The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: MikeBjerum on March 05, 2009, 08:23:26 AM
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Or is it butts in the air ???
Last night while cleaning up from the Bullseye match someone started blasting the NRA for their fund raising calls and mailings. I went into my typical speech of they are pros at this and know the returns, and if it didn't raise more than it costs they wouldn't do it.
The discussion moved to fullauto weapons and what it takes to have one. Most in the group did not know that as a Minnesota resident we can't have them. Suddenly an older guy (and that is saying something coming from me) chimed in that he was glad the NRA went along and let fullauto go by the wayside.
Tomorrow, Friday, Minnesota Legislature is going to debate new registration and reporting for semi auto handguns and "assault weapons." Nearly half the group chimed in with they had read this and reminded me that it would not affect hunting guns or hunters. One quick response of "the Second Amendment is not about hunting" cleared one third from the room, and the statement brought the other third forward with "if they take away the Second Amendment the First will be gone within a year!"
The gentleman that brought up the fullauto issue responded with " ...the only reason for a fullauto is to kill people." I responded with "What do you think Thomas Jefferson had in mind when he talked about over throwing the Government if it became tyranical?"
It shouldn't have caught me off guard to face discussions like this at a gun range, since gun ranges and gun shops seem to be the places I run into the weirdest ideas about gun regulations. As I drove home I thought to myself that if we lose our guns it will be because we gave them away, and not because someone came and took them.
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You did good m58, keep fighting the fight.
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FUDDS are our very own fifth column - and they will help bring us down.
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FUDDS are our very own fifth column - and they will help bring us down.
This is something we should be telling them to their faces.
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Their" ignorance" makes it hard to fight >:(
m58 way to go!
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E Mail I just sent B Hore:
You claimed you supported the 2nd amendment, If so you should be pushing the "national right to carry legislation being proposed.
You criticized former President Bush because after 8 years fighting 2 wars he left us $1/2 trillion debt, how do you justify increasing that by 150% with less than 45 days in office. If you handled your personal finances the way you are handling the economy you would not be in the White house, you would be in the poorhouse.
You "promised" open, honest government, yet 4 of your Cabinet picks are guilty of tax evasions that would have landed "ordinary" citizens in jail. On the same subject, why are you afraid to debate Rush ? He represents the 48% who did not vote for you, don't you care about THEIR concerns ?
Personally I sincerely hope you will be s great a President as you claim, but neither I or the stock market are betting that way.
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why are you afraid to debate Rush ? He represents the 48% who did not vote for you, don't you care about THEIR concerns ?
Of course he doesn't.
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I also see plenty of the weekend warriors at the gun store/range, you can almost see it in their eyes. They bought this cause its cool, big, loud, bigger than yours, etc,... BUT, their head is TOTALLY in the sand...
They have poor range habits, sloppy firearm handling, and no interest in improving any part of their firearms training. For them its a
"Hobby".
FUDDS are our very own fifth column - and they will help bring us down.
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E Mail I just sent B Hore:
You claimed you supported the 2nd amendment, If so you should be pushing the "national right to carry legislation being proposed.
I have some serious questions about this, having not read the bill. I very strogly support the idea in theory. My worry, and it might seem strange to those who have followed the ongoing debate betwen me and Tom on the state ccl thread, is that such a bill will potentially impose stricter federal controls than currently exist in the states. While Tom and I differ on whether a practical test should be part of a NEW!!! shall issue law, I think we are on the same page when it comes to leaving current law alone, so as not to give the antis an opportunity to start setting new restrictions and requirements. This may sound selfish coming from someone who lives in a "shall issue" state that enjoys 20 odd state reciprocity, but I still fear giving Kennedy and Pelosi an oppotunity to poke their noses into existing state law. If anyone has any thoughts and or knowledge about sponsorship or text of the law, I'd love hear it.
Fightingquaker13
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Fightingquaker, You seem to have lost the [ ] between quote and comment. ;D
As I heard Senator Vitter explain it, the permit process would remain the same but ALL CCW states would be required to honor ALL CCW's (National reciprocity, rather than national CCW) Since no 2 states have the same laws the permit holder would be responsible for finding out the laws of the state he was going to.
Hear the same interview I heard here;
http://guntalk.libsyn.com/ 03-01 part A
Check out this thread too: http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,5499.0/topicseen.html
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Fightingquaker, You seem to have lost the [ ] between quote and comment. ;D
As I heard Senator Vitter explain it, the permit process would remain the same but ALL CCW states would be required to honor ALL CCW's (National reciprocity, rather than national CCW) Since no 2 states have the same laws the permit holder would be responsible for finding out the laws of the state he was going to.
Hear the same interview I heard here;
http://guntalk.libsyn.com/ 03-01 part A
Check out this thread too: http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,5499.0/topicseen.html
Let"s see if I can get the [ ] thing right this time. This sounds good IF it doesn't get loaded up with anti amendments. I also have a theoretical quandry. While the idea of a national shall issue permit (or its close enough equivelent, via mandatory reciprocity) is something I support, is this a violation of states rights and federalism.? After all conditions in New Jersey and North Dakota are different, should they be allowed to legislate accordingly? (Although I hear there is a dangerous SOB running around with MY assault rifle up there). ;D I'd be inclined to say no since the second amendment is federal, but its not an insignificant concern. What about states like Vt. where there is no permit? Would this make it harder to get ccw passed in states like Illinois, New Jersey etc if they have to worry about a bunch of crazed maple syrup addicted, pro-Bartlett yahoos showing up wih unlicensed Howard Dean posters? I mean it is something we have to think about strategically. We can't let the perfect become the enemy of the good, and it seems like the states are doing a pretty good about working out reciprocity. For me the goal is nation wide "shall issue" I just worry that we are potentially buying a lot of bad unforseen consequences in terms of making it harder to get anti leaning states to pass ccw laws. On the other hand fortune favors the bold. This isn't an opinion, just thinking out loud.
fightinquaker13
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E Mail I just sent B Hore:
That van parked by your house is just the phone company doing repairs 24/7...... :o
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May be a silly question but what is a fudd???
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Let them, I've learned a few things for surveillance teams as well over the years. I'm a law abiding citizen with no "odd" talents or jobs, Many people I have known over the years have not been able to say that. ;D
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May be a silly question but what is a fudd???
Fudd - Slang term for a "casual" gun owner; eg; a person who typically only owns guns for hunting or shotgun sports and does not truly believe in the true premise of the second amendment. These people also generally treat owners/users of so called "non sporting" firearms like handguns or semiautomatic rifles with unwarranted scorn or contempt.
"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a fudd at a local gun shop. See also: Zumbo. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?page=1&term=fudd
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"See sonny, all those pistols in that cabinet... all thems is good for is killin people." -Example of ignorant comment from a fudd at a local gun shop.
What else are they good for? ;)
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What else are they good for? ;)
Shooting targets
- paper plates
- steel plates
- IPSC
- USPSA
- 3-gun
- other
Also for self-defense against predators of the 4- and 3-legged variety, to stop crimes against yourself and your loved ones. All among other things.
You asked a silly question, one that also allows our enemies a foothold. Understand this - Need and purpose are irrelevant. Do you need a library? Do you need 50 brands of toothpaste? Do you need to vote?
More seriously about rights, do you need to talk on this forum? Do you need to go to the Presbyterian Church instead of the Baptist? Do you need your privacy? Do you need not to quarter soldiers in your home?
It is not about need or purpose.
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Shooting targets
- paper plates
- steel plates
- IPSC
- USPSA
- 3-gun
- other
Also for self-defense against predators of the 4- and 3-legged variety, to stop crimes against yourself and your loved ones. All among other things.
You asked a silly question, one that also allows our enemies a foothold. Understand this - Need and purpose are irrelevant. Do you need a library? Do you need 50 brands of toothpaste? Do you need to vote?
More seriously about rights, do you need to talk on this forum? Do you need to go to the Presbyterian Church instead of the Baptist? Do you need your privacy? Do you need not to quarter soldiers in your home?
It is not about need or purpose.
Old people with a cane? ;D
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;D ;D ;D A N T I R E D N E C K S ;D ;D ;D
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Shooting targets
- paper plates
- steel plates
- IPSC
- USPSA
- 3-gun
- other
Also for self-defense against predators of the 4- and 3-legged variety, to stop crimes against yourself and your loved ones. All among other things.
You asked a silly question, one that also allows our enemies a foothold. Understand this - Need and purpose are irrelevant. Do you need a library? Do you need 50 brands of toothpaste? Do you need to vote?
More seriously about rights, do you need to talk on this forum? Do you need to go to the Presbyterian Church instead of the Baptist? Do you need your privacy? Do you need not to quarter soldiers in your home?
It is not about need or purpose.
Sometimes YES ;D If I said some of these things in a more mixed crowd I would be lynched and my grave would be desacrated ;D
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Sometimes YES ;D If I said some of these things in a more mixed crowd I would be lynched and my grave would be desacrated ;D
That may happen before this is all over anyway, Tom.
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;D Oh well, when I'm in more trouble than my butt can handle , my mouth is usually what got me there . ;D
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Back on topic, we shouldn't be ripping the 'fudds' apart as traitors to the 2nd amendment. They are merely ignorant of the the situation and history. We ought to try and educate them, it can be done. I used to be one of them folks, I was totally content with letting the government protect me from invasion and the collapse of societies, but who was going to protect me from them?
Don't hate, educate. ;D ;D ;D
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Don't hate, educate. ;D ;D ;D
Good point! However, some don't care about the difference. Some are willing to sacrafice a Right to keep their pet interest. Yes, there are some that need to be educated, and they will change, Jim Zumbo appears to be one, but many don't care and will give some to keep some. A true FUDD is worse than an anit-gunner, because they come across in the media as a gun lover that is "reasonable" and has "common sense."
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Good point! However, some don't care about the difference. Some are willing to sacrafice a Right to keep their pet interest. Yes, there are some that need to be educated, and they will change, Jim Zumbo appears to be one, but many don't care and will give some to keep some. A true FUDD is worse than an anit-gunner, because they come across in the media as a gun lover that is "reasonable" and has "common sense."
"reasonable" and has "common sense"..... That's the key!!
Now if we could show them the LIGHT!!
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Thanks jumbofrank for the clarification of the fudd.
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I have been trying to get this Second Amendment email campaign off the ground. For the life of me I can not get any type of help from 90% of the gun related forums owners i have asked or they want to charge me to fly a banner. Like I am trying to sell a product or something. Gun owners, most gun owners have never wrote their state reps or congressman and do not plan on it. Most hunters will not even put guns on their list of requirements for an election. There is 4 million registered NRA members and 80 million gun owners. Americans are reactive, not pro active. They need a reason to fight. Until then they do not want to be bothered. If you feel a little bit of an attitude in my post then you are right. It is like I am fighting a losing battle.
Sorry guys, I will turn the rant off now.
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I have been trying to get this Second Amendment email campaign off the ground. For the life of me I can not get any type of help from 90% of the gun related forums owners i have asked or they want to charge me to fly a banner. Like I am trying to sell a product or something. Gun owners, most gun owners have never wrote their state reps or congressman and do not plan on it. Most hunters will not even put guns on their list of requirements for an election. There is 4 million registered NRA members and 80 million gun owners. Americans are reactive, not pro active. They need a reason to fight. Until then they do not want to be bothered. If you feel a little bit of an attitude in my post then you are right. It is like I am fighting a losing battle.
Sorry guys, I will turn the rant off now.
No problem Landor, rants are the rage around here. Don't get me started on tactical pants! ;D
The websittes are run to make money, sad though that they want to charge for a non-profit. I know Gresham is hot for your idea - any chance he can find funding for the banners from his contacts and sources? Like the NRA? Or maybe an angel somewhere he knows of. Boy Scout training - find and use your resources effectively.
Good luck, and if you need to pass the hat, sing out, we'll see what we've got in the seat cushions.
Look also at the Day by Day cartoon site that MB has the the bottom of his blogs. Ad rates are cheap and it may widen the audience a bit.
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Gresham is not hot for my email campaign as far as I know, I did email them last week with no reply. He is involved in the Second Amendment March. That is not me and they have Ted Nugent. All I have is a forum and a will to make it happen.
Thanks for the ideas though. :)
Charlie
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Gresham is not hot for my email campaign as far as I know, I did email them last week with no reply. He is involved in the Second Amendment March. That is not me and they have Ted Nugent. All I have is a forum and a will to make it happen.
Thanks for the ideas though. :)
Charlie
Just so you know, My reps dread the sight of my E mail address and I just used part of my unemployment to renew my NRA for 2 more years.
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Gresham is not hot for my email campaign as far as I know, I did email them last week with no reply. He is involved in the Second Amendment March. That is not me and they have Ted Nugent. All I have is a forum and a will to make it happen.
Thanks for the ideas though. :)
Charlie
My bad, confused the 2. Now that you mention that, Gresham will most likely not go for your idea, too confusing with the March.
Try starting new threads specifically on the campaign, on the various fora instead of within an existing thread on a different or even related topic. Draw attention, use color, pictures, fonts, etc. where possible - like here. Provide links, etc.
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Just so you know, My reps dread the sight of my E mail address and I just used part of my unemployment to renew my NRA for 2 more years.
Pretty soon they'll be finding a job for you so you don't have so much time to send e-mails. ;D
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What ever works ;D