The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on March 09, 2009, 05:40:02 PM
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The local commercial reloader has probems. This is what I was told today.
David,
Gary told me that his standing order for primers has been cancelled by the company he's been dealing with for the past forever. Normally, he says, he gets 250,000 primers from CCC on the first of each month. When they didn't show up this month, he called his rep only to be told that they would not be honoring his standing order nor would they be placing him on back order. They were not, the rep said, honoring ANY of the outstanding orders for primers from any of the OEMs. Gary said he's been having a lot of trouble getting brass lately, but this latest issue has slammed him badly. He is down to the last of his primers and when they are gone, he's done.
This guy is pretty large. He supplies the local ranges, dealers and the cops. Here are my thoughts..
"Something is going on here that we are not privvy to or that we are not seeing or that we that don't have all the pieces to. It's getting near impossible to find ammo at retail or at wholesale. I am starting to think maybe we shouldn't shoot up any of what we have unless and until we can get something to replace it with."
What do y'all think?
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Around here you can get 9mm and 22cal, but thats about it. No 223, 40cal., or 45cal.. Maybe a box or two here and there. I havn't seen any 40 cal. for a couple of months. Gets kinda old driving from place to place looking for it. I've been keeping what i've built up, and shoot when I can find some extra.
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That's how I'm doing it. I've got my supply of .223, .45, and .270, it's my ammo I keep on hand at all times. The .270 I'm not to worried about, but .223 and .45 are getting harder to find, at least in central Texas, and what I can find is going up in price. So keep your stash safe and only go to the range with ammo you already have bought for the range, I don't shoot the stuff in my on hand ammo and then plan on replacing it. Cause I may not be able to find it at retail. On the plus side at Wally World in Austin they got Federal FMJ 100 packs .223 for forty bucks, still expensive but its cheaper than most others. Personally my on hand ammo is Winchester Rangers JSP .223, Winchester Ballistic Silver Tips .270, and Winchester Elites .45(the renamed Black Talons).
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Haz,
you read Michael's blog entry on it:
http://michaelbane.blogspot.com/2009/03/and-you-thought-it-was-just-me.html
I believe this is a ripple from the record gun sales the last few months. People need to be able to shoot what they just bought. The next stage might be people realizing they didn't need the gun, or bought the wrong gun, and there'll be a glut of used guns.
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I'm kinda upset cuz I burned up about 500 rounds of WWB in .45 ACP a few weekends ago. Since then I can't find anything to replace it without paying about 20-30% more for it. Should have seen it coming since our Wally World hasn't had any popular calibers in a few weeks.
I usually buy from my local guy anyway so the pricing I"m used too. I have plenty of JHP in the safe though. Once I found a load I (and my 1911) liked, I stocked up.
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The federal goverment just redid the entire VOC/ heavy metal regs in jan(was ordered years back under bush) It hit the chemical industry very hard, its why the price of almost every builind material shot way up. It could very well be this is fall out form that.
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Overload,
Yep, read that but this is a guy that has been doing business for many years and his suppliers are shutting him down cold! That does not sit well with me.
In this area (St Petersburg, FL) you cannot find any of the 'normal' calibers (9mm, .223, .45, .40, 357, .38, .308, 30-06) anywhere at any price. Even 12 guage is out unless you want 7.5 bird shot.
I am a good customer at a couple of places and they have nothing. I have talked to people that buy much more than me and they can't find any!
This is getting absurd.
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I think I see a way to make a profit!!! ;D ;D
I was just at Wally World at lunch, bought a box of .380 auto WWB, they had a bunch more. Left the .38Spcl on the shelf, may pick it up in a few days - we're supposed to get 10-20" of snow over the next 36 hours so I won't be going anywhere tomorrow.
Back to WW - they had other goodies, but some guys were there looking for 9mm and WW had none. No .45ACP either. Boxes of .40S&W though. And tons of 12ga everywhere. Gander had pallets of them last week.
If anyone want phone numbers, let me know.
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Path,
You may think yer jokin' but we need to start thinking ahead. If you see some good deals on 'normal' calibers buy it whether you shoot it or not. Then we can trade stuff amoug ourselves. It is getting real strange out there.
250,000 a month may not be huge to CCI (I don't know) but DAMN, if yer a long time customer with a standing order and they cut you off cold!?
That worries the hell out of me.
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I was working in another town today, not one of ours but being a nice guy so a neighbor could go on a two week cruise, and took advantage of the location to check out some reloading supplies and ammo. I need badly large pistol primers, powder, and factory .45acp. I also wouldn't mind a few other calibers and other supplies.
The shelves at all three shops are bare. All three, and I deal a lot with and trust the people at two of the three, claim that most of their problems come from huge customer demand. They claim it is like nothing they have seen in their careers, and some of them have been at this for over 30 years. They say as soon as a shipment comes in the shelves empty. The longest they can keep anything is if it arrives on a Monday, because Friday - Sunday bring the rush.
The only thing they had that I would have considered was four 250 count yellow box umc .38 spl. However, that is not a main caliber for me right now, so I didn't part with the $280. They did also have green box umc .223, $11.99/20, that they weren't even unpacking from the cases, because the expect people to take it as is.
I've decided that I am just going to go on-line and put in some orders for reloading stuff and wait. I hate doing powder that way because of shipping costs, but ... :'(
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I try to buy some ammo or components every week. My rule of thumb is buy more each week than I shoot.
Last week it was 8# of H-110. This week will be a pound of H-335. Can't pass a 9mm display without taking at least one box. 9mm is the only one I don't reload....(well that and .30 carbine).
Since the shelves are cleaned out you can find some of the older stuff the dealers have had in stock, hidden behind everything else. Got a box of 50 Nosler .338 bullets (200gr) for $10.
Some dealers are NOT getting a lot of .22lr stuff. So I'm also going easy on my .22lr and .17hm2 stock.
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My Wally world today had some 40 cal and 223 and not much else and they had an note on the case limit to 2 boxes of each caliber but no ammol
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I walked proudly out of Bass Pro a couple of months ago with a new 45acp cabide die set. Yes, I dusted off the reloading press that's been put away for the last five years. Upon unpacking th press I warmed it up by loading some .38 spcl and then on to try out the new .45 dies set. But wait...NO PRIMERS...ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!
I too am picking up a box of any standard pistol caliber and .223 and .308 that I run onto here in the Dallas area and anywhere else I might be.
No matter what the reason, simple demand or some sort of conspiracy, you'd be foolish to pass up buying opportunities.
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STOCK UP! THIS MAY SOUND A BIT CRAZY, BUT DO A ROUGH ESTIMATE ON WHAT YOU SHOOT IN A YEAR AND TRY TO BUY 10 TIMES THAT AMOUNT. I AM ON A BACK ORDER LIST A MILE LONG FOR PRIMERS, BULK 5.56, 9MM YOU NAME IT.. IT JUST HIT HOME LAST WEEK WHEN I CALLED 6 OF THE LARGEST AMMO DISTRIBUTORS IN THE COUNTRY AND COULD NOT ORDER ANY .22 AMMO BESIDES $5+ A BOX TARGET AMMO! WE ARE ALL JUST SEEING THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG HERE, THINGS WILL GET BETTER, BUT THEY ARE GOING TO GET A HELL OF A LOT WORSE FIRST, AND THIS IS GOING TO LAST AWHILE. AMMO MAY VERY WELL BE THE CURRENCY OF THE NEXT MILLENNIUM. BUY IT EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. IT'S A GREAT INVESTMENT, IT IS NOT GETTING ANY CHEAPER AND IT DOESN'T GO BAD..
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I will admit this is odd but I think we can chalk it up to three factors. 1) Record gunsales will equal record ammo sales, at least short term. Since most of those were for defense/tactical stuff these calibers being more scarce would follow. 2)Hoarding. Lots of folks are going out and getting .556 etc by the case. 3) a lot of gun ranges are requiring you to buy range ammo for insurance purposes. It is in the interest of the industry to make sure they don't run out, and I would expect they would get priority. I haven't asked my local range if they're having problems, but I will.
fightingquaker13
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STOCK UP! THIS MAY SOUND A BIT CRAZY, BUT DO A ROUGH ESTIMATE ON WHAT YOU SHOOT IN A YEAR AND TRY TO BUY 10 TIMES THAT AMOUNT. I AM ON A BACK ORDER LIST A MILE LONG FOR PRIMERS, BULK 5.56, 9MM YOU NAME IT.. IT JUST HIT HOME LAST WEEK WHEN I CALLED 6 OF THE LARGEST AMMO DISTRIBUTORS IN THE COUNTRY AND COULD NOT ORDER ANY .22 AMMO BESIDES $5+ A BOX TARGET AMMO! WE ARE ALL JUST SEEING THE TIP OF THE ICEBERG HERE, THINGS WILL GET BETTER, BUT THEY ARE GOING TO GET A HELL OF A LOT WORSE FIRST, AND THIS IS GOING TO LAST AWHILE. AMMO MAY VERY WELL BE THE CURRENCY OF THE NEXT MILLENNIUM. BUY IT EVERY CHANCE YOU GET. IT'S A GREAT INVESTMENT, IT IS NOT GETTING ANY CHEAPER AND IT DOESN'T GO BAD..
... and THIS is why the rest of us can't find ammo.
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... and THIS is why the rest of us can't find ammo.
Not just him, but look back at what alfsuave and I said. I'm shooting way more than I used to and can't even replace what I use. We aren't the only old ones out here doing it and there is all the new. USPSA and ICORE have both stated record new memberships over the last year, which makes me think other shooting groups are seeing it as well.
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Not just him, but look back at what alfsuave and I said. I'm shooting way more than I used to and can't even replace what I use. We aren't the only old ones out here doing it and there is all the new. USPSA and ICORE have both stated record new memberships over the last year, which makes me think other shooting groups are seeing it as well.
Shooting more and buying enough to have on hand (like a couple month supply), I'd call OK. Buying a 10-year supply, I'd call excessive.
I'd buy a 10-year supply of soup and camping supplies before I'd buy a 10-year supply of target ammunition. If society as we know it ends, how much time do you plan to spend at the range?
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YOU WILL BE AT THE RANGE LESS. THAT AMMO WILL BE LOOKING LIKE A GOOD IDEA WHEN YOUR SOUP RUNS OUT AND YOU NEED TO HUNT FOR FOOD. 8)
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Shooting more and buying enough to have on hand (like a couple month supply), I'd call OK. Buying a 10-year supply, I'd call excessive.
I'd buy a 10-year supply of soup and camping supplies before I'd buy a 10-year supply of target ammunition. If society as we know it ends, how much time do you plan to spend at the range?
"If society as we know it ends" the range is the last place any of us will be using our ammo. If that is what someone is planning for food, shelter, ammo, first aid, fuel ... (in no particular order) are all on the list of needs.
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Shooting more and buying enough to have on hand (like a couple month supply), I'd call OK. Buying a 10-year supply, I'd call excessive.
I'd buy a 10-year supply of soup and camping supplies before I'd buy a 10-year supply of target ammunition. If society as we know it ends, how much time do you plan to spend at the range?
None, but cartridges are easier to transport for trade than turnips and such and will probably be worth more.
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... and THIS is why the rest of us can't find ammo.
You snooze you Loose ;D ;D ;D
I guess it determines where you live in the country. 9mm and 45auto are still on the shelves almost everywhere in San Antonio, TX.
The strangest thing I've come across, was I when to Sportsman's Warehouse yesterday and they were almost completely sold out of pistols and rifles.
I'm sure glad I've been stocking up for the past year. I also chose pistols and rifles that shot the same caliber round.
:o Just think a few months ago Wal-mart sold 100rd box of 40s&w for $17.99 and now it's selling for $28.99 IF you can find them. :o
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Just got back from the "Things that go Bang" superstore, aka my neighborhood FFL...my thoughts on ammo are OUCH!!!!
40 bucks a box for WWB 100/count.....bought three boxes..... ;D More next week and his supply is plentiful. He has no supplier problems, YET....
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YOU WILL BE AT THE RANGE LESS. THAT AMMO WILL BE LOOKING LIKE A GOOD IDEA WHEN YOUR SOUP RUNS OUT AND YOU NEED TO HUNT FOR FOOD. 8)
you think you can carry and store 10 years of ammunition if you're living on only what you can hunt?
I'd be more likely to invest in a good bow at that point. A pointy stick arrow might be a little more sustainable in the long term.
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If Opec wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do? Cut back production! Demand goes up, prices go up... More money in their pockets! "Whew hoo! Order up the gold leaf toilet paper for the executive bathrooms!"
Now change one word in that statement:
If Cerberus wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do?... Get the picture?
While its marketed under MANY, MANY names, Winchester, and Remington produce a LARGE portion of the ammo circulating in the world today. Doesnt Cerberus own them both? (Along with who knows what all else)
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If Opec wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do? Cut back production! Demand goes up, prices go up... More money in their pockets! "Whew hoo! Order up the gold leaf toilet paper for the executive bathrooms!"
Now change one word in that statement:
If Cerberus wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do?... Get the picture?
While its marketed under MANY, MANY names, Winchester, and Remington produce a LARGE portion of the ammo circulating in the world today. Doesnt Cerberus own them both? (Along with who knows what all else)
True Badger, but what can you do about it? It's just supply and demand, simple economics and the heartbeat of capitalism. You can choose not to participate. There is no law against owning more than one company or making a profit. Now, if the price of .45 ammo went to say, 80-90 bucks a box with no real cause, then I have a problem!
I remember when gas was 19 cents a gallon, could fill my gas guzzling 64 Impala with loose change I found under the seats but today at 2 to 4 bucks a gulp, I gotta get to work.......One is a luxury, the other is a necessity...
Good thought, keep it up... ;)
P.S. What part of MI you from?
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you think you can carry and store 10 years of ammunition if you're living on only what you can hunt?
I'd be more likely to invest in a good bow at that point. A pointy stick arrow might be a little more sustainable in the long term.
In NJ that will probably be all that's left to you. As long as you have the proper license and permission slip.
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If Opec wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do? Cut back production! Demand goes up, prices go up... More money in their pockets! "Whew hoo! Order up the gold leaf toilet paper for the executive bathrooms!"
Now change one word in that statement:
If Cerberus wants to bring in a few extra bucks for a given period what do they do?... Get the picture?
While its marketed under MANY, MANY names, Winchester, and Remington produce a LARGE portion of the ammo circulating in the world today. Doesnt Cerberus own them both? (Along with who knows what all else)
Doesn't work, to many other Companies like Fiocchi, Blackhills etc.
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you think you can carry and store 10 years of ammunition if you're living on only what you can hunt?
I'd be more likely to invest in a good bow at that point. A pointy stick arrow might be a little more sustainable in the long term.
Well in the next 10 years... God forbid...you might have to hunt "what you can not eat".... And please don't blame "me" and those that plan ahead and stock up ( for whatever reasons) for you not being able to buy - find ammo. Should have started buying sooner I guess. We don't have a shooting range closer than 120 miles. Never have gone to one, but we live in the small cow town country, and not too often do we just go out and shoot more than 100 rounds of anything.
I know people ..lots of people.. who have a ton of ammo in their survival boxes. We have alot stock piled but not near what some have. Do I begrudge them that ? Heck no. Nor do I get all grunchy with those who were smarter than me and bought bulk seed and corn and wheat when it was cheaper...and put it in permanent packing barrels.
The thing is , none of us know how bad it is going to get. Personally I think I and my family are setting in one of the better parts of the country if the poop hits the end of the pipe. Anyone who is not living in the city or around one and used to doing things 'the old way' is better off if things get ugly. We can survive..without what the city makes most dependent on.
But bullets (for protection of yourself, your property and for hunting food) water and a way to make fire is top on my list of things I HAVE to have.
You can have your pointy stick... I'll take my guns and ammo thank you very much. :)
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In NJ that will probably be all that's left to you. As long as you have the proper license and permission slip.
Better stock up on Beetle Spins too ;)
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Need to order .45 cal and .357 mold from Lee, I Have a good supply of lead on hand, Just need to lay in a supply of primers and powder.
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Better stock up on Beetle Spins too ;)
Don't worry... Beetle Spins I have.. and a couple tackle boxes chuck full of my "lucky lures"..
Be afraid big fishy's.. be very afraid.... ;D ;D
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I looked at Olin corporation's (makers of Winchester ammo) 10K for 2008 (their annual filing with the SEC) and I noticed they mention they have shifted their production focus more to satisfy government and law enforcement demand. This leads me to believe that we are competing, in part, with the feds and local law enforcement. When these factors are added in with those already cited in this topic, it starts to make sense why we have a shortage.
I do believe there are many who went out and bought guns out of fear (justified at that) but really do not have a commitment to our community like we do. Like Overload stated, in the next few years there will probably be a glut of used guns on the market so it will be a great buying opportunity for us but bad news for manufacturers. For the future of ammo, let's think about the next step. It would not surprise me in the next few days or months, we will see ammo and reloading components being sold on sites like Gun Broker or Craig's List at wildly inflated prices. Then the crash in the ammo market will come, probably later this year or next year, which will present another buying opportunity. How do I know all of this? I am making some educated guesses based upon my experience in the real estate and stock markets. People tend to do what people do no matter what the product is that is in short supply or that is being bid up. One thing that will also bring this down is if personal consumption starts to drop, or real personal income starts to fall. With credit cards at the max and no raise from the company, people will have to make cuts to their discretionary spending. For the people who are speculating in this market, the "day traders" if you will, will be the first to be forced to the sidelines.
I guess what I'm saying is to stay the course and buy wisely. Like I said in another thread, I have learned some valuable lessons from this. I learned I love my guns and shooting so much that I am going to make sure that I am always able to continue with this part of my life. For me it's not just a hobby, it is a part of who I am.
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I don't know if it will be a wash of used guns, as many people I know (a lot in the UK) understand that guns are important, but think it is just fun to go shoot them. I bought both my guns in the past six months, I won't ever part with them.
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From today's Tacticalwire ( www.thetacticalwire.com )
Editor's Notebook: Where's the Ammo?
By Rich Grassi
On Tuesday, we received a writer email asking about what he called "the current ammo shortage." He specifically asked about rumors that factories had cut back on production, mentioning Remington by name. Our reader went on to state that "competition for raw material should be down given the world economic slowdown, yet prices continue to rise and availability is shrinking."
We respond to our readers, even if some of the ground had been covered before - we get new subscribers regularly and he likely hadn't seen our previous entry on the "why is ammo scarce" issue.
Before this email arrived, I was having breakfast with firearms expert, trainer, armorer and philosopher Mike Rafferty. He is one who always has an eye out for ammo, particularly now.
"There's buzz on the internet forums that won't go away," he said. "The rumor is that ammo is scarce because of increased law enforcement training."
I snorted. Training in law enforcement? Who are they kidding?
"Well, NYPD is giving fifty rounds apiece of carbine training to an increasing number of cops - newly graduated recruits, I hear - who aren't in the ESU." ESU is the Emergency Services Unit, the precursor to SWAT, an outfit that has broader responsibilities than normal SWAT outfits.
Fifty rounds of carbine shooting isn't "training." That said, it's more trigger time than they would have had. If it hadn't been for Mumbai, they wouldn't have trained up more cops on the M4-style carbine. Still, when you have thousands of cops, 50 rounds a head starts to add up.
I asked Mike what he thought. "People are hoarding. When they find ammo anywhere, they snap it up before someone else gets it."
The increase in demand causes increases in price.
I sent a note around to the ammunition industry asking the question our reader asked.
Here are a few comments from Remington - specifically from John Chisnall, Director - Brand Management, Ammunition.
"Strong 2008 4th quarter hunting seasons and "putting food on the table" in these difficult economic times have driven some of the strong demand being experienced in hunting ammunition categories.
"Regarding supply, our factory is working overtime and doing the best they can to address the demand.
"With regards to pricing, costs have stabilized as commodity prices and energy prices have stabilized, and pricing has decreased in some categories despite strong shooter demand."
That's the official, on-the-record statement. We appreciate Mr. Chisnall taking time to address the issue.
Another ammunition industry insider stated that a company he's involved with is making more ammo now than they ever have. That company is experiencing some delays in getting certain supplies but runs hard to catch up.
Prices have gone up on "black rifles" and handguns meant for defensive work, but no one seems to hit the internet forums with that . . .
The ammo shortage situation? It's partially fed by reporting on shortages and self fulfilling prophecy, no doubt. If shooters hear that ammo is short on supply, they'll snag more than they need, hedging against future shortages.
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I have a friend that I worked with last month that lives out near Rapid City, SD. He is an electrician and says that Black Hills is a steady job for him. They are expanding and adding more equipment all the time. Doesn't sound like they are slowing down at all.
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Haz, I know from watching the other shooting show on Wed. evening that CCI produces 4 million .22's per day...that's 20 million in a 5 day week. If they can do that, they and the other companies making primers can do at least that production. If half goes into loaded ammo and the other half to bulk sales that should be plenty for the general public!
JMHO
Richard
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Ellis,
ya got to think about military and leo as wll. But I still think that this is a false shortage caused by; 1. new customers brought on by BHO, 2. hoarding, and 3. short sightedness on mfg part.
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Right after Y2K scare was over I bought several tins of 7.62x39 dirt cheap from a guy who bought a bunch up. If I remember right ammo was scarce then too.
Maybe I'll give him a call in a couple months................. ;)
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I worked in a FFL right before y2k... people where buying cases of buck shot. I can't tell you the exact ammounts that were sold, but in one weekend we went thru 3 full pallets of buck shot.
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(http://www.thetaoofmakingmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/images/office-space-printer.jpg)
Wasnt Y2K a computer glitch scare? Maybe number 6 shot just isnt enough to take down some of the faster processors!!! ;D
It'd be WAY cool with me if this time next year the shops are flooded with cheap, pre-owned, unfired guns and stacks of ammo!
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Shooting wire (www.shootingwire.com) For 03-13
Noises from around the country
Last Friday, we listed several pro-gun, anti-gun control events taking place across the country. At that time, we had no way of knowing that more than two-dozen people would be dead from gun violence in a pair of horrible incidents.
On Sunday, a deranged gunman walked into a church in Illinois and gunned down the pastor. When his gun jammed, he was attacked by two worshippers and subdued - after cutting both of them and being very seriously injured himself in the ensuing struggle.
On Tuesday, Michael McClendon, 28, went on a shooting rampage in Geneva, Alabama, killing ten people before a 24-mile assault on his family and former workers ended with him killing himself after a shootout with police.
Wednesday, a Germany boy scarcely out of high school in Winnenden took a handgun and killed fifteen people, including 12 former schoolmates, before killing himself after a gunfight with police.
These three incidents, 25 innocent people were killed with firearms. Surprisingly, there are not mass demonstrations across America for an immediate ban on guns because of these acts of violence.
Is it a sign of some long overdue common sense regarding firearms?
Don't bet on it. Instead, it seems to be a recognition by the far-left that a frontal assault on firearms is a bad idea. Today, it seems, they're far more focused on making it tough on ammunition. After all, without ammo a firearm is a pretty poor excuse for any other sort of tool.
Also this week, National Park Service announced it was going to ban lead ammunition and fishing sinkers from its lands. That ban would include National Preserves, National Recreation Areas, and National Rivers, more than 20 million acres of land.
As you can imagine, sportsmen across the country are hopping mad about the proposed ban. And they're working to make their displeasure known. The National Shooting Sports Foundation issued a critical statement, with NSSF President Steve Sanetti calling the NPS decision "arbitrary, over-reactive and not based on science."
It was. But it was also another unleaded shot across the bow of the firearms industry. As has been reported a number of times by The Shooting Wire, anti gun forces have realized that the firearms they so much want to ban represent one of the areas where average citizens are more than willing to push-back at encroachments on their freedom.
In response, they have changed their tactics, moving against ammunition. Unfortunately, while they have very thin scientific proofs to back their claims of lead from spent ammunition being responsible for the death of all sorts of wildlife, they have, once again, taken the perceptual high ground. After all, no one is going to argue that lead - in significant quantities - is a bad thing. Disregard the fact that there must be "significant quantities" ingested for serious damage. That's lost in the emotional rhetoric that banning lead is "to protect the future of wildlife and human beings."
If the anti-gun advocates were really trying to protect the future, they'd be better served trying to do something to get the country back on its economic feet. Instead, they're once again stepping up their attacks on guns and gun owners. This time, however, they're putting their many setbacks to good use -battling from a moral high ground that makes gun owners and anglers battling for lead appear to be something less than rational, reasonable or caring with their insistence that "there's no concrete proof."
There isn't. But that doesn't matter. It is, as per the norm, a battle of perceptions. Emotion trumps logic in all but a very few situations - and this isn't one of them.
In the meantime, we're seeing hoarding of ammunition continue across the country. Despite assurances from the ammunition makers that they are making ammo as rapidly as is possible, several calibers remain tough to find nationally.
Our unscientific research says that the ammo isn't being used for increased police training as has been claimed. Training, unfortunately, has been curtailed because of budget cuts and short supplies of ammo to law enforcement agencies.
Instead, we're hearing more and more anecdotal reports that make it seem that some ammunition buyers are treating it like an appreciating commodity. Believing the supplies may continue to be short - or outlawed entirely, speculators are snapping ammo - in some instances, before it can even be put onto the shelves.
If that's accurate, the shortage of ammo might be a self-perpetuating condition - at least as long as people continue to hoard certain calibers. If that turns out to be the case, these speculators would do well to remember that there are powerful politicians out there who are seeking to have lead ammo banned. Not to have the manufacturing of lead ammo controlled - or stopped, but to try and get lead in ammunition and fishing sinkers outlawed.
If that's allowed to happen, it will be yet another example of the government killing an industry in order to make a political point.
That is becoming a bit tiresome to many Americans. It may be a complication to our lives in the short-term, but it may represent yet another of those acts of governmental incursion into private lives that will eventually reach the point that the too-silent majority will tell the government "enough".
From largely symbolic protest gestures like sending tea bags to Washington to a planned Second Amendment March on Washington to protest government intrusions into our lives, it could be a very short leap to civil disobedience.
Already there are a number of groups forming to mobilize citizens and at least one movement has been formed in the military to inform leaders that soldiers will uphold their oath of office to protect the country from threats "foreign and domestic" -including government officials ordering soldiers into actions of any sort against citizens.
If the financial turmoil continues, the downward economic spiral will continue, further depressing industry and agitating law-abiding citizens already resentful of the federal government's insistence on trying to spend the nation out of its economic doldrums.
We appear to be hurtling toward one of those defining moments in American history, and the country seems to be deeply divided philosophically. If that's true, it wouldn't take too-large a spark to ignite a powder keg of resentment.
How an administration listens to the people over the next few weeks may have a lot to do beginning an economic recovery - or completely cratering the economy - and our country.
If they're going to make the right decision, it Is up to each of us to help send them a crystal-clear message that we're done with being ignored.
More on that ahead. In the meantime, maintain your situational awareness.
--Jim Shepherd
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(http://www.thetaoofmakingmoney.com/wp-content/uploads/images/office-space-printer.jpg)
Wasnt Y2K a computer glitch scare?
You might be too young to remember this, but Y2K was a very real problem with very serious consequences if it was not addressed. The reason I know this to be true, is I worked in the industry fixing these problems for nearly two years before it received any heavy media attention in 1999.
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My ex Brother in Law was a Y2K consultant as well.
Had the problem not been addressed the entire national infrastructure would have collapsed. The fact that it became a non event is entirely do to the tech industry taking early action.
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My ex Brother in Law was a Y2K consultant as well.
Had the problem not been addressed the entire national infrastructure would could have collapsed. The fact that it became a non event is entirely do to the tech industry taking early action.
Fixed it.
It was a real problem, and to this day I have never heard precisely how widespread the problem was. But you don't have companies like Citi spending hundreds of millions of dollars world-wide to a fix a "maybe it's a problem" problem. And Tom is absolutely right - the remediation did prevent some problems. One of the worst violators was Microsoft which would not certify any of its software as compliant until they spent a ton and made patches available for Windows, Office and the rest.
There was a lot of money spent - and made - from 1994 on. It just happened during the so-called dot-com bubble, so it was hidden. The Dept. of Commerce even stated in '98 (IIRC) that IT was the engine driving the country's economy, much like railroads were at the turn of the 20th Century.
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Fixed it.
It was a real problem, and to this day I have never heard precisely how widespread the problem was. But you don't have companies like Citi spending hundreds of millions of dollars world-wide to a fix a "maybe it's a problem" problem. And Tom is absolutely right - the remediation did prevent some problems. One of the worst violators was Microsoft which would not certify any of its software as compliant until they spent a ton and made patches available for Windows, Office and the rest.
There was a lot of money spent - and made - from 1994 on. It just happened during the so-called dot-com bubble, so it was hidden. The Dept. of Commerce even stated in '98 (IIRC) that IT was the engine driving the country's economy, much like railroads were at the turn of the 20th Century.
I know we're off topic here, but you are dead on. And pundits to this day, do not understand why the tech sector was so depressed after Y2K. They see where the bubble burst but they don't understand for several years afterward that the overall level of IT spending dropped sharply because most companies had spent several years worth of their capital budget on these fixes and weren't in the market to do more.
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Clearly nine years later there are plenty of sore sphincters remaining from the incident! Overusing your usual "I'm older than you so I'm smarter" tactic a bit much when we're talking about 2000 arent you? I guess if its all you got, You go girl!
I more than suspect the majority of those reading this were smart enough to purchase at least one weapon, along with an adequet supply of ammunition that they trust to defend their homes, family's, & right to freedom with YEARS ago.
Sure its great to have a "surplus" that could be shared with family, neighbors, friends in times of peril. And many of those reading this have exactly that. So shouldnt most here be SUPER EXCITED that former left wingers, and John Q. Public are out there buying up their first guns and ammunition right now? Yeah, its a short term inconvienience, BUT. "Safety in numbers" applies! The more people that own guns, the more people that wont want them taken away!!!
RETARDS stop busting on each other! You claim to be wise and all knowing... Try lending helpfull advise, information, even a friendly joke once in a while. Stop worrying about showing off, and be happy for the gun and ammo shortage! "Safety in numbers" remember?
Why do I bother... Oh yeah. "Safety in numbers". ;)
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Clearly nine years later there are plenty of sore sphincters remaining from the incident! Overusing your usual "I'm older than you so I'm smarter" tactic a bit much when we're talking about 2000 arent you? I guess if its all you got, You go girl!
I more than suspect the majority of those reading this were smart enough to purchase at least one weapon, along with an adequet supply of ammunition that they trust to defend their homes, family's, & right to freedom with YEARS ago.
Sure its great to have a "surplus" that could be shared with family, neighbors, friends in times of peril. And many of those reading this have exactly that. So shouldnt most here be SUPER EXCITED that former left wingers, and John Q. Public are out there buying up their first guns and ammunition right now? Yeah, its a short term inconvienience, BUT. "Safety in numbers" applies! The more people that own guns, the more people that wont want them taken away!!!
RETARDS stop busting on each other! You claim to be wise and all knowing... Try lending helpfull advise, information, even a friendly joke once in a while. Stop worrying about showing off, and be happy for the gun and ammo shortage! "Safety in numbers" remember?
Why do I bother... Oh yeah. "Safety in numbers". ;)
Thou doth protest to loudly. Are you old enough to own a hand gun ?
Besides, it's pretty much a given that the average voter has a memory span of about 3-6 months.
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I have actually quit shooting for the winter, too cold and I dont shoot indoors, I have been keeping up on the supply and found ,(here anyway) that .380 and 9mm are scarce but mostly everything else is available. and prices are about 30.00 higher per 500 rds of 762x39 and .45 , also for 223 and .40 you can still find ammo on line .
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Oh for god sakes. I'm 38, served 6 years and went to the desert, at present own something around 20 rifles, shotguns, handguns combined... I'm sure now anyone thats 39 or older, was in the service longer, or has more guns than me will surely brag all day long now. Have fun with that! Yes you are all mighty and your ego runs far and wide encompassing all in its path. Whats with the ego trips here?!?! That many are that desperate to prove something? What is it anyway??? Start a thread called "why I'm better than you" and move on!
Back on subject: Ammo isnt the only thing in shortage. I'm supprised to see the lack of comments on availability of loading supplies.
One new thing to consider with all these shortages is something I picked up on at Best Buy a few months ago. Talking to a store manager, he said they were sold out of everything because they use credit to purchase from their suppliers. Even though they have good credit the suppliers are afraid to send out large orders in fear of not getting paid. It could be gun shops, even the size of Midway are seeing a pinch from suppliers in the same way. Didnt somebody post something about Sportmansguide closeing down a bunch of places? So maybe there is some threat to even suppliers in this industry getting paid.
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Just a quick thought...........Isn't it ironic that the ones that hate our guns and ammunition the most have been the best free advertisement for everyone to go out and buy up everything? I can't keep enough in stock, and in my opinion the more people have guns and the more ammo they have.. means the more that will be able to stand up when and if the time comes to test their use. I agree with Badgersmilk... be happy that "our numbers" are growing.
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Oh for god sakes. I'm 38, served 6 years and went to the desert, at present own something around 20 rifles, shotguns, handguns combined... I'm sure now anyone thats 39 or older, was in the service longer, or has more guns than me will surely brag all day long now. Have fun with that! Yes you are all mighty and your ego runs far and wide encompassing all in its path. Whats with the ego trips here?!?! That many are that desperate to prove something? What is it anyway??? Start a thread called "why I'm better than you" and move on!
Badger,
I did not see any ego trips in this thread. I saw one say 'you MAY NOT be old enough to remember...." and the a few others with actual knowledge support the fact that Y2K was more than myth.
You came back with the 'retard' post and then was gently called on that as it is not something we do around here and often shows a lack of maturity due to age.
So, take a deep breath and realize that there are members who are experts in most any field you can name. One of the true wonders of the family we have grown here.
Back on topic.
I posted another article here today that some what backs up both the 'new owners' and 'hording' theories. Personally I think it is a confluence of both plus others such as enhance LEO purchases.
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Quote from Badgersmilk,
One new thing to consider with all these shortages is something I picked up on at Best Buy a few months ago. Talking to a store manager, he said they were sold out of everything because they use credit to purchase from their suppliers. Even though they have good credit the suppliers are afraid to send out large orders in fear of not getting paid. It could be gun shops, even the size of Midway are seeing a pinch from suppliers in the same way. Didnt somebody post something about Sportmansguide closeing down a bunch of places? So maybe there is some threat to even suppliers in this industry getting paid.
Could very well be a component of whats happening, along with a reluctance by Management to get caught with a large inventory when the bubble bursts. Most Corporations (and most smaller companies) in industry have been working for years to lower on hand inventory because it takes up space. to the bean counters space = money, (Property taxes, insurance, facility expenses) most companies nowadays try to keep about 1 weeks inventory on hand.
I was working in Medical device manufacturing, you would think that was the most secure type of manufacturing you could find, people either use our product or DIE. I got laid off because our customers are reducing inventories even further so are not submitting new orders.
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Cat, Touche, point well taken.
I second tom's comment too. I was in automotive. Some of those plants are operating with as little as a four hour lead time... NO inventory. The parts left the vendors doors four hours before they were to be used on the lines!!!
"JIT Manufacturing": Just In Time
STINKS Sportmans guide is struggleing... My last ammo order was from them on-line at a better price than Midway or anybody! Clearing shelves I guess. :-\
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Cat, Touche, point well taken.
I second tom's comment too. I was in automotive. Some of those plants are operating with as little as a four hour lead time... NO inventory. The parts left the vendors doors four hours before they were to be used on the lines!!!
"JIT Manufacturing": Just In Time
STINKS Sportmans guide is struggleing... My last ammo order was from them on-line at a better price than Midway or anybody! Clearing shelves I guess. :-\
You and Tom have a good point there. One I didn't consider and I'm in transportation so I KNOW about JIT. DUH! on me.
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Cat, Touche, point well taken.
I second tom's comment too. I was in automotive. Some of those plants are operating with as little as a four hour lead time... NO inventory. The parts left the vendors doors four hours before they were to be used on the lines!!!
"JIT Manufacturing": Just In Time
STINKS Sportmans guide is struggleing... My last ammo order was from them on-line at a better price than Midway or anybody! Clearing shelves I guess. :-\
Not Sportsman's Guide, it's Sportsman's Warehouse, the retail chain. The sale of the chain of stores actually started earlier last year, maybe someone saw writing on the wall, more likely it was a "this is how we best expand" line of thought. It was the economy that killed the buyout, resulting in 23 stores closing and a dozen or so getting picked up by the Canadian company.
JIT has been around for some time. And it ain't the space the bean counters hate - it's the paid for (cash or credit, it's still a liability) of all that stuff just sitting on a self waiting to get used. But the Best Buy angle is one I had not considered.