The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on March 24, 2009, 01:44:36 PM
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Homeland Security 'fusion centers' suggest if you fear tight gun control from Obama administration you may be an extremist or militia member
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/23/fusion-centers-expand-criteria-identify-militia-members/
'Fusion Centers' Expand Criteria to Identify Militia Members
Do you like Ron Paul or oppose abortion? You may be a member of a militia, according to a new report by a government information collection agency.
If you're an anti-abortion activist, or if you display political paraphernalia supporting a third-party candidate or a certain Republican member of Congress, if you possess subversive literature, you very well might be a member of a domestic paramilitary group.
That's according to "The Modern Militia Movement," a report by the Missouri Information Analysis Center (MIAC), a government collective that identifies the warning signs of potential domestic terrorists for law enforcement communities.
"Due to the current economical and political situation, a lush environment for militia activity has been created," the Feb. 20 report reads. "Unemployment rates are high, as well as costs of living expenses. Additionally, President Elect Barrack [sic] Obama is seen as tight on gun control and many extremists fear that he will enact firearms confiscations."
MIAC is one of 58 so-called "fusion centers" nationwide that were created by the Department of Homeland Security, in part, to collect local intelligence that authorities can use to combat terrorism and related criminal activities. More than $254 million from fiscal years 2004-2007 went to state and local governments to support the fusion centers, according to the DHS Web site.
During a press conference last week in Kansas City, Mo., DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano called fusion centers the "centerpiece of state, local, federal intelligence-sharing" in the future.
"Let us not forget the reason we are here, the reason we have the Department of Homeland Security and the reason we now have fusion centers, which is a relatively new concept, is because we did not have the capacity as a country to connect the dots on isolated bits of intelligence prior to 9/11," Napolitano said, according to a DHS transcript.
"That's why we started this.... Now we know that it's not just the 9/11-type incidents but many, many other types of incidents that we can benefit from having fusion centers that share information and product and analysis upwards and horizontally."
But some say the fusion centers are going too far in whom they identify as potential threats to American security.
People who supported former third-party presidential candidates like Texas Rep. Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and former Georgia Rep. Bob Barr are cited in the report, in addition to anti-abortion activists and conspiracy theorists who believe the United States, Mexico and Canada will someday form a North American Union.
"Militia members most commonly associate with 3rd party political groups," the report reads. "It is not uncommon for militia members to display Constitutional Party, Campaign for Liberty or Libertarian material."
Other potential signals of militia involvement, according to the report, are possession of the Gagsden "Don't Tread on Me" flag or the widely available anti-income tax film "America: Freedom to Fascism."
Barr, the 2008 Libertarian Party presidential nominee, told FOXNews.com that he's taking steps to get his name removed from the report, which he said could actually "dilute the effectiveness" of law enforcement agencies.
"It can subject people to unwarranted and inappropriate monitoring by the government," he said. "If I were the governor of Missouri, I'd be concerned that law enforcement agencies are wasting their time and effort on such nonsense."
Barr said his office has received "several dozen" complaints related to the report.
Mary Starrett, communications director for the Constitution Party, said Baldwin, the party's 2008 presidential candidate, was "outraged" that his name was included in the report.
"We were so astounded by it we couldn't believe it was real," Starrett told FOXNews.com. "It's painting such a large number of people with a broad brush in a dangerous light."
Michael German, national security policy counsel for the American Civil Liberties Union, said the report "crosses the line" and shows a disregard for civil liberties.
"It seems to implicate people who are engaging in First Amendment protected activities and suggest that something as innocuous as supporting a political candidate for office would mean that you're harboring some ill-intent," German told FOXNews.com. "It's completely inappropriate."
German, who claims the number of fusion centers nationwide is closer to 70, said the centers present several troubling concerns, including their excessive secrecy, ambiguous lines of authority, the use of data mining and military participation.
"No two are alike," German said. "And these things are expanding rapidly."
But MIAC officials defended their report, saying it's not a basis for officers to take enforcement action.
"These reports sometimes mention groups or individuals who are not the subject of the document, but may be relevant to describing tendencies or trends concerning the subject of the document," MIAC said in a statement.
"For example, a criminal group may use a particular wire service to transfer funds, but the mention of that wire service does not imply that it is part of that group, or a criminal enterprise.
Nor does it imply that all individuals who use that service are engaged in criminal activity."
The statement continues, "We are concerned about the mischaracterizations of a document following its recent unauthorized release and we regret that any citizens were unintentionally offended by the content of the document."
Donny Ferguson, a spokesman for the Libertarian Party, said he was concerned by the report's "poor choice of words," among other things.
"Unfortunately it is so broadly worded it could be interpreted as saying millions of peaceful, law-abiding Americans are involved in dangerous activities. These mistakes happen and we hope Missouri officials will correct the report," Ferguson wrote in an e-mail. "The Libertarian Party promotes the common-sense policies of fiscal responsibility and social tolerance. We are the only party in America who makes opposition to initiating violence a condition of membership."
Bob McCarty, a St. Louis resident who blogged about the MIAC report, said he's afraid he may be targeted, since he's previously sold Ron Paul-related merchandise.
"[The report] described me, so maybe I need to get a gun and build a shack out in the woods," McCarty said facetiously. "It's certainly an attempt to stifle political thought, especially in Missouri. It definitely makes me pause, if nothing else. Maybe Missouri is just a test bed for squelching political thought."
ACLU officials blasted a Texas fusion center last month for distributing a "Prevention Awareness Bulletin" that called on law enforcement officers to report activities of local lobbying groups, Muslim civil rights organizations and anti-war protest groups.
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If you fear tighter gun control under B O perhaps you SHOULD join a militia. It saved the day the LAST time the Govt. tried to take our rights.
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Quote from article:
But MIAC officials defended their report, saying it's not a basis for officers to take enforcement action.
This is a LIE!
"These reports sometimes mention groups or individuals who are not the subject of the document, but may be relevant to describing tendencies or trends concerning the subject of the document," MIAC said in a statement.
So if I listen to Ted Nugent and like Re. Barr, Paul, whoever isn't "politically correct" I have a "militia" tendency?
"For example, a criminal group may use a particular wire service to transfer funds, but the mention of that wire service does not imply that it is part of that group, or a criminal enterprise.
Duh! It's a wire service, Western Union is used for millions of dollars to go "South of the Border"
Nor does it imply that all individuals who use that service are engaged in criminal activity."
Than what's the point of making it?
The statement continues, "We are concerned about the mischaracterizations of a document following its recent unauthorized release and we regret that any citizens were unintentionally offended by the content of the document."
Why was this an "unauthorized release" in the new BHO transparent admin...
These are bureaucratic "little" big brother watch groups. Oh no, Uncle Freddy is flying his "Don't Tread On Me" flag,,,,,
AND voted for Ron Paul, .,.,.,
He MUST be watched as a militia member?
Smells like: ,....you know what....
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Although I was "Just a Dispatcher" I don't believe that this is the point of the Fusion Centers - I have a limited Knoledge of these new money holes in the government but what I do know is that gun control is not the point of it. Our LEIN officer thought this was SSS (Super Secret Squirril) but then at several conferences and training meetings they talked about the point of these "information Centers". One thing I do know is that MOST of the News media portrays the side they want you to think.. Not the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth. I know I have been burnt on this several times as I have had in the past many different Public Safety hats to wear. Like I said in the Where ya from? Thread I try to keep many of my opinions to myself, so tombogan03884 here I go speaking out. I am a very open minded person and generally listen to everyone, but after 8 years of working at a mostly forward looking law enforcement agency I will probably start trying to be the LE advocate on here. I have read many posts of people degrading LE and I know that there are many incomp. officers out there.. but those are the only officers you ever hear about. HAZ's dealings with one of those officers, although very entertaining on my part.. lead to many bad comments towards LE on here. Much like the saying "One oh Sh*t will cut down 10,000 atta boy's" Well 1 or a group of bad apples tear down so many good officers and "Intel Agencies" Fusion is not a new thing.. Just a new Title so that someone can have a "Title" and a job and a purpose in life, but for many many years there have been Intel Gathering Centers at all levels of government Local to International.
Let it fly now.. NooB just spoke
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Although I was "Just a Dispatcher" I don't believe that this is the point of the Fusion Centers - I have a limited Knoledge of these new money holes in the government but what I do know is that gun control is not the point of it. Our LEIN officer thought this was SSS (Super Secret Squirril) but then at several conferences and training meetings they talked about the point of these "information Centers". One thing I do know is that MOST of the News media portrays the side they want you to think.. Not the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth. I know I have been burnt on this several times as I have had in the past many different Public Safety hats to wear. Like I said in the Where ya from? Thread I try to keep many of my opinions to myself, so tombogan03884 here I go speaking out. I am a very open minded person and generally listen to everyone, but after 8 years of working at a mostly forward looking law enforcement agency I will probably start trying to be the LE advocate on here. I have read many posts of people degrading LE and I know that there are many incomp. officers out there.. but those are the only officers you ever hear about. HAZ's dealings with one of those officers, although very entertaining on my part.. lead to many bad comments towards LE on here. Much like the saying "One oh Sh*t will cut down 10,000 atta boy's" Well 1 or a group of bad apples tear down so many good officers and "Intel Agencies" Fusion is not a new thing.. Just a new Title so that someone can have a "Title" and a job and a purpose in life, but for many many years there have been Intel Gathering Centers at all levels of government Local to International.
Let it fly now.. NooB just spoke
Incoming!!!!!
Just joking, but I would ask you to consider one thing. What is the purpose of these intelligence information gathering groups? To me it smacks of nothing more than self-preservation - of the gummint. Not the citizens, in fact we are the source of the materials being gathered. Who is to say we will not also be the targets of the gathering? This is as you hinted a way for someone to make their bones in the gummint - at the expense of the citizenry.
Just like the militarization of the PDs across the country, to the point you now have LEOs like the gung-ho mopes who went to post-Katrina NO looking for "action", you now have these "fusion centers" gathering "harmless" information about American Citizens.
Do you seriously not see anything wrong with this?
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I believe that is where the "media" factor comes in. They tell you what they want you to hear and how they want you to hear it. As far as the Intel. there needs to be centrallized places to gather this.. Mostly if you see said bad guy in Iowa and he is frequenting Il. there is an agency that takes that info and makes the two locals talk to each other and makes each others information available. I have personally seen this work and it works well. The fusion part though it has always been there but I think this a more "Public" part of the intel community. This is hand and hand with the OTR Truck Drivers being "semi-mandatory" reporters of suspicious activity.
I don't know and as I DO NOT support big brother.. I guess if they want to "track" me then I think this country is doing pretty well.. I just moved to a new community and I'm fairly certain I have been put on some kind of watch list by all of the local Ultraconservatives in town. I haven't made many contacts yet and as I was sitting in my apt Killing nothing but time giving my CCW and other guns while I was at it a good once over the bug guy was making his rounds through the apt complex. To make matters worse "Welcome Wagon" then decided to stop by. I don't know if they could have found a bigger anti-gun person to send on of all days when I'm cleaning my .30 cal Tac rifle. I'm pretty sure that I scared the bejesus out of both of them, but my apt is bug free and I have a free loaf of bread and a dozen eggs.
I am a huge proponent for "Right to Carry" heck for that matter it should be "Right to Own Whatever the hell you damn well please" (as long as you are not a felon. Not acceptable in my eyes.) I was glad to here from some of our "Down Under Members" in the "Where ya from" thread and them saying that there really hasn't been any improvements in the new gun laws over there. I am less versed in their laws and it is mostly rumor and hearsay that I do know. Def. open to more knowledge and opinions. I'm sure that when I get back to work tonight there will be PLENTY for me to listen to.
Until then
J
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/state-apologizes-to-paul-barr-baldwin-over-miac-report.html
State Apologizes to Paul, Barr & Baldwin Over MIAC Report
The uproar that ensued as a result of our original story about a document issued by the Missouri Information Analysis Center which smeared third party supporters as potential domestic terrorists has forced the Missouri Department of Public Safety to issue an apology to Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin and Bob Barr. However, references to people who are anti-abortion, anti-gun control, knowledgeable about the Constitution and even those who simply display political bumper stickers will remain.
As we revealed in our exclusive report two weeks ago, a leaked secret report distributed by the federal Missouri Information Analysis Center lists Ron Paul supporters, libertarians, people who display bumper stickers, people who own gold, or even people who fly a U.S. flag and equates them with radical race hate groups and terrorists.
The MIAC report specifically describes supporters of presidential candidates Ron Paul, Chuck Baldwin, and Bob Barr as “militia” influenced terrorists and instructs the Missouri police to be on the lookout for supporters displaying bumper stickers and other paraphernalia associated with the Constitutional, Campaign for Liberty, and Libertarian parties.
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Although I was "Just a Dispatcher" I don't believe that this is the point of the Fusion Centers - I have a limited Knoledge of these new money holes in the government but what I do know is that gun control is not the point of it. Our LEIN officer thought this was SSS (Super Secret Squirril) but then at several conferences and training meetings they talked about the point of these "information Centers". One thing I do know is that MOST of the News media portrays the side they want you to think.. Not the Whole Truth and Nothing but the Truth. I know I have been burnt on this several times as I have had in the past many different Public Safety hats to wear. Like I said in the Where ya from? Thread I try to keep many of my opinions to myself, so tombogan03884 here I go speaking out. I am a very open minded person and generally listen to everyone, but after 8 years of working at a mostly forward looking law enforcement agency I will probably start trying to be the LE advocate on here. I have read many posts of people degrading LE and I know that there are many incomp. officers out there.. but those are the only officers you ever hear about. HAZ's dealings with one of those officers, although very entertaining on my part.. lead to many bad comments towards LE on here. Much like the saying "One oh Sh*t will cut down 10,000 atta boy's" Well 1 or a group of bad apples tear down so many good officers and "Intel Agencies" Fusion is not a new thing.. Just a new Title so that someone can have a "Title" and a job and a purpose in life, but for many many years there have been Intel Gathering Centers at all levels of government Local to International.
Let it fly now.. NooB just spoke
Don't get us wrong, many here are or were involved in Law enforcement. We all know that most Cops are well meaning, serving their communities, and dealing with the worst elements of society. However, there is an increasing segment of the law enforcement community that think they joined the SS and are nothing but blowhard, know it all fascist thugs. This attitude seems to be most common at managerial (political) levels but in the last 40 years I have watched it seep into the mindset of street level officers, not all, just that proverbial 10%. Unfortunately the "us verses them" mentality that is replacing the "serve and protect" images of days gone by also influences the attitude of the public toward the guy who used to be Officer Friendly.
I hope some one else rephrases what I'm trying to say here because I don't think I'm phrasing it well enough to get my point across, but the bad Minority get them ALL painted with the same donut sucking fascist thug brush, even if they just brought home a lost kid. It's like any other stereotype, it's caused by a minority, it's unfair to the "good Cops"and it sums up a general attitude of disgust for the bad ones.
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Seems like fear is eating at us like a cancer? I do understand that there are good law enforcement officers out there. Some top notch politician is getting kudos and pats on the back for coming up with these ideas to focus on future domestic terrorism or to try to save us from ourselves! There are always going to be the bad guys who slip through the cracks and take out a few people. This is unfortunate but this will happen no matter what the goverment tries to do to stop it.
As for militia's, I have always been wary of them. This is my personal opinion. If you have a few fellas get together to blow off some rounds and have a swig of whiskey while bad mouthing taxes and ignorant politicians, I would justify that as a good time.
I personally put my faith into the Law Enforcement Officers and the United States Military to help maintain law and order. They are very well trained to deal with most incidents that come before them.
I truly doubt that Obama will take away our guns. I am not going to say he won't try but this is where I pray the NRA and lobbyists will cut the knees out from under any support of it.
This is my two bits. 8)
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Tom, you are much more kind than I am toward LEOs. I really don't know what percentages, but the last few forces I have had dealings with (all positive) have left a very bad taste in my mouth for event he rank and file.
In the county sheriff dept. where I had my ranch, there were a couple of good folks, the best being a woman IMHO. The worst being the Sheriff himself, an ignorant arrogant thug. Completely botched a missing couple situation, took months to find the wife in the basement of a derelict farmhouse, refused to let anyone search the rest of the house cuz when he hauled his overweight ass into a window, the house rocked back and forth (it was rather derelict). So he put the house off-limits. Guess where the husband was? Upstairs in that house. The husband had Alzheimer's, killed her, whacked himself upstairs. Screwed up other cases too. He gave an order when running for re-election that if you even uttered his competitor's name, he would fire you on the spot and make sure you had a bad report to go along with it.
Couple that with my experiences with the overly politicized Chicago and suburban PDs, plus the actions in NO after Katrina, Greensgurg, KS, and elsewhere (especially the map of botched SWAT raids), and you can begin to understand why I and others worry that maybe the rank and file aren't quite so worthy of trust. And then the Feds form these little intell groups that was supposed to be off the radar, and should anyone wonder that we are paranoid and distrusting?
I expect the PDs around the country to stop the BGs, or at least keep a lid on it. I also expect them not to ever, under any circumstances, label, view, react to, or in any other manner tag or behave towards law-abiding, perhaps dissenting citizens as "terrorists". But they will, it is coming, and just a matter of time. The right person in the right place can bring together our militarized PDs, urban warfare trained and experienced military, bad laws and corrupt politicians, and we will see freedom and liberty evaporate overnight, much like this economy.
That kinda what you were trying to say, Tom?
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It's a matter of mind set, of course you will always have the "Boss Hogg" types (There really was a political boss named Hogg late 1800's IIRC) But the Rank and file can be divided into Cops, who see themselves as being there to "Serve and Protect" the community. And then there are "Law Enforcement" those are the "Befeln ist Befeln" a$$holes you see in Katrina videos. They don't give a crap about the community they are going to enforce what their bosses tell them the law is.
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Well.. I think I have successfully broken the ice on my NooB status. I guess I'm from small town Iowa. For the most part I know that as for my experience at the Sheriff's office that use to work at the "nightshift" was cool.. I guess I get a little testy when people bash on LE. Usually there is another side to everything and I lost many immature friends because of my stint there. I have left the door open there with a line on a job there if I were to want it. So.. I'm NOT rolling over, just want people to realize there are two sides to things, but for now I'll go back to my corner.
J
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Well.. I think I have successfully broken the ice on my NooB status. I guess I'm from small town Iowa. For the most part I know that as for my experience at the Sheriff's office that use to work at the "nightshift" was cool.. I guess I get a little testy when people bash on LE. Usually there is another side to everything and I lost many immature friends because of my stint there. I have left the door open there with a line on a job there if I were to want it. So.. I'm NOT rolling over, just want people to realize there are two sides to things, but for now I'll go back to my corner.
J
Hey don't sweat it. Just do what I do and put "It's all Tom's fault' on your default reply switch and everything is better. ;D Seriousley, on this board you'll find everything from right wing GOP, to Black helicopter folks to libertarians (like me) to moderates to well armed liberals. the cool thing is that its a pretty friendly place. You can tear someone a new asshole on the politics thread, and yet if you post a question about a trigger problem with a revolver on the handgun page, they'll be there offering advice. There are some elbows thrown, but if you've followed the site at all you'll note that its all in good fun and nobody becomes a pariah for not toeing the line. Hell, I voted for Obama and have gotten my share of shit for it, but I still haven't been voted out of the clubhouse, because on the things that matter most, all of us are on the same page, and politics are just a fun contact sport,. Welcome aboard.
fightingquaker13
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Hey don't sweat it. Just do what I do and put "It's all Tom's fault' on your default reply switch and everything is better. ;D Seriousley, on this board you'll find everything from right wing GOP, to Black helicopter folks to libertarians (like me) to moderates to well armed liberals. the cool thing is that its a pretty friendly place. You can tear someone a new asshole on the politics thread, and yet if you post a question about a trigger problem with a revolver on the handgun page, they'll be there offering advice. There are some elbows thrown, but if you've followed the site at all you'll note that its all in good fun and nobody becomes a pariah for not toeing the line. Hell, I voted for Obama and have gotten my share of shit for it, but I still haven't been voted out of the clubhouse, because on the things that matter most, all of us are on the same page, and politics are just a fun contact sport,. Welcome aboard.
fightingquaker13
Hey thanks for the vote of confidence!! I have pretty broad shoulders and I can take it as well as I dish it out. I have been a member for a while but have just been doing some research and seeing what people have to say about different things. I decided to "pop" my cherrie the other day and start posting. The cafe threads are just short of falling down laughing.. heck I have fallen down laughing. The grumbling on the threads I often go back to "South Park" and vision everyone standing outside of city hall yelling "Rabble rabble rabble" - (Especially the City Wall Episode with the Damn Mongorrians)
I'm here all night people!
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Hang in there. It gets fun and there quite a few gentlemen on here who have good advice. Read, respond if you want to and enjoy. ;)
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Hang in there. It gets fun and there quite a few gentlemen on here who have good advice. Read, respond if you want to and enjoy. ;)
You might get burned a little for that one............... ;) ;D Gentlemen..?? 8)
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Don't get offended PegLeg, He's using the word in it's broadest possible context. ;D
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Don't get offended PegLeg, He's using the word in it's broadest possible context. ;D
While that may be true, even an old fart like me has noticed that Teresa is HARDLY a gentleman. LOL
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Thanks for the correction guys. There are a few ladies on here too with exceptional advice and experience. :)