The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: ericire12 on April 03, 2009, 12:30:12 PM
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/?GT1=43001
BINGHAMTON, N.Y. - At least four people were shot and dozens were taken hostage Friday at an immigration services center, according to officials and news reports.
NBC's Pete Williams cited city and state officials as saying that as many 13 people might have been killed. But Williams cautioned that the information was very preliminary and may change as the hours go by because police were still searching the building.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,512441,00.html
DEVELOPING: Several people were shot Friday and dozens of hostages taken at an immigration center in upstate New York.
There may be some fatalities in the rampage at the American Civic Association in Binghamton, N.Y., but police declined to say whether that's the case.
Binghamton Police told FOXNews.com that they couldn't confirm whether any of the shooting victims died and wouldn't give the number shot because it was still "an active scene."
But a local hospital said they were treating at least five shooting victims.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/04/03/binghamton.shooting/index.html
Source: 4 die, up to 40 held hostage in Binghamton shootings
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It will be interesting to see if the new Senator Gillibrand makes a comment about this....
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See this link from the Drudgereport: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D97B4DLO0&show_article=1
Let's get ready for this one. Right now the gunman is supposed to have a "high powered rifle". Before its over, it would not surprise me that it becomes an "assault weapon" or a "sniper rifle". Also if the gunman has some history of mental illness, there will be a hue and cry raised about making our medical records available to law enforcement.
We already know what they are going to say, we need to punch 'em in the mouth when they say it......
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Drove right past that place yesterday on the way to Sam's Club. Had to leave my "Stuff" at home cause NY has such terrible gun laws. Glad I am back home in PA.
Can't wait to find out the type of weapons used and if he had a Pistol Permit for the handgun in NY. Local reports claim a "High powered Hunting Rifle, 9mm handgun and a "Hunting knife in his waistband".
Let the games begin ::)
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Latest report from MSNBC(D) states 2 handguns:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/?GT1=43001 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30030756/?GT1=43001)
BINGHAMTON, N.Y. - A gunman walked into an immigrant services center and opened fire on Friday, killing 15 people before he killed himself, law enforcement sources told NBC News.
Earlier, Gov. David Paterson put the number of dead at 12 to 13.
A federal law enforcement official said the suspected gunman was found dead in the building of a self-inflicted gunshot wound.
The man carried identification with the name of 42-year-old Jiverly Voong of nearby Johnson City, N.Y., a law enforcement official said. Sources later told NBC's Pete Williams that the name Voong, as well as another surname initially reported, was an alias.
"I speak for all of New York when I offer my prayers for the victims and families of this tragedy," Paterson said hours after the gunman shot several people and took dozens hostage. The gunman first blocked the back door with his car, authorities said.
Rep. Maurice Hinchey, whose district includes Binghamton, said the gunman had recently been let go from IBM in Johnson City and opened fire on a citizenship class.
"People were there in the process of being tested for their citizenship," Hinchey said in a telephone interview. "It was in the middle of a test. He just went in and opened fire."
Authorities scheduled a news conference for Friday afternoon.
At least 41 people were in the American Civic Association building at the time of the shooting and that citizenship classes had been scheduled Friday at the center, The Binghamton Press & Sun Bulletin reported.
Mayor Matthew Ryan initially said the gunman had a high-powered rifle but law-enforcement sources later told NBC that he had actually used two handguns.
The suspect was described as a man in his 20s between 5 feet, 8 inches, and 6 feet tall, wearing a bright green nylon jacket and dark-rimmed glasses.
Police locked down a nearby high school and advised local business owners to stay inside.
Rich Griffith, who works across the street from the hostage scene, said he saw three people carried out of the building on stretchers alive.
Binghamton, with a population around 45,000, is about 150 miles northwest of New York City. The American Civic Association helps immigrants in the area with naturalization applications, counseling, resettlement, citizenship, family reunification and translators.
Mary Pat Hyland, who teaches classes at the center, told MSNBC that many of the immigrants served there are from Vietnam and Laos. "We have a very diverse ethnic area," she said.
The association’s president, Angela Leach, “is very upset right now,” said Mike Chanecka, a friend who answered a call at her home as Leach wept in the background.
“She doesn’t know anything; she’s as shocked as anyone,” Chanecka said. “For some reason, she had the day off today. And she’s very worried about her secretary.”
At least six hospitalized
Five people with gunshot wounds were being treated at Wilson Medical Center in Johnson City, according to hospital spokeswoman Christina Boyd.
The wounded ranged in age from 20 to their mid-50s, and their conditions ranged from stable to critical, she said.
Linda Miller, a spokeswoman at Our Lady of Lourdes Hospital in Binghamton, confirmed that a student from Binghamton University was being treated in the emergency room.
Around 1 p.m. ET, Pennie Kerber, 72, told the AP in a phone call from her home across the street that the scene appeared to be settling down.
"The cops are all standing around in the front now. They're still all over the roof for sure," she said. "The SWAT shooters that were to the side of the building look like they're not there anymore."
Redeemer Lutheran Church in Binghamton planned a prayer vigil on Friday night for those affected by the shooting.
Police evacuate students
When the shooting started at 10:30 a.m. ET, people fled to the basement in search of safety. More than a dozen people were hiding in a closet for more than an hour.
College student Leslie Shrager told the AP that she and her five housemates were sleeping when police pounded on the front door of their house next door to the shooting scene.
Officers escorted the six Binghamton University students outside, she said, and that's when they learned of the shooting.
"One of our housemates thought they heard banging of some kind. But when you're living in downtown Binghamton, it's always noisy," said Shrager, of Slingerlands, an Albany suburb. "Literally two minutes later the cops came and got us out."
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Voong had recently been laid off from IBM in Johnson City, U.S. Rep. Maurice Hinchey, a Democrat whose district includes Binghamton, told the Associated Press.
First you have to understand that upstate NY around Endicott NY used to be a huge area for IBM employment. Multiple plants and something in the order of 60K employees just in NY. IBM has over the last decade laid off 100's of thousands in some pretty brutal layoffs. They have crippled the economy of some upstate NY towns. Families where the two parents and kids worked in the plants. Jobs just gone overnight. There was a layoff of 5K to 9K employees just a couple of days ago. Shipping all the jobs to India. IBM makes no bones about it, that they want to close down shop in the US except for a relatively few sales reps to meet with customers. Everything else will be done overseas. There are tremendous tensions and outright anger in the company these days. This doesn't surprise me at all.
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Suspect is Asian male. As we look at these active murderers scenarios, the incidents which have been interrupted and the murderer's mission foiled has been by a citizen or an off-duty officer who was armed and able to intervene.
In Connecticut, as many states, our naive legislators have set up free murder zones by banning lawful permit holders from carrying their firearms while in certain buildings. Guess which ones? Government, schools and any others whose owners restrict this. Where are we seeing these active murderers striking? The worst we can do as a society is to put a muzzle (sorry for pun) on our sheepdogs (both who wear a badge and those who do not.)
I attended a concert at the Bridgeport arena in Bridgeport, CT and even with my badge and police ID, they would not let me in. I ended up letting my brothers of BPD hold my sidearm until the end. They shared with me that even they could not enter with sidearms while off duty.
Last time I checked, these active murderers are not choosing gun clubs to carry out their deeds.
Most recent:
Nursing Home in North Carolina - Domestic Related. Likely hood of armed people? None.
Church in Illinois - Nut Job - Law prohibits carry of firearms in church by congregants. Likely hood of armed people? None (I carry in my church and have been approached by my pastors who are more comfortable with that.)
Immigration Office - New York - Likely hood of armed people? None.
You know that the pressure will be on by the anti's in O bam bam's administration. We must be proactive in our logic and argument even though the anti's will lack intellectual integrity on their part.
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http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,25287639-401,00.html
Up to 13 feared dead in gun rampage in Binghamton, New York
13 people killed in gun rampage
Gunman held up to 41 hostages
Gunman later found dead inside
A GUNMAN massacred 12 to 13 people overnight at an immigration centre in upstate New York before taking at least 20 hostages, then apparently turning the gun on himself.
New York Governor David Paterson, speaking in a live television broadcast, said the shooter "killed 12 or 13 people. This is a horrible situation.''
The gunman, who also took between 20 and 40 hostages at the civic centre in the sleepy city of Binghamton, later killed himself, CNN reported, citing unnamed sources.
The tragedy began mid-morning (US time) when the gunman entered the American Civic Association building in Binghamton, 217km northwest of New York city.
After opening fire, the gunman holed himself up with hostages in the centre, where help is given to new immigrants and would-be US citizens.
Heavily armed police, backed by commandos and FBI agents, swarmed into the area and surrounded the building.
By mid-afternoon, local News 10 Now television said the town police chief had confirmed: "The building is secure and everyone alive is out.'
Two people were taken out of the building during the standoff with their hands secured behind their backs, local television and newspapers reported, but it was not clear whether these were suspects or had been detained as a precaution.
Initial reports suggested the shooter was a young man of Asian appearance and that the attack started during a gathering of immigrants at the civic association. This could not be confirmed.
CNN reported the gunman was a 42-year-old male from upstate New York.
During the standoff, TV footage showed police officers carrying out several stretchers, including one on which the victim was clearly still moving. Crowds of anxious people gathered in the area, watching.
The Binghamton General Hospital said three people had been brought in for treatment, and its trauma centre was on alert with extra staff drafted in to help.
The local Press and Sun-Bulletin newspaper reported that 41 hostages were in the building - 15 in a closet and 26 in the boiler room.
According to Bob Joseph, news director of local WNBF Radio in the town of Binghamton, the gunman was believed to have parked a car so that it blocked the back door of the civic centre, preventing escape.
The carnage in New York state is the latest to rock small-town America, where many fiercely defend the legal right to bear powerful firearms.
On Sunday a heavily-armed man burst into a North Carolina nursing home killing eight people before being shot and wounded by a policeman.
Earlier this month, a 28-year-old unemployed man killed 10 people, including his mother and a toddler, in a shooting rampage through two counties in Alabama, the worst in the southern state's history.
And in December, a man dressed as Santa Claus opened fire at a Christmas party being given by his ex-wife in Covina, California, killing nine people before shooting himself.
This latest incident comes days before the second anniversary of a massacre at Virginia Tech - the deadliest school shooting in US history in which 32 students and professors were shot dead by a student gunman - and weeks before the 10th anniversary of the Columbine, Colorado school shooting.
The recent spate may be linked to the recession gripping the country, experts say.
"A mass killer is someone who has almost always suffered a catastrophic loss - that's the link between a recession and mass killings,'' criminologist Jack Levin told AFP, citing the loss of a job, the loss of a lot of money or the loss of a relationship.
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You know that the pressure will be on by the anti's in O bam bam's administration. We must be proactive in our logic and argument even though the anti's will lack intellectual integrity on their part.
that is Soooo True
the only issue is getting the media to realise that there arguments are flawed,
also watch them use this to push there case and I bet they will not mention there thoughts go out to the families that have lost loved ones they will just go on about banning this and that
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that is Soooo True
the only issue is getting the media to realise that there arguments are flawed,
also watch them use this to push there case and I bet they will not mention there thoughts go out to the families that have lost loved ones they will just go on about banning this and that
Especially those EVIL handguns that are only made for killing!
::)
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Officials said Voong entered the civic association armed with two pistols – a 9 mm and a .45 caliber handgun. He carried a bag filled with high capacity magazines, a survival knife and a flashlight, according to police.
Voong backed his car up to the rear door of the building to block any escape before he went to the front of the building and started to execute people, police said.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/Story?id=7249853&page=1
Gotta get the buzz words in there. ;)
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you know it would be really funny if the hand guns ended up being a 1911 or a sig p220... you know something has has less then 10 rounds capity.
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Whats sad is one person with a carry weapon could have stopped this. :'( But you live and learn.....oh...never mind.
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Whats sad is one person with a carry weapon could have stopped this. :'( But you live and learn.....oh...never mind.
That's the problem, these sleazeball politicians and socialist "do gooders" never seem to learn. The fact is, they would rather see the streets littered with dead civilians than admit that law abiding citizens are better able to protect themselves than the "Nanny state" is.
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actually from my understanding, they guy parked his car against the back door and came in the front door shooting. Even a highly skilled mall ninja could do little to stop him. Granted the hostage thing might have been ended, but the guy shooting every one in the 1st 10 seconds could not have been.
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actually from my understanding, they guy parked his car against the back door and came in the front door shooting. Even a highly skilled mall ninja could do little to stop him. Granted the hostage thing might have been ended, but the guy shooting every one in the 1st 10 seconds could not have been.
Would have been stopped SOONER. We continue to pay for anti gun stupidity in blood.
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Maybe, maybe not. Until there is a time line of events we won't know.
I could walk into a croweded room, fire 23 rounds( thats 3 reloades) from a 1911 and blow my brains out with the last one in well under 20 seconds.
At best some one might be able to respond in what 5 seconds? thats still atleast 8 shots off.
The cold hard truth is, if some one wants to kill people and is willing to give up thier life to do it,its extremely hard to stop them.
Even the highly skilled pros have a hard time doing it.
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actually from my understanding, they guy parked his car against the back door and came in the front door shooting. Even a highly skilled mall ninja could do little to stop him. Granted the hostage thing might have been ended, but the guy shooting every one in the 1st 10 seconds could not have been.
Actually, according to the reports I sasw he did park against the back door, but started shooting OUTside the building. While an armewd citizen may not have been able to prevent innocent bloodshed it sure as hell would've evened the playing field a bit.
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Whats sad is one person with a carry weapon could have stopped this. :'( But you live and learn.....oh...never mind.
New York doesn't like the "common folk" to carry those firearm thingy's, too dangerous for the folks to have. The NY gov't knows best.(sarcasm)
and evidently there is not strong enough gun reg's in NY so I'm sure more are coming. Hillary and Chucky Schumer will support it.
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not really, you would be in reaction mode, you are always behind the cruve when your reacting.
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not really, you would be in reaction mode, you are always behind the cruve when your reacting.
Maybe I'm strange, but when confronted by a homicidal maniac I'd rather be in reaction mode with a weapon than without one.
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That was not the point I was making.
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That was not the point I was making.
But that is precisely the point that I was making.
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Watched the ABC nightly news coverage on this. They described the two pistols as HEAVY CALIBER HANDGUNS. Gee I never knew a 9mm was a HEAVY CALIBER. Whatever....they also advertised a 1 hour special next Friday called "If I Only Had A Gun" at 10pm. I am sure it will be an even handed treatment of violence and firearms in America. Probably hosted by Jake Tapper (former shill for Handgun Control).
UPDATE:
Just looked up ABCs website and 10pm Fridays is 20/20. John Stossel is one of the co hosts on this show. He happens to be a libertarian and is PRO 2A (he admits that he is the only conservative/libertarian at ABC). I might be pleasantly surprised if he has input to this special. It might well turn out to be an honest treatment of the issue !
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Reaction Mode PLUS training and Situational Awareness, is a mighty equalizer. Too bad for those in NY.
The reaction mode left to 99.99% of the citizens in that state, will be unfortunately unarmed victims.
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Gotta get the buzz words in there. ;)
You notice that the knee jerk reaction by the media was to go on the ASSumption that the guy had an "assault rifle"?
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http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/david-paterson-binghamton-shooting-911.html
President Obama:
Michelle and I were shocked and deeply saddened to learn about the act of senseless violence in Binghamton, N.Y., today. Our thoughts and prayers go out to the victims, their families and the people of Binghamton.
We don’t yet know all the facts, but my administration is actively monitoring the situation and the vice president is in touch with Gov. Paterson and local officials to track developments.
Gov Paterson:
And now here in Binghamton we probably have the worst tragedy and senseless crime in the history of this state. When are we going to be able to curb the kind of violence that is so fraught and so rapid that we can’t even keep track of the incidents?
Wasn't there something called 9/11 in that same state a few years ago?
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I am shocked by this whole ordeal,
First of all, the people in that building would not have been able to get a gun, they were not citizens. So we know they are not going to be armed.
Second, why didn't the police stop him after he killed the first person? Oh, right, cops show up to investigate a crime...citizens stop crime.
Except that one incident at Trolly Square Mall in Salt Lake City...a armed off duty cop stopped that gunman. I notice that in the Foxnews column of all the shootings over the years they left that one out.
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After listening to the press conference, it sounded more like an Oscar speech:
"I'd like to thank the officers,from this agency,...etc,.."
I'd like to thank the FBI,....
What a well rehearsed bunch of crap,...
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I read that he went from room to room. If that were the situation and you or I would have been on the other side of any of those doors, having heard gunshots, when he came through the door, he'd suddenly find that he was the one having to react. Sorry about the run-on.
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http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,25287884-5006301,00.html
have some Anti comments that need correcting there ::)
Taliban link to US massacre in New York state
PAKISTAN'S top Taliban commander Baitullah Mehsud has reportedly claimed responsibility for a mass murder in New York state that killed 13 people.
"I accept the responsibility. They were my men,'' Mr Mehsud told reporters in Peshawar on phone from an undisclosed location.
Mr Mehsud said the massacre was in revenge for the continued US drone attacks on Pakistan's tribal region bordering Afghanistan. The seven semi-autonomous tribal districts are known to serve as sanctuaries for al-Qaeda and Taliban rebels.
The militant commander added that his men would hit US targets until Washington halted the missile strikes.
New York immigration centre massacre
A lone gunman burst into a New York immigration hall with his guns blazing overnight, killing 13 people and injuring several more in the latest mass shooting to rock the US.
About 41 people in the American Civic Association in Binghamton were taken hostage when Asian gunman Jiverly Voong, 42, stormed into the building packing a terrifiying array of firearms, including a high-powered rifle.
Voong, recently sacked from computer giant IBM, shot himself in the head after his killing spree.
His dead body was found on the first floor of the building with a hunting knife jammed in the waistband of his pants, US media reported.
Authorities at the scene said the man had used his car to block the back door before walking through the front doors, firing as he entered.
Late yesterday, about 1pm, witnesses reported seeing police leading two men away in plastic handcuffs as police retrieved two handguns.
The nightmare started about 10.30am, local time, when screams and heavy gun fire shattered the peace in upstate New York.
Voong reportedly targeted rooms inside the centre where a citizenship test was being conducted.
Terrified hostages hid in the closet and the boiler room during the killing spree, according to local media.
Hostages cloaked in white sheets scrambled from the building in groups of ten, holding their shaking hands on their heads.
Police searched them as they exited, worried one might be the gunman trying to escape in disguise.
Members of the two hostage groups hugged as they were released thirty minutes apart, the first group shortly after noon.
Sharp shooters and specialist FBI hostage negotiators were on hand all morning as elite SWAT team officers surrounded the building wearing heavy ballistic vests.
A local Vietnamese translator was seconded to work with police.
Earlier, a local hospital said they were treating about six shooting victims aged between 20 and 50.
At least one person rushed to the Wilson Medical Center was critically injured.
Police locked down a nearby high school and local business, ordering residents to stay inside.
Rashidun Haque, who owns a nearby convenience store, said police instructed him and his customers stay inside and away from the windows.
"I'm really shaky because this kind of thing, it's a small city, it's a beautiful city, but nothing goes down serious like this," Mr Haque said.
The immigration hall is a place where new arrivals sit citizenship tests and get help with translators.
New York Governor David Paterson said New Yorkers were reeling.
"This is a tragic day for New York," Mr Paterson said.
"While the situation is still developing and details are being gathered, we do know that a gunman entered the American Civic Association in Binghamton this morning and that there are fatalities."
It is the fourth mass shooting in the US in as many weeks.
In North Carolina last Sunday, a 45-year-old man slaughtered 10 people in a nursing home.
On March 10, a 28-year-old man in Alabama killed 10 people, including his own mother, before taking his own life.
A few days later in Miami, a man shot and killed five people, including his estranged wife and himself.
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I want to know how a towel head got a egg roll to go all jihad on newyork.
how dumb does he think we are?
PS the names used above were not ment to be racist...