanks Pathfinder fightingquaker13
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 01, 2009, 08:06:36 PM
They got Willie Nelson as well.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: runstowin on March 01, 2009, 08:24:24 PM
This is certainly a juicy topic. There is no law that says anyone is required to pay an income tax, there is also no law requiring anyone to pay for a mortgage yet, there are millions of people required to pay for mortgages nonetheless. The short story is that almost every person in this country who works and gets paid for it has voluntarily identified themselves as taxpayers, taxpayers have volunteered to obey all of the parts of the IRS code that pertains to them. People can get into trouble with the IRS quite innocently because, it is by purpose and design incomprehensible, yet every taxpayer has put themselves inadvertently in a position of being responsible for rules they could not possibly understand. The bottom line is that the IRS code is completely evil.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: alfsauve on March 01, 2009, 08:37:23 PM
The bottom line is that the IRS code is completely evil.
I believe every commissioner of the IRS has admitted they couldn't possible know or understand "the code". But unlike "the pirate code" these are just suggestions. There is the force of law behind the IRS which ultimately gets enforced at the point of a gun.
I believe every commissioner of the IRS has admitted they couldn't possible know or understand "the code". But unlike "the pirate code" these are just suggestions. There is the force of law behind the IRS which ultimately gets enforced at the point of a gun.
Glad you brought up the Fairtax, for some unknown reason, I didn't mention it. I am a big supporter of the Fairtax. It truly is better then the current pile of crap we have now. If you haven't read the book The Fairtax, go and get it, it will explain everything.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: ericire12 on March 01, 2009, 08:47:29 PM
I am a big supporter of the Fairtax. It truly is better then the current pile of crap we have now.
+1
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: runstowin on March 01, 2009, 08:55:18 PM
The good part is that we get to pay for these thugs to oppress us. What a country.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: tombogan03884 on March 01, 2009, 09:00:06 PM
Section 2 Clause 3 Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed
Section 8 clause 1 The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
section 9 clause 4 No Capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.7
Yes it's unconstitutional but the only way to get rid of it is revolution. This will not get you out of paying your mortgage, that comes under contract law. One of the reasons the Articles of Confederation failed was because they contained no provision for forcing the repayment of Revolutionary war loans, Foriegn investors , afraid of not being repaid were not investing in America. The "Industrial revolution" was not possible until the Constitutions protection of debt came into affect.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: Thanos on March 01, 2009, 11:28:57 PM
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: runstowin on March 02, 2009, 09:14:46 PM
Tombogan03884: This will not get you out of paying your mortgage, that comes under contract law.
So does the income tax, people fill out and sign a contract when they do their hiring paperwork you know W-4 form. Form W-4 (2009) Purpose. Complete Form W-4 so that your employer can withhold the correct federal income tax from your pay.
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: Teresa Heilevang on March 03, 2009, 10:37:43 PM
Listen to what she has to say............
Part 1
Part 2
Title: Re: America: Freedom to Fascism
Post by: metamurph on March 04, 2009, 12:53:44 PM
.yes, the IRS does segmentation, they have to figure out who to investigate and they are serious users of profiling software and lucky for them, they don't have to work too hard to find somewhere that you have screwed up given the size of the tax code and the interpretations etc. This is why you don't want to deal with them in their own court system etc. That isn't to say is it constitutional etc. We can open up the whole federal reserve system and "foundation" of our modern economy too, lots of room to look at how the existing system is way out of whack with what the constitution states (depending on your interpretation I suppose) and this is part of why you can't say simply democrat vs. republican (if they really know what a republic is..) etc. Does it mean we should through a tea party? maybe but given the current cast of characters and the people that voted them into office I still have no desire to see a constitutional congress convened and I don't need any more issues with the irs than I already have. But I do believe we can (just as we should be doing with gun rights) have a strong local revolution which is what I find interesting with http://www.freecapitalist.com (http://www.freecapitalist.com) there needs to be a strong re-education.