The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: CDR on August 01, 2007, 11:54:06 AM
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I would appreciate any input regarding these particular semi-custom 1911 manufacturers. I am in the market for a full size semi-custom 1911 and have been looking at all of these for a few months now with a preference towards Les Baer Thunder Ranch (hard chromed version) or the Ed Brown Special Forces or Kobra. Many people also love Nighthawk Custom as well as Rock River Arms. Wilson Combat appears to have lost some ground as of late with respect to overall quality, perhaps since having lost their top gunsmiths to Nighthawk Custom. Any opinions welcomed as all of these 1911s seem to hover around the $2,000 mark, give or take, and I would like to select the best option available.
Alternatively, I am considering getting a Colt Series 70 reissue and sending it to Yost-Bonitz for an "1* Elite" Package which would run about $1,500 over the cost of the Colt. Just not sure if that would result in a pistol that is equal to or better than the alternative options I have listed. I hear good things about the Colt Gunsite Pistol as well for around $1,500. This is a Series 70 that has been modified to Gunsite's specifications which, essentially, removes the Colt MIM parts and substitute them with forged. Also some modifications to the safeties to allow for a high thumb hold. The primary Gunsite objective with this pistol is utter reliability. As I will use it for carry, naturally, this is of primary importance to me.
Many thanks gentlemen.
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CDR, you can't go wrong with a 1911 from any of those folks. Hopefully you will be able to shoot some them before you decide. I would choose the one that fit my hand, shot to POA and looked the prettiest.
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I can not vote for you due to the fact that I would not chose one over the Smith&Wesson DK two-tone 45ACP and if you want to spend more cash they have the Preformance Center pistols for you. I personally had a SVI dot-tracker that i feel i traded up to the DK45 S&W........NO JOKE. If you want more combat geared 1911 then Springfield's TRP or the Operator series would also save you some $ and time. Just saying man 8)
Tex
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If you consider buying a 1911 and spending the money to upgrade it consider Jim Garthwaite in PA.
He took a new Springfield Fully Loaded that was IMHO a piece of dung and turned it into a reliable and pretty carry gun.
He came highly recommended and finished the project on time and on budget. Jim carries everyday and is of a more tactical than gamer mind set about firearms.
http://www.garthwaite.com/
Give him a call or email him.
Good luck
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I live about an hour from both Night Hawk and Wilson. I have 2 Wilson 1911's currently and would tell you they IMHO are the best guns on the market. I also have 2 Kimbers and think they are great guns as well. BTW I have an STI that I shoot USPAS limited with and it is a great gun and shoot it more than my other 1911's. OK I am not sure that I have met a 1911 that I don’t like.
Not sure I helped but admitting I have a problem with 1911's is the first step
Jon
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I live about an hour from both Night Hawk and Wilson. I have 2 Wilson 1911's currently and would tell you they IMHO are the best guns on the market. I also have 2 Kimbers and think they are great guns as well. BTW I have an STI that I shoot USPAS limited with and it is a great gun and shoot it more than my other 1911's. OK I am not sure that I have met a 1911 that I don’t like.
Not sure I helped but admitting I have a problem with 1911's is the first step
Jon
;D LOL ;D
Yes first step but in which direction hodman?
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I think we all have a problem... too many items on that "if I just had a couple extra dolllars" category. All I can speak of is my Kimber, which has been an absolute dream, since I got it back from the gunsmith with a triggerjob and reliability package. Whereas my Springfield, which I basically gave away, went back many a time and was never worthy of competition much less carry. Truth is any of those choices will be plenty good. My advice would be to get the GUNSITE version at Gunsite and take the class too, that will do more than the difference between one gun or the other IMHO ;).
NEMASTE
Lock & Load!
(I really love that quote!)
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I've got a Colt 1911 XSE, straight from the factory it's a good one, lots of custom features at factory prices...
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take the class too, that will do more than the difference between one gun or the other IMHO ;).
I could not agree more train all you can and then train some more. Buy a lower priced gun and invest the rest in a good class.
Jon
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For the money it looks like the new STI is very good. But any platform can be made into a great shooter on a budget by a good gunsmith.
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Here is a budget 1911, http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u261/PicSnic/Guns.jpg
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Some thoughts........semi-custom today and semi-custom 20 to 25 years ago are not the same things....which I'm certain you are using contemporary thought so I am assuming you're talking about guns outside the $800 to $1,250 street price range(?).
If you compare a 1970's or 80's gun to today's guns from a good manufacturer you could call today's garden variety gun quality at least near custom..their premium models semi-custom(?). The major manufacturer's guns are all pretty good today due to CNC techniques...I agree with the earlier post that training will make the difference.
However...I would like to throw in the Kimber Team Match in as a semi-custom @ about $1,200 ;-).
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For you guys that voted for Les Baer, any thoughts or experiences you can share? I'm thinking about a 5" Thunder Ranch Special as they seem to offer tremendous value and quality. The Ed Brown Special Forces is also a possibility, but I'm not sure if its worth an additional $445 over a new Thunder Ranch Special.
Thanks.
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Since we are on the subject of 1911s and we all know how much MB loves Sig. I figured I would ask. Any thoughts on Sig's 1911s this one looks good.
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=112 (http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=112)
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For the record though... I don't think I will ever part with my Kimber! So an Amen to the Kimber suggestion :D
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For the record though... I don't think I will ever part with my Kimber! So an Amen to the Kimber suggestion :D
Or even an Eclipse II in 10 MM....hot hot hot with the Crimson Trace enhancement.
But, alas, I did not see the famed Dectonics on the list? Michael did a show on Dectonics and they did look quite good...might be too high on the price list though?
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The problem is when you get into that "semi-custom" thing. It's easier to look at 1911s in price brackets:
$350-750
$750-1200
$1200-2000
$2000 plus
If I was going to place my favorite SINGE STACK gun into each of those brackets — based on guns that I have put a lot of rounds through and own — it would be something like this:
$350-750 TAURUS PT-1911 (http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=59&category=Pistol)
$750-1200 SIGARMS REVOLUTION TTT (http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=129)
$1200-2000 S&W 1911PD GUNSITE EDITION (http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=11101&storeId=10001&productId=45928&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=15709&isFirearm=Y)
STI LEGACY (http://www.stiguns.com/)
C&S RECREATIONAL & DEFENSE (https://shop.cylinder-slide.com/ccp51/cgi-bin/cp-app.pl?usr=51F874023&rnd=6466979&rrc=N&affl=&cip=206.168.82.12&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=CSP800&cat=select&catstr=HOME:select)
$2000 + WILSON CLASSIC SUPER GRADE (http://www.wilsoncombat.com/p_supergrade.asp)
On the hgh end, you can quibble all you want. I'd probaby also include one of the TGO-1 Springfield Armory 1911s and the Les Baer Monolith. I haven't handled one of the Nighthawk pistols yet...
Michael B
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Thanks Michael for the detailed reply and the links. I hadn't considered Cylinder and Slide, but the 1911 you highlighted looks very nice. Any feelings regarding Ed Brown 1911s (I'm considering the Special Forces pistol with Gen III ceramic coating). Also, what do you think about a "1* Elite" customization on a Series 70 Colt reissue performed by Yost Bonitz?
Many thanks to everyone...much appreciated.
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I think the question is the decider in this debate. What is semi-custom and what is custom? My answer is custom, is a stock gun, rifle or pistol, that is modified from it's original state, by you or your gunsmith. To the requirements that you personally have. It can even be silly like a hot pink stock. A semi-custom is like a Good times van of the 70's, you purchase it with most of what you want, but you had no input into the process. I think once you go over 1200.00 smackers, you should have some input. I've used and massaged Les Bauers, and they are top drawer. A customer brought me his new I think Les calls it a Comanche, ( commander length pistol with alloy frame ) it ran fine, shot great, my customers complaint was it was very hard to work the slide. I agreed, and lapped the slide to frame, more than once to get it easier to manipulate. The same thing could have been done with a lot of oil, and a case of hardball. Ed Brown, top drawer again, Bill Laughridge, same thing.
The manufacturers who are offering 1911's with most of the bells and whistles are a great deal. Adjustable sights, night sights, slim sights, skeleton triggers with over travel adjustment, beaver tail grip safeties, beveled mag wells, checkered frames and main spring housings. Ambi safeties, cone barrels, barrels with integral feed ramps, accessory rails, ribbed slide on the top. Front and rear cocking serrations. The list go's on, these are the things I used to do for customers. No heart burn here, I hate checkering frames, your neck and wrist will hurt for a week. It actually helps smiths like me, because we will take what you have and tune it, maybe replace some of the factory stuff with something you really want, get your trigger pull to what you like, maybe you like a stainless grip safety against your black frame, or vice versa. CNC machining has brought everyones quality up.
Once you are part of the process, then it becomes your custom not semi custom gun.
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Since we are on the subject of 1911s and we all know how much MB loves Sig. I figured I would ask. Any thoughts on Sig's 1911s this one looks good.
http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=112 (http://www.sigarms.com/Products/ShowCatalogProductDetails.aspx?categoryid=25&productid=112)
Just got the target model and I'm in love