The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: dj454 on March 12, 2009, 10:08:49 PM
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I have a problem with my 10/22 and I hope some of you may be able to help me. My 10/22 was built in 1981 but I only purchased it a couple of years ago from a pawn shop and I have no idea how many rounds have been ran through it. I started shooting it in a rimfire match back in November and I keep having problems with jamming. I bought some new magazines and it helped but it still does it. It will fail to clear the last round before the bolt shuts. It feeds the next round and closes on the spent brass. When I am practicing its not that big a deal but in the match which is timed it sucks. I am running standard velocity Federal ammuntion. My wifes new 10/22 runs it perfectly and never jams. I have tried other ammo but the problem continues. I am wondering if the recoil spring is worn out. I don't have a lot of money to throw at this thing and there are upgrades I would like to make as I can afford it. Any help would be appreciated.
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This may sound like an odd question...But, Have you cleaned and lightly oiled it recently? .22 rimfires are one of the dirtiest shooting round known to man.The 10/22 is a bullet proof(no pun intended) design that will work properly for years with the correct care.
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"Stove pipe" jam.
Sounds like the extractor claw is worn, or not moving freely. Could simply be dirt. Worst case scenerio a new claw is about $10.
Use a pick to slide the plunger behind the claw toward the back of the bolt as far as you can. Wiggle the claw a little and it'll fall right out. Now CAREFULLY move the plunger forward and relieve tension on the little spring hidden in there. Not likely its clean enough in there to let the spring go flying if you havent been in there before. But you dont want to loose those little parts! Re-assembly is the reverse procedure. To clean in there pull some of the cotton off the end of a Q-tip (about half of it), soak the remaining cotton with cleaner and insert it into the little hole the spring and plunger came out of. Then spray in there with compressed air if its available. LIGHTLY oil all parts!
The claw should have a nice SHARP, square edge that hooks onto the brass and pulls it free from the chamber. If not. Dump it and get a new one. Power Customs offers both tool steel, or titainium. HIGHLY RECOMMEND!
So long as you use at LEAST standard LR ammo it wouldnt have anything to do with the recoil spring unless the spring and rod, or slides in the receiver are so dirty the bolt isnt going all the way back allowing the ejector to hit the brass... If thats it... >:( >:( >:(
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I go with the others on the good cleaning for a start. Since it worked before and your wife's newer one works the ammo should have sufficient power to cycle. However, crudding up could cause an issue. My experience, take this advice as value equal to what you are paying for it, is that a weak spring would cause more issues with the bolt not closing completely as opposed to not ejecting.
Bottom line advice from me would be to do a complete cleaning stripping it down all the way.
Good luck!
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My vote is for the extractor being the problem........ You should first start by trying a very thorough cleaning...... try Break Free CLP....... saturate everything metal with it and scrub it really well..... then leave it alone (Dont wipe all the cleaner off -- it needs to soak) and come back to it in 2 or 3 days.
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+ 10 on the C L P ;D ;D ;D
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Let us know what you find... A little strange for a 10/22 to do something like this.
I'm guessing its still an all original gun (barrel, internals, and such?) I've seen 10/22's that were modified to slam fire full auto stove pipe a lot too. NOT A GOOD / SAFE IDEA! If its something like this you can get replacement parts from Midway, Ruger direct, heck, even ebay!
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I don't think it is the cleanliness. I am very anal about my gun maintenance. I always disassemble and clean every part of my firearms after every time out at the range. I also keep them lubed but not too much especially on rimfires I learned that a long time ago. I will tear it down and compare the extractor with my wifes and see. Thanks guys.
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Take the complete bolt out of your wifes and swap it, the headspace is on the barrel, not the bolt so is plenty safe.
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M25. I like your idea there about him swapping bolts. Will prove out the extractor issue right away!
Headspace is determined by the bolt on a 10/22. I think, you may be thinking "headspace" is the distance between the bullet and the threads. Headspace is the distance from the face of the chamber / barrel, or the part of the bolt that touches this surface when in battery, to the back of the inlet on the bolt where the case will sit when the round is in the chamber. You should see about .046" on this measurement on the average 10/22. .043" is MINIMUM for a .22 rimfire.
Sorry if I did a horrible job trying to explain that all. It's REALLY hard without being able to show pictures or the parts... I'll see what photos I can find and post em.
The bolts should interchange without a problem though. And it will help A LOT in finding your problem. Great idea!
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I know, bad picture... But I had to take my own. Couldnt find a good one. Thanks go to my daughter for holding the parts.
My terminology is all wrong! What I'm calling the "face of the chamber" in the picture IS the "bolt face". The surface I'm calling the bolt face is???? ANYBODY???? The "shoulder of the bolt"? I have no idea. Help here?
10/22 Headspace:
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000863.jpg?t=1236996924)
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I've worked on 10/22's that came between .049", and .0445". 46-48 is average. Setting at .046" - .045" headspace will leave you PLENTY of room for wear, a little dirt, and all quaility's of ammo. Though some will, I wouldnt go below .044" on any gun because wear will shorten it over enough time and "minimum is .043". You'd better check your ammo pretty well at .425" some guys set it at! Below .045" I dont believe you honestly see any improvement in accuracy... Not worth it anyway.
(http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww40/BigCheeseStick/P1000864.jpg?t=1236997734)
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I believe I found the problem. After comparing the 2 extractors you can definatly see the wear on my extractor. Just to look at it by itself it is hard to see but when compared to the new one you can definatly see a difference. I will replace my extractor and retest. Thanks for the help guys.
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$10.99, Scroll down a little:
http://www.powercustom.com/10-22/parts_10-22.htm
While you've got it apart... Look up "tuffer buffer" on ebay. You get three for about $12. Anyones claims aside, the gun will cycle quiter / smoother, it's just a little nicer to shoot.
(http://i21.ebayimg.com/03/i/000/e4/3a/a7bb_1.JPG)
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There was a thread about Recoil Buffers, it was specificly about using them in 1911's but some food for thought.
http://www.downrange.tv/forum/index.php/topic,4293.0.html
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I have already changed the recoil buffer back in December. It does make it a lot quieter. Now I have to get one for my wife's 10/22 as well.
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Thanks for the link on the buffer. I will have to pick some up and try them.
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At least in the 10/22's I've tried about 5 different brands in various guns. Some even had little metal rods in the middle of them (one I'm still using now does). the "tuffer buffer's" I've used have yet to fall apart or give me any problems at all. Their nothing fancy, just a good grade of polycarbonate I guess. When you can get three for $12 there a great deal! I'd guess any brand will wear out with enough use and time, but these seem to be lasting.
I use a buffer in my SKS's as well (HUGE differance there!) One buffer company makes a little wedge to take the slop out of AR's upper and lower receivers and it works great to. (any DPMS AR I've seen yet is tight as a drum though, and the buffer wont even fit).
I like em!
DJ, next step is to drill a .3" hole in the back end of the reciever. Magnum Research guns come this way. ITS AWSOME! Allows you to clean the barrel properly without removing it from the reciever. Then lap in the contact surfaces on the hammer and sear (do a lot of research on that one for your own safety if you've not done anything like this before!), put in a Power Customs firing pin, and half a dozen other goodies from them, lap in / square up the chamber face, cryo the factory barrel, get a cool stock. THEN you'll start wanting another 10/22 to build differently from the first, and so on, and so on... IT NEVER ENDS!!!!!!!!! It's a habbit you cant kick once you start. And now its to late for you! ;D ;D ;D Another one hooked!
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At least in the 10/22's I've tried about 5 different brands in various guns. Some even had little metal rods in the middle of them (one I'm still using now does). the "tuffer buffer's" I've used have yet to fall apart or give me any problems at all. Their nothing fancy, just a good grade of polycarbonate I guess. When you can get three for $12 there a great deal! I'd guess any brand will wear out with enough use and time, but these seem to be lasting.
I use a buffer in my SKS's as well (HUGE differance there!) One buffer company makes a little wedge to take the slop out of AR's upper and lower receivers and it works great to. (any DPMS AR I've seen yet is tight as a drum though, and the buffer wont even fit).
I like em!
DJ, next step is to drill a .3" hole in the back end of the reciever. Magnum Research guns come this way. ITS AWSOME! Allows you to clean the barrel properly without removing it from the reciever. Then lap in the contact surfaces on the hammer and sear (do a lot of research on that one for your own safety if you've not done anything like this before!), put in a Power Customs firing pin, and half a dozen other goodies from them, lap in / square up the chamber face, cryo the factory barrel, get a cool stock. THEN you'll start wanting another 10/22 to build differently from the first, and so on, and so on... IT NEVER ENDS!!!!!!!!! It's a habbit you cant kick once you start. And now its to late for you! ;D ;D ;D Another one hooked!
I know it's too late I am already looking for my next one. My current 10/22 has a Ruger birch stock that is gourgeous, I get offers for it every time I go to a match, so I don't want to mess with it. I want to get another one and add a bull barrel and a cool thumbhole stock.
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A second option to the bull barrel: Shorten up the chamber length a little on the factory barrel to more reasonable standards then have it cryo treated. It'll probably (there are NEVER guarantee's are there?) outshoot many heavy bull barrels on the market, and make a LOT nicer carrying gun! Bull barrels are trendy, look pretty, and are fine for the range. The reason they exist is that "thin" barrels are more prone to warp as they heat up and cool down throwing zero off. Cryo treat that thin barrel so its stress relieved, and you've solved the problem. The factory barrel may not look as cool at the range, but you'll learn to really not like a bull barrel gun after you carry it around hunting a while! You'll start using a sling, and that means missing game.
My 10/22T came from the factory with such a short chamber that it wont accept ANY hyper velocity ammo other than the Remington truncated bullets (viper and yellow jacket). Dont be afraid to taking off a few thousandths from yours, and square up your chamber face. Just check it's length FREQUENTLY as you go.
Call around to local machine shops and ask if they know someone who can do the cryo for you. May want to just say "stress relieve some material" so they understand what your talking about at first. Probably run you around $50 bucks. Dont pay more than $75. MUCH cheaper than the bull barrel.
Ebay usually has quite a few GREAT looking thumbhole stocks for both types of barrels. If its a hunting gun with a factory barrel check out the Butler Creek folding stock (the back half is metal). IT'S GREAT!!!
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Remington 597 ;)
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Plastic trigger group :(
Poor machining :(
Feed problems :(
Bad aftermarket support :(
Used gun racks are FULL of em :-\
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Plastic trigger group :( Who cares
Poor machining :( Nope
Feed problems :( Thousands of rounds..... Never had any
Bad aftermarket support :( Only if you feel the need to put 1,000+ aftermarket parts on it
Used gun racks are FULL of em :-\ Its a rarity when I see one
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My vote is for the extractor being the problem........ You should first start by trying a very thorough cleaning...... try Break Free CLP....... saturate everything metal with it and scrub it really well..... then leave it alone (Dont wipe all the cleaner off -- it needs to soak) and come back to it in 2 or 3 days.
I agree
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it is, without a doubt, the extractor. get an Exact Edge, or volquartzen extractor; problem solved.