The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Green Mountain Gringo on March 04, 2009, 08:34:10 PM
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My wife and I recently relocated to Vermont for a change of life.
One unexpected benefit was that Vermont has NO laws banning concealed carry so long as you are legally able to own a firearm. We came from Maine where the right to carry is getting harder and harder to enjoy.
What are the laws where you live?
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Sorry this is so darn long. ::) but the FAQ sheet has a LOT of good USEFUL information.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NHSL.pdf
The above is the actual state law, You can find the gun laws for all states at;
http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/#?st=NH
next are FAQ's from Pro Gun NH
Frequently Asked Questions about NH Gun Laws
Copyright © 2006-2008 Sam Cohen
From June 2002 until February 2006, I was the volunteer who received and returned all telephone calls to Gun Owners of New Hampshire, which uses voicemail to receive all calls; there is no physical office, nor office telephone. The most common calls were questions about New Hampshire gun laws, often asked by people thinking about moving here from other states. I particularly enjoyed talking to people from our neighboring state to the south, because if it was the first time they learned about our freedoms compared with the government restrictions in Massachusetts, they were like kids opening Christmas presents.
I’m not a lawyer and cannot offer legal advice, but it might be useful to present a summary of how I answered typical questions about New Hampshire gun laws. DISCLAIMER: The opinions expressed in this article are mine only, and are not endorsed by any organization. I disclaim responsibility for any use that might be made of the contents of this article. For legal advice, contact an attorney. (I recommend Evan Nappen, the Corporate Counsel and a Director of Pro-Gun New Hampshire; go to www.efnappen.com , or call 603/223-0001.) To view New Hampshire’s state laws (RSAs, Revised Statutes Annotated) on line, go to www.nh.gov and click on “Laws & Rules,” on the left side of the page.
Q: What do I have to do to buy a gun in New Hampshire?
A: Go to a gun store, a gun show, or a private party selling a gun, and give them money.
If you buy a gun from a Federal Firearms Licensee (“FFL”) — that is, from a gun dealer/gun store, including from a licensed dealer at a gun show — federal laws apply to the purchase; in particular, you must be at least 18 years old to buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL, and at least 21 years old to buy a handgun. Of course by law you can’t possess a gun if you’re a “prohibited person” — meaning someone who’s been convicted of a felony, or who’s been convicted of a misdemeanor “crime of domestic violence,” or who falls into certain other categories as well. The FFL will conduct an “instant background check” by telephone to verify that you are not a “prohibited person.”
Q: How do I get a license or a permit to buy a gun?
A: You don’t. New Hampshire doesn’t require you to have a license or a permit to buy or own guns, with one exception: if you buy a handgun (not a rifle or shotgun) from a private party — as opposed to a licensed dealer — then by state law (RSA 159:10 and RSA 159:14) you must either have a License to Carry or be “personally known” to the seller.
Q: How do I register my guns?
A: You don't. Welcome to New Hampshire, where "Live Free or Die" is taken seriously, and you don't have to worry about people in uniform coming to your door to take your (registered) guns — because there’s no gun registration in this state. What you own is nobody else’s business.
Q: What about machine guns? Aren’t they registered?
A: OK, you got me. Even though there’s no state registration in New Hampshire, “Machine guns” (full-auto or select-fire guns, including burst-mode capable guns), sound suppressors (“silencers”), short-barreled rifles (barrels under 16 inches) and shotguns (under 18 inches), handguns with shoulder stocks, and certain other unusual guns fall under federal law, and involve special federal forms and fees.
Q: Do I need a license to carry a gun?
A: Yes, but only for these two purposes (per RSA 159:4): (1) to carry a loaded handgun concealed upon the person, other than in your home or place of business (where you can do so without a license); and (2) to have a loaded handgun in a vehicle (whether the handgun is concealed or not).
I’m not sure if riding a motorcycle or bicycle is considered being “in a vehicle”; maybe your lawyer can answer that, but as far as I’m concerned, it’s always wise to take a conservative approach to these questions.
Note that you may not have a loaded rifle or shotgun in a vehicle, by the way (per fish and game law RSA 207:7 – where “vehicle” means a motor vehicle, aircraft, or powered or towed boat, but apparently not an unpowered rowboat or canoe).
Q: Can I carry a pistol or revolver openly, say in an exposed belt holster?
A: Yes. Furthermore, you do not need a License to Carry (the piece of paper says “Pistol/Revolver License”) to carry a loaded handgun UNconcealed — that is, visible, for example in an exposed holster — unless you’re in a vehicle. (See the previous answer about vehicles.)
Keep in mind that some people may panic when they see a gun, and if they call the police, the police may come to investigate — but the New Hampshire Attorney General’s office has made it clear that open carry is a right, and that another person’s “annoyance and alarm” doesn’t supersede that right.
On the one hand, we will indeed lose our rights if we don’t exercise them, but on the other hand, it’s not smart to frighten or antagonize people, especially if you scare enough people to make the news — which may lead to legislation restricting open carry. Use good judgment. (Hint: look and act like a responsible citizen. It helps to be well-dressed.) Also, from a practical (as opposed to “political”) point of view, if you’re carrying openly in a place where there might actually be an armed criminal attack, you’ll be the first target.
Q: Where can I and can I not carry? What about banks, bars, and hospitals?
A: By state law (RSA 159:19), the only place you can’t have a gun is a courthouse or courtroom. By federal law, there are two places where you can’t carry, but these federal laws are controversial; still, I advise people not to be the “test case” in federal court, because (a) if you lose in court, then you’re going to federal prison, and (b) if you win in court, Congress may well rewrite the law to be more restrictive, because they’re that way (and this actually happened in 1996; look up the 1995 US Supreme Court case United States v. Lopez). Here are the two federal laws:
(1) Title 18, United States Code, Section 930 prohibits firearms (and also knives with blades longer than 2-1/2 inches) in federal “facilities,” meaning buildings — and that includes post offices. The controversy arises over paragraph (d) of that section, which provides an exemption for “the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.” Note that despite the law, the Code of Federal Regulations says no guns are allowed, and you’ll find notices posted on the door threatening you with arrest. Federal law (United States Code) trumps federal regulations, but I find handcuffs uncomfortable.
(2) Title 18, United State Code, Section 922, paragraph (q) is the Gun Free School Zones Act. You can’t have a gun in, on the grounds of, or within 1,000 feet of the property line of, an elementary or secondary school, whether public or private. (Note that this doesn’t include colleges or universities.)
18 USC 922 (q) includes exemptions for private property (i.e., you’re OK if your house is next to a school), for police officers on duty, for school-approved programs, and for unloaded guns in locked containers or locked gun racks. There’s also an exemption for people holding carry licenses, but only if state law requires that “before an individual obtains such a license, the law enforcement authorities of the State or political subdivision verify that the individual is qualified under law to receive the license.” Unfortunately, New Hampshire state law (RSA 159:6) arguably does NOT make the cut, in part because town selectmen and city mayors can issue carry licenses, and they’re not “law enforcement authorities.” But even if your carry license was issued by a police chief, it doesn’t protect you, because our state law doesn’t meet the requirements of the federal law.
This federal “Gun Free School Zones Act” is unpopular, and some people prefer to believe that New Hampshire’s carry licenses provide an exemption, despite the above analysis. Further, nobody in New Hampshire has been arrested or prosecuted on the basis of this federal law. Still, you have to ask yourself if you want to be the test case.
So, to summarize: state law prohibits you from carrying in courtrooms and courthouses; federal law, though controversial, “technically” puts you at risk of arrest and prosecution for carrying in federal buildings (including post offices) and in or near elementary or secondary schools.
Besides all of this, on private property (including stores, theaters, restaurants, etc.), the property owner can set a “no guns” policy, ask you to leave if you’re carrying, and have you arrested for trespassing if you don’t leave, but otherwise you’re legal. (Note: if you hear of such policies, please inform Pro-Gun New Hampshire: 603/226-PGNH.)
Q: I’ve seen city and town parks and buildings with “no weapons” or “no firearms” signs. What about them?
A: I don’t know about knives and other “weapons,” but RSA 159:26, effective July 2003, declares that only the state (not cities or towns) may regulate firearms, and that any city or town ordinances about guns are null and void, except for zoning and hunting. (Note: State Representative Elbert Bicknell introduced and promoted the legislation that became RSA 159:26. Bick was soon after elected president of Gun Owners of New Hampshire, and then in 2006, became the first president of Pro-Gun New Hampshire.)
Q: How do I get a concealed carry license?
A: First, get an application form. You can get one from your town police department, or download a blank form from the Web at www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/documents/dssp85.pdf . (The latest revision date at this time is 08/04 — found at the lower left corner of the form.) Fill it out and give it to your police department. (In small towns without their own full-time police officers, the town selectmen issue carry licenses, unless they’ve arranged for the county sheriff to do so.) Note that the form asks “for what reason(s) do you make application to carry a pistol in New Hampshire?”; according to the law (RSA 159:6), “hunting, target shooting, or self-defense shall be considered a proper purpose. The license shall be valid for all allowable purposes regardless of the purpose for which it was originally issued.” Licenses are issued for at least four years, and the fee is ten dollars. (Non-resident licenses, issued by the state police, cost twenty dollars.)
Q: Who can get a concealed carry license?
A: With some rare exceptions, anyone who isn’t prohibited by law from possessing a gun is generally issued a License to Carry. State law (RSA 159:6 and 159:6-c) provides that if you’re denied a license, the issuing authority must give you the reason(s) for denial in writing within 14 days of the application; you have 30 days to ask the local district or municipal court for a hearing; the court must hold a hearing within 14 days after that; and “during this hearing the burden shall be upon the issuing authority to demonstrate by clear and convincing proof why any denial, suspension, or revocation was justified, failing which the court shall enter an order directing the issuing authority to grant or reinstate the petitioner's license.”
Q: My local police department says that they will take more than 14 days to process my application for a concealed carry license; they gave me a second form (besides the standard one-page application form); they require more than three references; they require my references to send letters to the police department; they require documented proof of firearms training; and they want fingerprints and photographs. Which of these actions are legal?
A: None of them. RSA 159:6 requires that licenses shall be issued or denied within 14 days of application, that “no other forms [other than the state-standard one-page form for NH residents, DSSP 85] shall be used,” and that no fingerprints or photographs may be demanded. RSA 159:6-f provides that issuing authorities who violate the law may be personally liable to you for court costs and attorney’s fees, provided that “the court finds that the entity or person knew or should have known that the conduct engaged in was a violation of this chapter” — which you can ensure by printing out a copy of all 26 sections of RSA 159 and delivering it to your police department.
Most police departments follow the law, but since the most common violation is delay beyond 14 days, I recommend that you send your completed application form (plus the print-out of the law) by certified mail, return receipt requested. That provides evidence of the date your application was delivered.
Q: Is my New Hampshire License to Carry valid in other states?
A: Only in those states with which New Hampshire has reciprocity, meaning states that agree to recognize our licenses if we recognize theirs. There are currently (November 2007) 20 such states, listed on line: go to www.nh.gov ; click on “State Agencies” on the right; scroll down to “S” and click on “State Police Division” (within the Safety Department); then click on "Support Services Bureau" on the left; then click on “Permits and Licensing Unit” on the left; then click on “Pistol and Revolver.” No, Massachusetts isn’t on the list. The nearest state where your NH license is recognized is Pennsylvania. (For you sissies afraid of the cold, note that Florida is on the list.) And, of course, you don’t need a license to carry concealed in Vermont. Be aware that if you go to these states, you must follow their gun laws, which may be more restrictive than New Hampshire’s.
Here’s the current list (note, subject to frequent change): Alabama, Alaska, Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Michigan, Missouri, Mississippi, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Utah, and Wyoming.
Q: Where is it legal to shoot?
A: Per state law (RSAs 207:3-a, 207:3-c, and 644:13), you may not shoot across or within 15 feet of a road, or “within 300 feet of a permanently occupied dwelling without permission of the owner or the occupant of the dwelling or from the owner of the land on which the person discharging the firearm or shooting the bow and arrow is situated.”
You also may not discharge a firearm within the “compact part of a town or city,” defined as “the territory within a town or city comprised of the following:
(a) Any nonresidential, commercial building, including, but not limited to, industrial, educational, or medical buildings, plus a perimeter 300 feet wide around all such buildings without permission of the owner.
(b) Any park, playground, or other outdoor public gathering place designated by the legislative body of the city or town.
(c) Any contiguous area containing 6 or more buildings which are used as either part-time or permanent dwellings and the spaces between them where each such building is within 300 feet of at least one of the others, plus a perimeter 300 feet wide around all the buildings in such area.”
Further, it’s just common sense and courtesy to ask permission of the landowner to shoot on private property, even if there is no “permanently occupied dwelling” within 300 feet.
For target shooting, many people belong to a gun club, and there are many of them in New Hampshire; the local police can tell you where they are, and you can find a list of shooting clubs compiled by the state Fish and Game department at http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Links/fish_and_game_clubs.htm. Also, there are two commercial indoor shooting ranges in the state (at least that I know of): the Manchester Firing Line (628-7663), and Belmont Firearms and Range (524-8678).
I hope this helps your understanding of New Hampshire gun laws. If you have any questions, feel free to ask any member of the Misguided Malcontent March. (Just kidding, of course. Call Pro-Gun New Hampshire, 226-PGNH, and we’ll call you back.)
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Sam Cohen is a founder and the Executive Vice President of Pro-Gun New Hampshire, Inc., and was a Director of Gun Owners of New Hampshire, Inc., from 2001 to 2006. For several of those years he was also the GO-NH Legislative Liaison, testifying on behalf of GO-NH at state legislative hearings. He is also the New Hampshire spokesman for two national organizations: Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, and KeepAndBearArms.com. He is proud to have befriended a number of New Hampshire legislators and other state officials.
Note: The original version of this article was posted on freestateblogs.net in January 2006. This version was updated on November 12, 2007 and on June 29, 2008.
© 2006-2009 Pro-Gun New Hampshire Inc.
26 S. Main St., PMB 284
Concord, NH 03301-4809
Tel. (603)226-PGNH [226-7464]
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Damn Tom
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Damn Tom
Don't even TRY to tell me you read it already ! ;D
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Don't even TRY to tell me you read it already ! ;D
No, but I think I got carpel tunnel trying to scroll all the way through it
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No, but I think I got carpel tunnel trying to scroll all the way through it
Yes, I know ;D, I replaced the State law with the links to the NRA ILA site but that FAQ sheet has a lot of good info.
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I never thought that I would say this in my life, but not nearly restrictive enough here in Fl. Don't get wrong, I have a permit in my wallet, and if I'm wearing pants, I'm carrying a gun (Thank God and Tx. for Bond Arms derringers). The problem I have is that Fl requirese no practical test to get your ccw. To me this seems like giving somebody a drivers license without a road test. I believe we have a right to both drive and carry, but is it too much to ask that you show that you know what you're doing before hitting the road? I got my first ccw in Tx. They reguire an 8 hour course. The first half is dedicated to safety, the law and conflict avoidance. Then we had to go to the range and shoot a watered down police qualifying test. I thought this was both prudent and reasonble. It balanced my rights to self defense against public safety quite nicely. When I moved back to Fl, all I had to do was get fingerprinted and send in a copy of a hunters safey course I took when I was 10, and I'm pushing 40, (thank God for packrat mothers : :) ). While I appreciate the convienance, wouldn't someone like to know if I could at least shoot? I am not arguing for stricter gun laws, far from it, but I do think we should treat ccw like drivers licences. But if this is the biggest complaint about ccw laws in my state, i guess I'm sitting fat and happy.
fightingquaker13
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I never thought that I would say this in my life, but not nearly restrictive enough here in Fl. Don't get wrong, I have a permit in my wallet, and if I'm wearing pants, I'm carrying a gun (Thank God and Tx. for Bond Arms derringers). The problem I have is that Fl requirese no practical test to get your ccw. To me this seems like giving somebody a drivers license without a road test. I believe we have a right to both drive and carry, but is it too much to ask that you show that you know what you're doing before hitting the road? I got my first ccw in Tx. They reguire an 8 hour course. The first half is dedicated to safety, the law and conflict avoidance. Then we had to go to the range and shoot a watered down police qualifying test. I thought this was both prudent and reasonble. It balanced my rights to self defense against public safety quite nicely. When I moved back to Fl, all I had to do was get fingerprinted and send in a copy of a hunters safey course I took when I was 10, and I'm pushing 40, (thank God for packrat mothers : :) ). While I appreciate the convienance, wouldn't someone like to know if I could at least shoot? I am not arguing for stricter gun laws, far from it, but I do think we should treat ccw like drivers licences. But if this is the biggest complaint about ccw laws in my state, i guess I'm sitting fat and happy.
fightingquaker13
There is no skill test for any other CIVIL RIGHT either, nor should there be !
It comes under that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED bit.
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There is no skill test for any other CIVIL RIGHT either, nor should there be !
It comes under that SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED bit.
True, and I agree 100%, if we were talking about owning a gun. BUT we're talking about carrying them on the street where collateral damage is a real posability. In your home go nuts, but if you draw down in the grocery store I'd at least like to know that you don't need to read the "This Side Toward Enemy" fine print. I don't think Texas is anybody's idea of an anti-2A state. I just think they strike the right balance
fightingquaker13
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True, and I agree 100%, if we were talking about owning a gun. BUT we're talking about carrying them on the street where collateral damage is a real posability. In your home go nuts, but if you draw down in the grocery store I'd at least like to know that you don't need to read the "This Side Toward Enemy" fine print. I don't think Texas is anybody's idea of an anti-2A state. I just think they strike the right balance
fightingquaker13
I don't suppose you have a problem with poll taxes or literacy tests for voting either right. Poor reasoning like you are exhibiting are how we got to the point where we may have to overthrow an administration to KEEP our rights.
And compared to Alaska and a couple of New England states Texas isn't all that gun friendly.
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I don't suppose you have a problem with poll taxes or literacy tests for voting either right. Poor reasoning like you are exhibiting are how we got to the point where we may have to overthrow an administration to KEEP our rights.
And compared to Alaska and a couple of New England states Texas isn't all that gun friendly.
Tom ,
Okay, I see you're excerised about this. I don't want to get into a fight, because based upon your posts I've read, I think we're pretty much on the same page. BUT, the thing is is this, no right is absolute. Lets take free speech. The Court has consistently ruled that the government may not regulate as to content (obscenity being a theoretical though not practical exception), yet it has also held that speech may be regulated as to time, place and manner. This means no loudspeaker trucks, at a reasonable hour and not on someone's private property etc..
The idea here being that while we may speak and assemble and say what we will, we can't do it on your font lawn at 2:00 in morning. I would submit that the same is true of "shall issue" ccw permits.
This is where your comparison to poll taxes and literacy tests goes (for want of a better word) south ;D. These tests were designed to prohibit a particular class of persons from exercising their rights. They weren't appllied fairly and equitably, nor did they serve a "compelling state interest". These are the key words. A literacy test to vote cannot be justified. A road test to drive your car, or carry (not own) a gun can be, so long as it is applied fairly across the board. The bottom line is that while the state may not constitutionally keep you from owning a gun, it can say that in order to carry it where others may be injured or killed if you screw up, you have to demonstrate competance. This is a "compelling state interest". I am not in way, shape, or form arguing for gun control or anything like it. Own what you want. I am however , stating that when it comes to public carry, concealed or open, that it is hard to argue that it is unreasonable for the government to set rational terms and conditions for doing so. As long as they respect the fact that we have a right to do so and do not need to demonstrate cauuse, but merely competancy and sufficent age to do so, I do not see how our rights are threatened.
Respectfully
fightingquaker13
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There is no skill test for any other CIVIL RIGHT either, nor should there be !
There should be for voting!
Exhibit A: BHO
;D
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fightingquaker13
His comments about poll taxes and literary tests are 100% applicable to this discussion.
The far left gun grabbers know that they can not blatantly take our guns away..... Obama has said so himself..... Therefore they are trying to disenfranchise Americans from gun ownership and concealed carry rights through taxation and fees on things like ammunition, permits, the new proposed bill that would mandate insurance coverage, etc etc.......
all they are doing with us is cooking frogs.
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"Lets take free speech. The Court has consistently ruled that the government may not regulate as to content (obscenity being a theoretical though not practical exception), yet it has also held that speech may be regulated as to time, place and manner. This means no loudspeaker trucks, at a reasonable hour and not on someone's private property etc.."
Those are not a limitation on free speech, they are about trespassing and disturbing the peace which has absolutely NOTHING to do with content. In fact the 1st Amendment has been used (erroneously as there is NO such thing as "freedom of EXPRESSION) to defend everything from flag burning to child porn (granted that has had mixed results, but wins in SOME instances)
" The idea here being that while we may speak and assemble and say what we will, we can't do it on your font lawn at 2:00 in morning."
You most certainly CAN . As long as I give you permission to be there and the Neighbors don't complain about the volume.
"A road test to drive your car, or carry (not own) a gun can be, so long as it is applied fairly across the board. "
Driving a car is not a Constitutionally guaranteed civil liberty , keeping and BEARING arms is.
Another problem with your examples refers back to MB's podcast #99, PRECEDENT, Ca. allows CCW with a permit, but in Alameda County you have to pay $3000 to get the permit, therefore I was deprived of my State verified civil liberty on economic grounds. Your suggestion would simply create another loop hole for abuse, just like every other precedent in legal history. Remember, the kiss of death for theories," It SEEMED like a good idea at the time".
Amendment IX: Existence of other rights for the people.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment XIV: Privileges or immunities, due process, elections and debt.
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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Tom is 100% right on this. No amount of infringement is acceptable. Once started on that path, it is hard to correct. Keep at it Tom. +100
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I think I may be unclear on one point in my post. I do like the ccw tests in Texas. I AM NOT however, advocating that states such as Florida go back and apply them retroctively. As someone who studies government for a living I know full well what size can of worms (or other stuff) that would open. Let sleeping dogs lie is a classic for a reason. However I do think for states without shall issue laws, TX. is a model. Here's why. The range where I shoot has no rangemaster. Non-ideal I know, but they're the only game in town. I spend, as you might imagine, a fair bit of time there. Watching people with ccws ,(At least I assume they have them, as they carry concealed) is often deppressing. A lot of these folks are just scary. Not knowing how to safely clear a jam, poor safety practices, nothing but rapid fire, ridiculously poor marksmanship, as in emptying a revolver at 7 yds. and none in the target poor etc..
From time to time I try to help out, sometimes the help is accepted, oddly enough more often by women (Who'd a thought knowing how to shoot was as good as a cute puppy?). Moreoften, however it is not, as being a guy means we already know everything about guns. The point is that too often I find myself a little concerned about safey pracices on the range. I do not want to be in the same parking lot if one these guys gets mugged and has to "put his bugger hook on the bang switch" (sorry Tom that's just too good not use).
fightingquaker13
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Personal responsibility can not be Legislated. Pretty much every one who has nearly killed you because they were on the cell phone while driving attended Drivers Ed classes where they were told to concentrate on driving. Police officers are supposed to be trained , but in that famous case in NY they fired 40 some odd rounds in a tenement hallway (figure a range of well under 10 FEET ) and while they killed the unarmed target, they only hit him 6 times, where did the rest of the bullets go ? Your idea is a waste of time as it would not accomplish anything.
All states should be "Shall issue" states if we can not get rid of the permits entirely like Alaska and Vt.(which has one of the lowest crime rates in the country).
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Tom,
Cross the border, move here to Vermont. The snow should be gone by June they tell me. ;D
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Tom,
Cross the border, move here to Vermont. The snow should be gone by June they tell me. ;D
Sales tax, and no manufacturing jobs. You have State income tax as well don't you ?
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You're running rings around me logically.
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You're running rings around me logically.
Don't let it get to you, I don't have any work HERE either .
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I love my state. Two hours in the classroom going over state laws regarding use of force, which I actually learned a lot from. Then 20 rounds at the range with at least 10 (I think) in target just to be sure we wouldn't kill ourselves. Shipped off the small amount of paperwork and picked up my permit at the sheriff's office a couple of weeks later. So simple a child could do it, but required enough mental capacity to eliminate those scary individuals. :D I am in no way in favor of more regulations being thrust upon a God given right, but a little bit of required education goes a long way. Some of these idiots who do stupid things, while carrying legally, could be eliminated and not cast a shadow upon those of us who carry responsibly. They endanger our rights to a greater extent than demanding a small amount of training because of the way they shape public opinion.
Swoop
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I love my state. Two hours in the classroom going over state laws regarding use of force, which I actually learned a lot from. Then 20 rounds at the range with at least 10 (I think) in target just to be sure we wouldn't kill ourselves. Shipped off the small amount of paperwork and picked up my permit at the sheriff's office a couple of weeks later. So simple a child could do it, but required enough mental capacity to eliminate those scary individuals. :D I am in no way in favor of more regulations being thrust upon a God given right, but a little bit of required education goes a long way. Some of these idiots who do stupid things, while carrying legally, could be eliminated and not cast a shadow upon those of us who carry responsibly. They endanger our rights to a greater extent than demanding a small amount of training because of the way they shape public opinion.
Swoop
Amen Brother! Its not that you don't have a right to do it, it's just that that you should know what you're doing.
fightingquaker13
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Well carry laws here in TN. are among the best in the land. Open carry and laws soon to be passed are carry in places that serve liquor or beer. Basically we can carry anyplace except federal buildings and places that are legally posted.
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Well carry laws here in TN. are among the best in the land. Open carry and laws soon to be passed are carry in places that serve liquor or beer. Basically we can carry anyplace except federal buildings and places that are legally posted.
The state allows businesses to post "no guns allowed"?
In FL no one can 'post' I just wish we had 'open carry', other than that it is pretty good here. Can't carry in a place that primarily gets it's business from alcohol sales (bars) but restaurants that serve are allowed.
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NH rocks, open or concealed (with $10 permit) anywhere except schools, Courts or Federal buildings, No No gun signs, Full auto suppressors both OK. Other than CCW, no permits or registrations at all. ;D
Better than Texas !
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I am all for people getting training if they're going to own, shoot, or carry a gun. But I don't think the state has any business mandating that training or restricting my rights if I don't get my training from their preferred vendor.
For that mater, I think we'd all be better off if we participated in some sort of regular competition, did some basic gunsmithing, gave some serious thought to the ethical and moral implications of using a gun for self defense, and honed our avoidance techniques. Good shooters do all these things.
But do we really want the state to tell your grandmother that because she can't easily get to the range 60 miles away on the day the class is offered, spend X hours in the classroom and X hours on a hot outdoor range that she can't buy a gun or carry it with her when she goes to the bank?
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I am all for people getting training if they're going to own, shoot, or carry a gun. But I don't think the state has any business mandating that training or restricting my rights if I don't get my training from their preferred vendor.
For that mater, I think we'd all be better off if we participated in some sort of regular competition, did some basic gunsmithing, gave some serious thought to the ethical and moral implications of using a gun for self defense, and honed our avoidance techniques. Good shooters do all these things.
But do we really want the state to tell your grandmother that because she can't easily get to the range 60 miles away on the day the class is offered, spend X hours in the classroom and X hours on a hot outdoor range that she can't buy a gun or carry it with her when she goes to the bank?
There is no REQUIRED safety training to own a stove or cleaning products, but both can kill you.
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Any RESPONSIBLE citizen who chooses to carry a firearm WILL get training because it's the right thing to do! That training can come in many forms. I've trained my daughter better than any certified instructor could have because I have to live with possiblity that harm could come to the dearest person in my life.
I however, must agree with most here, it should NOT be a mandate by the Government, Federal or State. In MA, it's about money, nothing more, nothing less.....
Most of us older guys can attest to the furor of the fathers that provided 99.99% of our training! You don't easily forget that training and the military reinforces what our fathers taught us...No amount of state sponsored bullshite can even come close..
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Our law states that you must be able to document training. You can take a class ($40.00 at my range) or your DD2 will do. I also believe that proof of belonging to a shooting discipline will do.
Yes, I do want the holder to have to prove they have been at least minimally trained in safe handling.
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Our law states that you must be able to document training. You can take a class ($40.00 at my range) or your DD2 will do. I also believe that proof of belonging to a shooting discipline will do.
Yes, I do want the holder to have to prove they have been at least minimally trained in safe handling.
Our state system ignores our DD214 but an illiterate, undocumented, half-blind illegal alien can get a drivers license pretty easily...
My daughters "STATE APPROVED" drivers test in a 3000 lb station wagon by a 19 year old MA State Trooper took all of 4 minutes!!!!
None of it makes sense....
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Serious / responsible gun owners will get training of SOME kind just to perform better in their chosen sport.
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Serious / responsible gun owners will get training of SOME kind just to perform better in their chosen sport.
Yes, but sadly I must observe that not everyone buying guns right now is a serious gun owner.
In NJ one must prove an urgent need for protection, backed up by police reports of threats and/or assaults, attacks, etc.
In other words, you can be attacked, raped, and nearly killed, and the judge can look at the police reports and say, "Hire a body guard."
We DID just defeat a 1 gun per month bill though. Every little bit counts![/color]
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Crime rate here is minimal, we DO have gun accidents though one or two every couple years.
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Well carry laws here in TN. are among the best in the land. Open carry and laws soon to be passed are carry in places that serve liquor or beer. Basically we can carry anyplace except federal buildings and places that are legally posted.
I hope they're drawing the line we have in Fl. and Tx., that distinguishes between bars and those restraunts that serve. ( A fine distinction, but a real one. In a Fridays you may have two margaritas. In a bar you probably will, or why the hell were you there in the first place)? The danger of a drunken idiot with a licensed pistol to our right to ccw is a lot greater than this small distinction. I like to carry a gun and I also like to go to a bar and drink beer and throw darts. I just know (law or no law) that the two don't mix. I voluntarily disarm myself if I know that I might become inebriated. I'm afraid that a lot of well meaning folks won't, if they don't have the warning before hand that guns in bars are a no go. Its like DWI, we all know its a bad idea, but the constant reminders help us to do the right thing and call a cab ifthere's even the slightest question.
fightingquaker13
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I hope they're drawing the line we have in Fl. and Tx., that distinguishes between bars and those restraunts that serve. ( A fine distinction, but a real one. In a Fridays you may have two margaritas. In a bar you probably will, or why the hell were you there in the first place)? The danger of a drunken idiot with a licensed pistol to our right to ccw is a lot greater than this small distinction. I like to carry a gun and I also like to go to a bar and drink beer and throw darts. I just know (law or no law) that the two don't mix. I voluntarily disarm myself if I know that I might become inebriated. I'm afraid that a lot of well meaning folks won't, if they don't have the warning before hand that guns in bars are a no go. Its like DWI, we all know its a bad idea, but the constant reminders help us to do the right thing and call a cab ifthere's even the slightest question.
fightingquaker13
In NH we can carry ANYWHERE. since 2000 there has been ONE case of a drunk causing trouble in a bar with a gun and he WAS NOT a CCW holder, He went home and got his M 1 Garand and emptied it into the building.
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In NH we can carry ANYWHERE. since 2000 there has been ONE case of a drunk causing trouble in a bar with a gun and he WAS NOT a CCW holder, He went home and got his M 1 Garand and emptied it into the building.
I'm glad to hear it, but New Hampshire ain't Miami. Hell, some days, Bagdhad ain't Miami. Bienvenidos a Flori'da.
fightingquaker13
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Miami NEEDS more dead bodies. Same as NY, Chicago and LA. You notice a trend here? the highest murder rates are in the cities with the most a$$holes that need to be killed, take DC for example.
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Miami NEEDS more dead bodies. Same as NY, Chicago and LA. You notice a trend here? the highest murder rates are in the cities with the most a$$holes that need to be killed, take DC for example.
Uh...should I be offended?
fightingquaker13
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Uh...should I be offended?
fightingquaker13
NAAA, yer one of the good guys. Just bring the flag when you leave. ;)
UPDATE: I see from other threads that you are in TX. I was thinking you were in Miami. (pronounced me-yam-ee ;) )
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NAAA, yer one of the good guys. Just bring the flag when you leave. ;)
UPDATE: I see from other threads that you are in TX. I was thinking you were in Miami. (pronounced me-yam-ee ;) )
Actually I'm in Palm Beach but I have friends in Miami. I did my grad work in Austin and lived there for six years, and still miss miss Texas It just kind of sneaks up on you that way. As far as bringing the flag, which one ::).
fightingquaker13
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Actually I'm in Palm Beach but I have friends in Miami. I did my grad work in Austin and lived there for six years, and still miss miss Texas It just kind of sneaks up on you that way. As far as bringing the flag, which one ::).
fightingquaker13
Bring the only flag that matters!
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Bring the only flag that matters!
Here in sunny South Florida "the one that matters" will depend on who I ask. Did I forget to mention that I miss Texas?
fightingquaker13
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No offense this time, and about the flag, bring the one with the stripes, you can leave the one with the triangle there.
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Here in sunny South Florida "the one that matters" will depend on who I ask. Did I forget to mention that I miss Texas?
fightingquaker13
Ask an AMERICAN! He or She will give you the answer you seek Grasshopper!!!!! ;D