The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Down Range Cafe => Topic started by: Hazcat on April 08, 2009, 08:24:25 AM
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First, this is NOT the ship Deepwater is on. He does work for Mearsk but on a different ship (The Rhode Island). I talked to him a couple of days ago and he was in Japan. He sent me a DVD on these pirates. I will watch it tonight and give y'all a report on it. - Haz
By Daniel Wallis
NAIROBI (Reuters) - Somali pirates hijacked a U.S.-flagged, Danish-owned container ship on Wednesday with 20 American crew on board in the latest of a sharp rise in attacks off the Horn of Africa nation, officials said.
Andrew Mwangura, coordinator of the Mombasa-based East African Seafarers' Assistance Program, told Reuters the 17,000 ton Maersk Alabama had been seized off Mogadishu far out in the Indian Ocean, but all its crew were believed to be safe.
Denmark's A.P. Moller-Maersk confirmed that the U.S.-flagged Maersk Alabama had been attacked by pirates about 500 km (300 miles) off Somalia and had probably been hijacked. The company said it had 20 American crew on board.
The Maersk Alabama is owned and operated by Maersk Line Ltd, a Norfolk, Virginia-based subsidiary of A.P. Moller-Maersk and the world's biggest container shipper.
A Moller-Maersk spokesman said it had been carrying general goods to Mombasa from Djibouti when it was attacked.
A U.S. naval spokeswoman in Bahrain, Lt. Stephanie Murdock, said a U.S.-flagged, Danish-owned ship reported being attacked by pirates early on Wednesday about 280 miles southeast of Eyl, Somalia.
In the latest wave of pirate attacks, gunmen from Somalia seized a British-owned ship on Monday after hijacking another three vessels over the weekend.
In the first three months of 2009 just eight ships were hijacked in the busy Gulf of Aden, which links Europe to Asia and the eastern Indian Ocean through the Suez Canal.
Last year, heavily armed Somali pirates hijacked dozens of vessels, took hundreds of sailors hostage -- often for weeks -- and extracted millions of dollars in ransoms.
MORE ATTACKS
Foreign navies rushed warships to the area in response and reduced the number of successful attacks. But there are still near-daily attempts and the pirates have also started hunting further afield near the Seychelles.
On Monday, they hijacked a British-owned, Italian-operated ship with 16 Bulgarian crew on board.
Over the weekend, they also seized a French yacht, a Yemeni tug and a 20,000-tonne German container vessel. Interfax news agency said the Hansa Stavanger had a German captain, three Russians, two Ukrainians and 14 Filipinos on board.
The pirates typically launch speed boats from "mother ships," meaning they can sometimes evade warships patrolling the strategic shipping lanes and strike far out to sea.
They then take captured vessels to remote coastal village bases in Somalia, where they have usually treated their hostages well in anticipation of a sizeable ransom payment.
Pirates stunned the shipping industry last year when they seized a Saudi supertanker loaded with $100 million worth of crude oil. The Sirius Star and its 25 crew members were freed in January after $3 million was parachuted onto its deck.
Last September, they seized a Ukrainian cargo ship carrying 33 Soviet-era T-72 tanks and other heavy weapons. It was released in February, reportedly for a $3.2 million ransom.
Many of the pirates are based in northern Somalia's semi-autonomous Puntland region, where the authorities called on Wednesday for more funds to tackle the gangs onshore.
"It's better for the international community to give us $1 million to clear out the pirates on the ground, instead of paying millions of dollars to keep the warships at sea," Puntland's security minister, Abdullahi Said Samatar, told Reuters.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090408/D97E8SPO0.html
I guess BHO will now ask the UN to do someting about the pirates. ::)
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Heard on the news that the difference with this incident is that "Americans don't pay ransom". I am wondering if that is really true. I hope that it isn't the case that our guys now get the shaft cause no one will buy them out of bondage. And I don't think ya can count on BHO to shoot them free either.
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Heard on the news that the difference with this incident is that "Americans don't pay ransom". I am wondering if that is really true. I hope that it isn't the case that our guys now get the shaft cause no one will buy them out of bondage. And I don't think ya can count on BHO to shoot them free either.
This is really nothing new, Research the war with the Barbary Pirates. Ransom was a mistake then, (Not that I think BO is another Jefferson :( )
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Just on the news said the crew had taken the ship back, one pirate in crew custody, three in the water,"walk the plank you scum dogs!" Bet you they didn't take the ship back with ransom money or touchy feely speeches, probably good old Remington and Mossberg had their backs.
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Reports coming in to the cable news channels...The American crewmen appear to have taken back control of the ship and the pirates are "in the water". One pirate may have been captured. Way to go !!!
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Just on the news said the crew had taken the ship back, one pirate in crew custody, three in the water,"walk the plank you scum dogs!" Bet you they didn't take the ship back with ransom money or touchy feely speeches, probably good old Remington and Mossberg had their backs.
Well what do you expect....... you wouldn't expect a ship named after a good ol' southern state not to fight back......
Maybe it'll send the pirates a message......
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This is really nothing new, Research the war with the Barbary Pirates. Ransom was a mistake then, (Not that I think BO is another Jefferson :( )
George Jefferson, maybe...
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Sooner or latter they are going piss a country off big time, and they are going to get all the money they want, in the form of scrap lead ;)
I personally like this type of negotations
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oKwg6W05MU
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090408/ap_on_re_af/piracy
Crew on US ship say Somali pirates hold captain
By KATHARINE HOURELD, Associated Press Writer Katharine Houreld, Associated Press Writer – 37 mins ago
NAIROBI, Kenya – The American crew of a hijacked U.S.-flagged ship retook control of the vessel from Somali pirates Wednesday but the captain was still being held hostage in a lifeboat hundreds of miles off the Horn of Africa, crew members said.
U.S. officials said an American warship and a half-dozen other ships were headed to the scene.
Ship operator Maersk Lines Limited confirmed that the crew had taken back the 17,000-ton Maersk Alabama and were unharmed but the captain was being held by pirates away from the cargo ship.
"They're on another boat," spokesman Kevin Speers said. He gave no other details.
The second-in-command, Capt. Shane Murphy of Seekonk, Massachusetts, called his wife at 10 a.m EDT and told her that pirates had taken over the ship, which was carrying food aid for Africa, before dawn local time.
Murphy said that he was now in charge because pirates had taken away the captain, Serena Murphy, 31, told The Associated Press from her front doorstep.
The vessel had 20 U.S. nationals onboard before the hijacking, Maersk said.
Andrea Phillips, the wife of Capt. Richard Phillips of Underhill, Vermont, said her husband had sailed in the waters off Somalia "for quite some time" and a hijacking was perhaps "inevitable."
"They've been relatively safe, for the most part. I guess maybe it was inevitable," she said. "My husband is a pretty smart man. He knows the protocol. He'll do what he needs to do to keep the crew safe."
Colin Wright, who identified himself as a third mate aboard the ship, told the AP by phone that, "Somalian pirates have one of our crew members in our lifeboat and we are trying to recover that crew member."
At one point, the pirates had held the boat and the entire crew of Americans. Wright said: "We're really busy right now, but you can call back in an hour or two."
The U.S. Navy said that the ship was hijacked early Wednesday about 280 miles (450 kilometers) southeast of Eyl, a town in the northern Puntland region of Somalia.
U.S. Navy spokesman Lt. Nathan Christensen said the closest U.S. ship at the time of the hijacking was 345 miles (555 kilometers)away.
The Navy established a command center in Norfolk, Virginia, to relay information between the company and government officials and Navy field operations in the region. They were in constant communication throughout the evening, said Senate Commerce Committee spokeswoman Jena Longo.
President Barack Obama was following the situation closely, foreign policy adviser Denis McDonough said.
U.S. officials said an American Navy destroyer, the USS Bainbridge, was headed for the scene along with at least six other vessels. The Bainbridge was among several U.S. ships, including the cruiser USS Gettysburg, that had been patrolling in the region but were several hours away when the Maersk Alabama was seized.
The Bainbridge is a guided-missile destroyer carrying Tomahawk cruise missiles, torpedoes and two MH-60 Knighthawk helicopters armed with Hellfire missiles.
It was not clear what the military crews would do when they got to the scene. Options could include negotiation, backed by force.
It was the sixth vessel seized within a week, a rise that analysts attribute to a new strategy by Somali pirates operating far from the warships patrolling the busiest shipping lanes in the Gulf of Aden. Cmdr. Jane Campbell, a spokeswoman for the U.S. Navy's Bahrain-based 5th Fleet, said that it was the first pirate attack "involving U.S. nationals and a U.S.-flagged vessel in recent memory." She did not give an exact timeframe.
The ship was carrying emergency food relief to Mombasa, Kenya, when it was hijacked, the Copenhagen-based container shipping group A.P. Moller-Maersk said.
The vessel's manifest showed it was carrying 401 containers of food aid from USAID, Serving God Ministries, the World Food Program and Catholic Relief, said John F. Reinhart, president and CEO of Maersk Line Ltd
Merchant crews aren't supposed to fight pirates, short of using high-pressure hoses to try to stop them from climbing aboard, Reinhart said.
"They (the crews) don't have any weapons, so it would be inappropriate for them to try to be heroes. We'd like them to come home safely," he told a news conference.
Capt. Joseph Murphy, a professor at the Massachusetts Maritime Academy, said his son was a 2001 graduate who recently talked to a class about the dangers of piracy.
The younger Murphy wrote on his Facebook profile that he worked in waters between Oman and Kenya "infested with pirates that highjack (sic) ships daily,"
"I feel like it's only a matter of time before my number gets called," he wrote on the page, which features a photograph of him.
Somali pirates are trained fighters who frequently dress in military fatigues and use speedboats equipped with satellite phones and GPS equipment. They are typically armed with automatic weapons, anti-tank rocket launchers and various types of grenades. Far out to sea, their speedboats operate from larger mother ships.
Since January, pirates have staged 66 attacks, and they are still holding 14 ships and 260 crew members as hostages, according to the International Maritime Bureau, a watchdog group based in Kuala Lumpur.
There are fewer than 200 U.S.-flagged vessels in international waters, said Larry Howard, chair of the Global Business and Transportation Department at SUNY Maritime College in New York.
Roger Middleton, a piracy expert at the London-based think tank Chatham House, said the anti-piracy efforts in the Gulf of Aden have pushed the pirates into the Indian Ocean — a much vaster area where backup is no longer quickly in reach.
"Now that the pirates are launching attacks in the Indian Ocean, they have this huge area," Middleton said.
Ships trying to protect themselves against pirates are recommended to constantly be on the lookout for pirates, travel at full speed, and take evasive procedures such as using water cannons and fire hoses to flood the engines of the pirates' skiffs, Middleton said.
But even those procedures aren't foolproof in the face of pirates often armed with AK-47s and rocket-propelled grenades.
"They have guns, and the crew don't," Middleton said.
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Associated Press writers Jon Resnick in Washington, Ray Henry in Seekonk, Massachusetts; Larry O'Dell in Norfolk, Va. Barbara Surk in Dubai, United Arab Emirates; Pauline Jelinek in Washington; Jan M. Olsen in Copenhagen; Samantha Bomkamp in New York; and Tom Maliti and Anita Powell in Nairobi, Kenya contributed to this report.
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At some point, I hope the PC thing to do goes away, we torpedo dive bomb the motherships ferrying the little junk runabouts that approach the vessels, and unleash a few of these.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZQR3RjXXno&feature=related
If you can bolt one to a suburban a ship will be NO problemo.....
Cargo ships and freighters in WWII, well disguised a few of these,
For longer ranges crank up the level and end this BS!!!!
Music is good too,..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aj7BmegYL7I
What's the problem, this piracy crap can be over in less than a week.
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anyone else see the irony in the fact that the ship had food aid for africa in it?
no more food aid, til the priacy stops.
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anyone else see the irony in the fact that the ship had food aid for africa in it?
no more food aid, til the priacy stops.
International Law regarding piracy "used to be" clear cut, and goes back to the Vikings, Phonecians, Greeks, etc,...
The cargo is irrelevant to these thugs. They want the ransom money.
We suffered a loss in Somalia in the past, ie the "Black Hawk Down Days", its a lawless, brutal rogue nation.
I can;t believe we are putting up with this crap.
The yachts I work on ALL have something for ship defense, except for a few, (mostly the French Catamarans), its better than nothing.
It's time to take these maritime gangbanger wannabe's down.....
Some have a freakin arsenal.
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Time to resurrect the "Q" ships of WW1 vintage 8).
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International Law regarding piracy "used to be" clear cut, and goes back to the Vikings, Phonecians, Greeks, etc,...
The cargo is irrelevant to these thugs. They want the ransom money.
We suffered a loss in Somalia in the past, ie the "Black Hawk Down Days", its a lawless, brutal rogue nation.
I can;t believe we are putting up with this crap.
The yachts I work on ALL have something for ship defense, except for a few, (mostly the French Catamarans), its better than nothing.
It's time to take these maritime gangbanger wannabe's down.....
Some have a freakin arsenal.
Somalia is not a "rogue Regime" that indicates a government, even if composed of crooks. Somalia has not had a government for 20 years. It is the total anarchy that the dems are trying to turn America into. (That is not their intention, but it is what will result from their policies. )
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It really does mystify why these ships aren't armed. Would seem to be vastly cheaper to hire a company to put say 4 guys with crew served weapons on board while the vessl was in the hot zone. Something like a BMG would vastly outrange RPGs and give a nice steady platform It's not likese guys are suicide bombers, they're in it for the green. The tracers start hitting the water 1/3 of mile off, you'd think they'go elsewhere.
FQ13
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Some ports will not allow armed vessels. Not even small arms.
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Some ports will not allow armed vessels. Not even small arms.
I'm wondering if this is true. I've heard both sides One is saying what Haz is. The other has said international commercial vessles can carry what they want as long as its declared and stays on board. Anyone familiar with maratime law out there?
FQ13
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I'm wondering if this is true. I've heard both sides One is saying what Haz is. The other has said international commercial vessles can carry what they want as long as its declared and stays on board. Anyone familiar with maratime law out there?
FQ13
Haz Cheats, He gets his info from Deepwater , who BETTER be familiar with maritime law ;D
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Haz Cheats, He gets his info from Deepwater , who BETTER be familiar with maritime law ;D
Yep! and my GF is a sailor (sailed from LA then all over the Carribean and South America for 10 years.)
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quote from tombogan,...
Somalia is not a "rogue Regime" that indicates a government, even if composed of crooks. Somalia has not had a government for 20 years. It is the total anarchy that the dems are trying to turn America into. (That is not their intention, but it is what will result from their policies. )
I stand corrected, you are correct, it is a lawless part of Africa that was not turned to dust years ago, we as a nation were given a "black eye" by Somalia, and "ran away", for lack of a better term, it wasn't the military that wanted to carpet bomb the freakin wasteland, it was the POLITICIANS.
Now the UN has regulated piracy laws, how's that gonna work?
Ports don;t allow armed vessels, than they don't get the commerce.
Ports lie elsewhere, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, they are (believe it or not), are Pro-American. US Navy needs some good backup here.
As far as maritime law,...
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/blackwater.html
Blackwater 2.0: Hired Guns on the High Seas
By Nathan Hodge EmailOctober 27, 2008 | 8:58:00 AMCategories: Mercs
Blackwater3_2 Blackwater Worldwide President and CEO Erik Prince hit the talk show circuit yesterday to pitch his company's pirate-fighting expertise. The waters off the coast of Somalia have seen a surge in piracy, and Prince said Blackwater is now in 'active discussions' to provide hired muscle for over a dozen commercial shipping lines.
Earlier this month, the company announced that the McArthur, a former oceanographic research ship, was on call to fight piracy in the Gulf of Aden
Open seas, in International Waters have different reg's regarding firearms, the ports of call, however, can regulate known firearm laden vessels, customs and International Trade, Free Trade Zones, and of course the United Nations, have "made the waters murky"
regarding entry.
That;s why its better to get them in the open ocean.
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this won't happen but here is how you deal with the current situation. Pull up a battleship, demand the return of the Captain and the other guy they have from the ship, they will not return him without the money, bombard the port, demand the return of the two captives/hostages, repeat as necessary. The captives/hostages will be returned (hopefully alive) but they wont mess with U.S. flagged ships anymore. No one wants that headache. It sounds absolute but I think that's how the Barbary pirates were dealt with.
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Some ports will not allow armed vessels. Not even small arms.
most ports will not allow them, most of ours will only allow them if they are owned by US citz.
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quote from tombogan,...
Somalia is not a "rogue Regime" that indicates a government, even if composed of crooks. Somalia has not had a government for 20 years. It is the total anarchy that the dems are trying to turn America into. (That is not their intention, but it is what will result from their policies. )
I stand corrected, you are correct, it is a lawless part of Africa that was not turned to dust years ago, we as a nation were given a "black eye" by Somalia, and "ran away", for lack of a better term, it wasn't the military that wanted to carpet bomb the freakin wasteland, it was the POLITICIANS.
Now the UN has regulated piracy laws, how's that gonna work?
Ports don;t allow armed vessels, than they don't get the commerce.
Ports lie elsewhere, Kuwait, Qatar, Oman, they are (believe it or not), are Pro-American. US Navy needs some good backup here.
As far as maritime law,...
http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/10/blackwater.html
Blackwater 2.0: Hired Guns on the High Seas
By Nathan Hodge EmailOctober 27, 2008 | 8:58:00 AMCategories: Mercs
Blackwater3_2 Blackwater Worldwide President and CEO Erik Prince hit the talk show circuit yesterday to pitch his company's pirate-fighting expertise. The waters off the coast of Somalia have seen a surge in piracy, and Prince said Blackwater is now in 'active discussions' to provide hired muscle for over a dozen commercial shipping lines.
Earlier this month, the company announced that the McArthur, a former oceanographic research ship, was on call to fight piracy in the Gulf of Aden
Open seas, in International Waters have different reg's regarding firearms, the ports of call, however, can regulate known firearm laden vessels, customs and International Trade, Free Trade Zones, and of course the United Nations, have "made the waters murky"
regarding entry.
That;s why its better to get them in the open ocean.
Thanks. This what I was talking about. Not individual sailors bringing a piece but company security guys.
FQ13
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Somebody would have to grow some nuts. NO CHANCE >:(
this won't happen but here is how you deal with the current situation. Pull up a battleship, demand the return of the Captain and the other guy they have from the ship, they will not return him without the money, bombard the port, demand the return of the two captives/hostages, repeat as necessary. The captives/hostages will be returned (hopefully alive) but they wont mess with U.S. flagged ships anymore. No one wants that headache. It sounds absolute but I think that's how the Barbary pirates were dealt with.
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To pra phrase TR, "We want the hostages returned alive or the hostage takers DEAD."
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To pra phrase TR, "We want the hostages returned alive or the hostage takers DEAD."
Remember that this isn't WWI or WWII where soliders wanted to live even though they were willing to lay their lives down for someone else. Today many of those we fight have already decided they are dead, and some of them see it as a good thing to die in the act.
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Remember that this isn't WWI or WWII where soliders wanted to live even though they were willing to lay their lives down for someone else. Today many of those we fight have already decided they are dead, and some of them see it as a good thing to die in the act.
So whats wrong with helping them achieve that goal ?
Pirates should be either shot on capture or tried and hung.
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So whats wrong with helping them achieve that goal ?
Pirates should be either shot on capture or tried and hung.
No problem with your thoughts at all, but the idea that strength will get someone back alive is not very possible anymore I fear.
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Remember that this isn't WWI or WWII where soliders wanted to live even though they were willing to lay their lives down for someone else. Today many of those we fight have already decided they are dead, and some of them see it as a good thing to die in the act.
Pirates and terrorists are two different things. Pirates will not lay their lives down for money, they don't already think of themselves as dead, they are just playing the odds like most everyone else. Now terrorists...
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No problem with your thoughts at all, but the idea that strength will get someone back alive is not very possible anymore I fear.
It won't get THAT victim back, but there will not be any more from THOSE BG's and eventually they will get the idea that the payoff is not worth the consequences.
It worked the last time there were pirate problems.
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Just was watching CNN (forgive me Lord :) ) and they were interviewing Capt. Murphy who is the father of one of the officers on the Alabama. He is an instructor also at the Mass. Maritime Academy. The father teaches the young sailors a course on hijacking and pirates. As part of the course they do have small arms training. They showed the kids shooting handguns on the Academy range. I am pleasantly surpised that they are realistic about firearms.
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To pra phrase TR, "We want the hostages returned alive or and the hostage takers DEAD."
fixed
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Obama declines comment on US hostage crisis off Somalia
Thu Apr 9, 2009 10:18am EDT Email | Print | Share| Reprints | Single Page[-] Text
WASHINGTON, April 9 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama declined to answer reporters' questions on Thursday on a hostage crisis off the coast of Somalia, where a U.S. ship captain is being held captive by pirates.
Obama was asked to comment on the situation several times by reporters at a White House event on refinancing for homeowners. Obama, however, stuck closely to the script and replied that he wanted to remain focused on housing.
http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSWBT01101720090409
%$&#*@&%! Milque Toast Administration!
BHole says NOTHING about it
Kerry wants to 'debate' it.
Clinton laughs while dancing around it
Holden is 'not sure' what to do
Then there was the stellar response to N Koreas' missle launch (**crickets**)
and BOWING to a foreign potentate
and.....................
MAKES ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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%$&#*@&%! Milque Toast Administration!
BHole says NOTHING about it
MAKES ME SICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Haz
You are 100% wrong on this point at least. This is an ongoing hostage stand off. These guys have sat phones and are in contact with their guys who are sure as hell watching tv on web. If POTUS starts thumping his chest, it could undercut any strategy the navy is employing. Right now the smart thing todo is shut the hell up, and let the commander of the destroyer do his job. After our guy is out, and or the pirates are dead is the time for ultimatums. Right now any statment in MHO would be tactically stupid and irresponsible.
FQ13
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I just pulled this in from Reuters. I swear I'm not making it up. Lets all pray for our little friends.
FQ13 Who is composing his prayer, justice, a speedy passage, 77 virgins, the ability to swim 250 miles, sharks, SEALS with rebreathers at 3 am? So many options.
Reached by Reuters via satellite phone, the pirates on the lifeboat sounded desperate. "We are surrounded by warships and don't have time to talk," one said. "Please pray for us."
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If we get these pirates, which I am sure we will, I'm sure BHO will try with all his might to get someone else to try these pirates. He will try to pawn them off on Kenya or the Hague. That is one thing I liked with the previous Prez.: he would just take these guys, send them to Gitmo, give them a trial (tribunal) sooner or later, and go from there, if some other country wanted to do it a process would have been set up to find who. BHO will try to find someone else to do our work for us, You mark my words.
I hope that makes sense.
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I'll pray for him, Dear Lord, please don't let him make the sharks puke, Amen
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hang the dirty rat bastards!!!! we had navy personnel aboard for passage through the persian gulf, and they say that many of these guys are being chased down right to their own homes and 'taken care of' and so it should be. apparently they haven't done a well enough job. anyway, in the 'VERY' politically incorrect opinion of all that I work with, these guys should not even rate a trial. we catch you in the act, you die.
yeah, so, anyway, I guess the cat's out of the bag now isn't it, Deepwater is nuts.
good night
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If you have pirates on the high seas leave them to the US Navy. They know what to do. Give the commanders the authority to strike inland. A few 500 pounders every now and then should do the trick.
This plague would soon go away.
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hang the dirty rat bastards!!!! we had navy personnel aboard for passage through the persian gulf, and they say that many of these guys are being chased down right to their own homes and 'taken care of' and so it should be. apparently they haven't done a well enough job. anyway, in the 'VERY' politically incorrect opinion of all that I work with, these guys should not even rate a trial. we catch you in the act, you die.
yeah, so, anyway, I guess the cat's out of the bag now isn't it, Deepwater is nuts.
good night
I take that to me that if they retreated to the water from YOU it would be WITHOUT the lifeboats ? ;D
Works for me.
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ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
Send 'em to Davey Jones locker!
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I take that to me that if they retreated to the water from YOU it would be WITHOUT the lifeboats ? ;D
Works for me.
Only if they are more than, say...oh...35 miles from the coast.
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My belated $.02,
The term "pirate" is a euphemism for Muslim.
In dealing with Infidels (we'uns), there are only three options found in the Queran, or, as we say it here, the Kor-ann..
1. Conversion to Islam.
2. Payment of tribute and submission.
3 Death.
The pirates are simply practicing the their faith. The so called nation where they dwell stands fully behind them in faith regardless of tribal strife within. Until the West faces the true threat against us we will continue to absorb damage until we helplessly fall into option 2, above.
Mac.
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My belated $.02,
The term "pirate" is a euphemism for Muslim.
In dealing with Infidels (we'uns), there are only three options found in the Queran, or, as we say it here, the Kor-ann..
1. Conversion to Islam.
2. Payment of tribute and submission.
3 Death.
The pirates are simply practicing the their faith. The so called nation where they dwell stands fully behind them in faith regardless of tribal strife within. Until the West faces the true threat against us we will continue to absorb damage until we helplessly fall into option 2, above.
Mac.
You are so right. The sheeple who think of them like bubba next door have got the wrong mindset. I never thought they'd get it after 911...unfortunately I was right.
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None of you know about the brilliant mind of Borak "I got your back" Obama.
He and his "team" are waiting for day 445 to make the big move.
Relax and go do something else. ;D
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Geez.......this thread is making me seriously consider changing my avatar............ :o :o :o :o
8)
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Geez.......this thread is making me seriously consider changing my avatar............ :o :o :o :o
8)
It is kind of dated. Me, I think you'd look good in a Somali skirt (kilt, damnit, kilt) and a turban. ;D
FQ13
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None of you know about the brilliant mind of Borak "I got your back" Obama.
He and his "team" are waiting for day 445 to make the big move.
Relax and go do something else. ;D
445?
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445?
carter was shown to be a helpless ass for 444 days when the Iranians took the Embassy hostages, They were released as soon as Reagan was sworn in, (within minutes ) The ridiculously under funded military failed in their rescue attempt because they could not afford proper sand filters for the helo's and wound up at Desert one with out enough airlift to complete the mission, a collision between a helo and one of the fixed wing A/C turned clusterf&$k into tragedy. It defined carters whiney foreign policy and guaranteed he would be a one term loser.
He, like this current POS wanted to "talk" to people who wanted to destroy our culture.
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Perfect analysis, Tom.
Mac.
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Tom, you nailed it once again.
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Yep Nailed 8)
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FoxNews is reporting that the Captain has been rescued. Can you say Delta? Can you say Seals? We will never know for sure . . .
Hallelujah! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514719,00.html (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514719,00.html)
Ship Captain Rescued From Somali Pirates
Sunday, April 12, 2009
Reuters
American sea Captain Richard Phillips was rescued from four Somali pirates Sunday, a U.S. intelligence official said.
Three pirates were killed and one was in custody after what appeared to be a swift firefight off the Somali coast, the official said.
Phillips, who was not hurt, was safely transported to a Navy warship nearby.
The official was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity.
Talks began Thursday with the captain of the USS Bainbridge talking to the pirates under instruction from FBI hostage negotiators on board the U.S. destroyer.
U.S. warships and helicopters stalked the lifeboat holding Phillips and his four Somali captors Sunday, while his crew briefed FBI agents about how they fought off the pirates who boarded their ship, the Maersk Alabama.
The Associated Press contributed to this report.
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OHH RAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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God Bless the Navy SEALS..
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Seals are not mentioned - updated version of above story on Fox says "Initial reports indicate Phillips jumped overboard for a second time and the military was able to take advantage of the situation."
Update - forgot to include this piece of insanity FTA: "Asked whether the pirate arrested will now be brought to the U.S. for prosecution, the Department of Justice told FOX News, they will be "reviewing the evidence and other issues to determine whether to seek prosecution in the United States.""
Go for the 9mm solution, morons, simpler and sends a message.
I recall a story out of Lebanon during the 70's when it seemed everyone under the sun was being kidnapped by some extremist - er - peace loving mooslim group. One of the sheiks made the mistake of kidnapping a Russian diplomat's son, probably the local KGB wonk. Son of sheik subsequently kidnapped and then returned to daddy next day unable to talk. Seems his genitals had been stuffed into his mouth. That, and he was dead too.
Russkie diplomat's son released the next day.
Send the message, it will be heard. But we have klintoon 2.0 in charge, so we will try him and probably release him for lack of evidence or because of his poor, miserable, neglected/abused upbringing.
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However it happened thank God. And lets hope the navy takes advantage of the other pirates who were dumb enough to leave port with their captured ships and hostages to "rescue" their comrades. If this plays out well we could get three ships back and underscorethe fact that these guys need to find another line of work.
FQ13
PS I posted this on the songs thread. I will post ithere as well, as it seems an appropiate Easter greetings to those gentlemen. What more could they want? Gillian Welsh, Allison Kraus, Emmylou Harris, and oh yeah, the SEALs. ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nd_mI08B5k0&feature=related
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Power of Prayer, What a great Easter Blessing.
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Navy is going to a news conference a little later this afternoon. Heard on Fox that the rescue involved SEAL snipers. Way to go !!! I would suspect that once the Captain was in the water that the lifeboat was riddled with .50 cal. !!!
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Proud too be a INFIDEL!!!!!
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Seals are not mentioned - updated version of above story on Fox says "Initial reports indicate Phillips jumped overboard for a second time and the military was able to take advantage of the situation."
Update - forgot to include this piece of insanity FTA: "Asked whether the pirate arrested will now be brought to the U.S. for prosecution, the Department of Justice told FOX News, they will be "reviewing the evidence and other issues to determine whether to seek prosecution in the United States.""
Go for the 9mm solution, morons, simpler and sends a message.
I recall a story out of Lebanon during the 70's when it seemed everyone under the sun was being kidnapped by some extremist - er - peace loving mooslim group. One of the sheiks made the mistake of kidnapping a Russian diplomat's son, probably the local KGB wonk. Son of sheik subsequently kidnapped and then returned to daddy next day unable to talk. Seems his genitals had been stuffed into his mouth. That, and he was dead too.
Russkie diplomat's son released the next day.
Send the message, it will be heard. But we have klintoon 2.0 in charge, so we will try him and probably release him for lack of evidence or because of his poor, miserable, neglected/abused upbringing.
His head and genitals (only ;D ) were left on Daddy's door step, hostage was released and no other Soviet diplomat was ever bothered.
We "negotiated, It cost us 2 major embassy bombings, the Marine Barracks bombing and the kidnap and murder of the CIA station Cheif, William Buckley who was sold to Iran and tortured to death by the followers of the "religion of peace".
Those animals should be exterminated like the vermin they are.
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All politics and issues of justice aside, the smart thing to do is try him in the Hague. Why? If its an international tribunal then it becomes everyone's problem, not just the US vs Somalia. It also will send a message to these idiots that there isn't a nation on God's green earth (Saudi Arabia included) that has time or patience for them. Whether they hang him from the nearest yard arm or give him a few years in the brig is irellevant. He isn't a terrorist mastermind, he's the Somali equivilent of a gang banger and there's ten thousand more just like him. What we need to do is build an international consensus that these guys need to be dealt with. This is important because when (not if, but when) we go after their land bases its going to be ugly with lots of collateral damage and dead hostages. It is good strategy to make sure that the world is with us BEFORE we do it.
FQ13
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Boris Yeltsin DIED waiting for his years and years long trial to go on an on and on. Even though the whole planet knew he was guilty.
Maybe that is good enough for the pirates.
I thought the Saddam trial was a good model, have your days in court; before we hang you anyway....
IMHO, I wish all the pirates would have resisted. The result would have been more permanent.
Hanging by the nearest yardarm would send a message the other pirates would understand.
A trial by a bunch of UN appointed nimrods? That's not justice.
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wOOt!! wOOt!
Trample the weak, hurdle the dead!
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In May of 1972, the US Navy and Air Force attacked, and upon withdrawing, mined the entrance to Haiphong Harbor, North Vietnam's major port. Closed the shop. Drag out the plans and do it again. The SEALS that did the target spotting are long retired, but we know their kids are on the job, don't we. Perhaps this time there might be more concerned countries involved. This is the time to act.
Mac.
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Ten words...
Go Navy and God Bless the United States of America!
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Boris Yeltsin DIED waiting for his years and years long trial to go on an on and on. Even though the whole planet knew he was guilty.
Maybe that is good enough for the pirates.A trial by a bunch of UN appointed nimrods? That's not justice.
Its not about justice. This guy is a foot soldier. He lives, he dies, it doesn't change a thing. What will bring about a change is the UN declaring these guys international criminals. That greenlights them and gives us the diplomatic cover we need to do something that will be very messy. We want the blood on as many hands as possible so folks can't blame US alone. As far as Boris Yeltsin, I think you mean Slobadan Milosevic (I'm not going to even pretend to know how to spell that).
FQ13
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I'm so Proud to live in the same state as our Hero Captain.
God Love the USA and The Green Mountains of Vermont
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Slobodan Milošević.....I was gonna mention that too...
Yeltsin died in 2007 after a long life of alcoholism and bad health...the worst thing he did was leave Russia in the hands of an ex-KGB agent, Putin...
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They just had the Navy news conf. with an Admiral...had to laugh...he started out saying he wouldn't talk about operational details but by the time the conf was over...well...he blabbed about all of it...:) ...seems there were 4 SEAL snipers that were flown in to the Bainbridge from the African command. They were on the fantail of the Bainbridge. They had talked the pirates into having the Bainbridge tow the lifeboat to calmer waters. So it was on a line about 25 meters from the fantail. When the three pirates on board the lifeboat all were visible (one or two just had to be nosey and popped there heads out of a hatch) the snipers took simultaneous shots. Killing all three. The fourth one was on board the Bainbridge 'negiotiating' and was taken prisoner. Some dumb ass reporter asked how DIFFICULT was it for the snipers to take such a shot...25 METERS ... errr let's see...NOT !!!
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US sea capt. freed from pirates in swift firefight
By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY and LARA JAKES, Associated Press Writers Elizabeth A. Kennedy And Lara Jakes, Associated Press Writers – 10 mins ago
MOMBASA, Kenya – U.S. Navy snipers opened fire and killed three pirates holding an American captain at gunpoint, delivering the skipper unharmed and ending a five-day high-seas hostage drama on Easter Sunday.
Capt. Richard Phillips was in "imminent danger" of being killed before snipers shot the pirates in an operation authorized by President Barack Obama, Vice Adm. Bill Gortney said.
He said the pirates were armed with AK-47s and small-caliber pistols and were pointing the rifles at the captain when the commander of the nearby USS Bainbridge gave the order to open fire.
Gortney, the commander of U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, said the White House had given "very clear guidance and authority" to take action if Phillips' life was in danger.
Phillips' crew, who said they had escaped after he offered himself as a hostage, erupted in cheers aboard their ship docked in Mombasa, Kenya. Some waved an American flag and fired flares in celebration.
Phillips, 53, of Underhill, Vermont, was not hurt in several minutes of gunfire and the U.S. Navy's 5th Fleet said he was resting comfortably on a U.S. warship after receiving a medical exam.
"I'm just the byline. The real heroes are the Navy, the Seals, those who have brought me home," Phillips said by phone to Maersk Line Limited President and CEO John Reinhart, the company head told reporters. A photo released by the Navy showed Phillips unharmed and shaking hands with the commanding officer of the Bainbridge
Obama said Phillips had courage that was "a model for all Americans" and he was pleased about the rescue, adding that the United States needs help from other countries to deal with the threat of piracy and to hold pirates accountable.
The Defense Department twice asked Obama for permission to use military force to rescue Phillips, most recently late Friday evening, U.S. officials said. On Saturday morning, Obama signed off on the Pentagon's request, as he had a day earlier, said the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal deliberations.
The Navy said Phillips was freed at 7:19 p.m. local time. He was taken aboard the Norfolk, Virginia-based Bainbridge and then flown to the San Diego-based USS Boxer for the medical exam, 5th Fleet spokesman Lt. Nathan Christensen said.
Gortney said Richard Phillips was found to be in good health and suffered no apparent injuries despite being "tied up inside the lifeboat" over much of the ordeal. The USS Boxer was in the Indian Ocean off the coast of Somalia, Christensen said.
U.S. officials said a fourth pirate had surrendered and was in military custody. FBI spokesman John Miller said that would change as the situation became "more of a criminal issue than a military issue."
A spokeswoman for the Phillips family, Alison McColl, said Phillips and his wife, Andrea, spoke by phone shortly after he was freed.
"I think you can all imagine their joy and what a happy moment that was for them," McColl said outside of the Phillips home in Underhill. "They're all just so happy and relieved. Andrea wanted me to tell the nation that all of your prayers and good wishes have paid off because Capt. Phillips is safe."
When Phillips' crew heard the news aboard their ship in the port of Mombasa, they placed an American flag over the rail of the top of the Maersk Alabama and whistled and pumped their fists in the air. Crew fired two bright red flares into the sky from the ship.
"We made it!" said crewman ATM Reza, pumping his fist in the air.
"He managed to be in a 120-degree oven for days, it's amazing," said another of about a dozen crew members who came out to talk to reporters. He said the crew found out the captain was released because one of the sailors had been talking to his wife on the phone.
Crew members said their ordeal had begun Wednesday with the Somali pirates hauling themselves up from a small boat bobbing on the surface of the Indian Ocean far below.
As the pirates shot in the air, Phillips told his crew to lock themselves in a cabin and surrendered himself to safeguard his men, crew members said.
Phillips was then held hostage in an enclosed lifeboat that was closely watched by U.S. warships and a helicopter in an increasingly tense standoff. The pirates were believed armed with pistols and AK-47 assault rifles. On Friday, the French navy freed a sailboat seized off Somalia last week by other pirates, but one of the five hostages was killed.
Capt. Joseph Murphy, the father of second-in-command Shane Murphy, thanked Phillips for his bravery.
"Our prayers have been answered on this Easter Sunday," Murphy said. "If not for his incredible personal sacrifice, this kidnapping and act of terror could have turned out much worse."
Murphy said both his family and Phillips' "can now celebrate a joyous Easter together."
"This was an incredible team effort, and I am extremely proud of the tireless efforts of all the men and women who made this rescue possible" Vice Adm. Bill Gortney, commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command, said in a statement.
He called Phillips and his crew "heroic."
Talks to free Phillips began Thursday with the captain of the USS Bainbridge talking to the pirates under instruction from FBI hostage negotiators on board the U.S. destroyer. The pirates had threatened to kill Phillips if attacked.
A government official and others in Somalia with knowledge of the situation had reported hours earlier that negotiations for Phillips' release had broken down.
Three U.S. warships were within easy reach of the lifeboat on Saturday. The U.S. Navy had assumed the pirates would try to get their hostage to shore, where they could have hidden him on Somalia's lawless soil and been in a stronger position to negotiate a ransom.
"The Somali government wanted the drama to end in a peaceful way, but any one who is involved in this latest case had the choice to use violence or other means," Abdulkhadir Walayo, the prime minister's spokesman, told The Associated Press. "Any way, we see it will be a good lesson for the pirates or any one else involved in this dirty business."
Jamac Habeb, a 30-year-old pirate, said that the killing of the three pirates was "a painful experience."
"This is unfortunate action and our friends should have done more to kill the captain before they were killed. This will be a good lesson for us," Habeb told the AP from one of Somalia's piracy hubs, Eyl.
Residents of Harardhere, another port and pirate stronghold, were gathering in the streets after news of the captain's release, saying they fear pirates may now retaliate against some of the 200 hostages they still hold.
"We fear more that any revenge taken by the pirates against foreign nationals could bring more attacks from the foreign navies, perhaps on our villages," Abdullahi Haji Jama, who owns a clothes store in Harardhere, told the AP by telephone.
Phillips jumped out of the lifeboat Friday and tried to swim for his freedom but was recaptured when a pirate fired an automatic weapon at or near him, according to U.S. Defense Department officials speaking on condition of anonymity because they are not authorized to talk about the unfolding operations.
Early Saturday, the pirates holding Phillips in the lifeboat fired a few shots at a small U.S. Navy vessel that had approached, a U.S. military official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the matter publicly.
The official said the U.S. sailors did not return fire, the Navy vessel turned away and no one was hurt. He said the vessel had not been attempting a rescue.
The district commissioner of the central Mudug region said talks on freeing Phillips had gone on all day Saturday, with clan elders from his area talking by satellite telephone and through a translator with Americans, but collapsed late Saturday night.
Phillips' crew of 19 American sailors reached safe harbor in Kenya's northeast port of Mombasa about the same time under guard of U.S. Navy Seals, exhilarated by their freedom but mourning the absence of Phillips.
Pirates are holding about a dozen ships with more than 200 crew members, according to the Malaysia-based piracy watchdog International Maritime Bureau. Hostages are from Bulgaria, China, Germany, Indonesia, Italy, the Philippines, Russia, Taiwan, Tuvalu and Ukraine, among other countries.
A spokesman for the German anti-piracy operation told the AP that the U.S. did not give any clue as to its plans in regard to the ship captain.
He had no details on the fate of the German freighter Hansa Stavanger, which was captured earlier this month or on the fate of its 24 crew of five Germans, three Russians, two Ukrainians, two Filipinos and 12 Tuvalu residents.
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Jakes reported from Washington. Associated Press writers who contributed to this report include Mohamed Olad Hassan and Mohamed Sheikh Nor in Mogadishu, Somalia; Michelle Faul and Tom Maliti in Nairobi, Kenya; Matt Apuzzo in Washington, John Curran in Underhill, Vermont, Matt Moore in Berlin and Dena Potter in Norfolk, Virginia.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy;_ylt=AprmOzXu24KDCaREAufVtDCs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTI3bTN2ZjA0BGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDEyL3BpcmFjeQRjcG9zAzEEcG9zAzMEc2VjA3luX3RvcF9zdG9yeQRzbGsDZnVsbG5ic3BzdG9y
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Outstanding. 8)
I'm anxious to get hear the real AAR on this.... precision marksmanship from an unstable platform is tough.... from one and onto another is seriously difficult... synchronizing 3 shooters under those conditions onto real people would be an Easter Miracle.
-RJP
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Don't change your avatar PegLeg. These punk pirates didn't even have wenches.
(http://i296.photobucket.com/albums/mm182/twyacht/Pirates.jpg)
Remember, unless you have a wench or two, your just a punkass wannabe.
Keep your avatar. Captain Morgan would be proud.
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I guess I might as well keep it a while longer....besides, how many pirates have you seen holding matched 1911's?
8)
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Its not about justice. This guy is a foot soldier. He lives, he dies, it doesn't change a thing. What will bring about a change is the UN declaring these guys international criminals. That greenlights them and gives us the diplomatic cover we need to do something that will be very messy. We want the blood on as many hands as possible so folks can't blame US alone. As far as Boris Yeltsin, I think you mean Slobadan Milosevic (I'm not going to even pretend to know how to spell that).
FQ13
Just. Plain. Wrong.
You don't seem to get it. We DON"T GIVE A DAMN what the hague or international courts think! Good guys KILL bad guys. REAL NASTY if we need to leave a message. It is the ONLY thing these muslim barbarians understand. Strength, power, and THE WILL TO USE IT!
Wrap yer head around that.
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As thankful as I am that this is resolved and came with a positive ending, the media is getting to me.
First reports in our area papers were "President Obama personally ordered rescue," followed by "President Obama personally approved action." If you read the report it says snipers were in place on the fantail (I'm sure standard procedure for the situation), one pirate was in talks with U.S. military, the other three were holding the Captain in the boat with am AK 47 at the back of his head, the Naval Commander feared for the Captains safety and ordered the snipers to take them.
Apparently this makes our new President a military genius and a force to be feared by our enemies. Is this the same buy that wants to cut our military and disarm both our military and citizens?
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Sorry, I had the wrong eastern bloc tyrant..... It was Slobo Milosavich.
My mistake, I apologize.
The point of having the UN give a PASS to do what should be done anyway? These are International Commerce TERRORISTS.
He lives, he dies and as many more as we can take out with flagrant devastating overwhelming force! THAT is what these people understand in Somalia, NOT the Hague, or the UN.
In the past they were regarded as such and dealt with.
I guess I might as well keep it a while longer....besides, how many pirates have you seen holding matched 1911's?
8)
Probably easier to carry than the flintlocks of old,.... ::)
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Just. Plain. Wrong.
You don't seem to get it. We DON"T GIVE A DAMN what the hague or international courts think! Good guys KILL bad guys. REAL NASTY if we need to leave a message. It is the ONLY thing these muslim barbarians understand. Strength, power, and THE WILL TO USE IT!
Wrap yer head around that.
Haz
We are in complete agreement here ON EVERY SINGLE POINT. The point isn't whether, its HOW. You apparently prefer kicking in the door, saying "Lucy I'm home" and then drawing your .45. Me, I prefer 600 yds away with a .300 win mag. Quite frankly "not giving a damn" about what the world thinks isn't patriotic, its just plain dumb. We live in the world that exists, not the one we want to see. What exactly is wrong with using diplomacy to our benefit?
FQ13 who is confused about why trying to round up a posse before going after the bad guys makes the sheriff anything but smart
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Because diplomacy is weakness to the muslims. The UN is a JOKE and there is NO way you can say other wise. Name ONE thing the UN has ever done right.
International courts and opinion are mostly what thug nations think. UN Health and human rights council for one BIG example.
We STOP playing their game. STOP funding the UN, STOP funding nations that are our enemies.
Diplomacy hasn't worked yet and that ain't gonna change.
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Vice-Admiral on telephone interview with Fox news, USS Bainbridge closed within 25 to 30 meters with situations deteriorating.
Snipers took them out, as they pointed their guns at Capt. Phillips head.
25 to 30 meters? Head shots were easy for them...
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Because diplomacy is weakness to the muslims. The UN is a JOKE and there is NO way you can say other wise. Name ONE thing the UN has ever done right.
International courts and opinion are mostly what thug nations think. UN Health and human rights council for one BIG example.
We STOP playing their game. STOP funding the UN, STOP funding nations that are our enemies.
Diplomacy hasn't worked yet and that ain't gonna change.
How about Korea or the first Gulf War? Seriously, man, I don't understand why you are argueing so harshly against someone who agrees with you. The only place we part company is how we go about doing what we both know needs to be done.
FQ13 who suggests drinking a a Hazerita and reading what I've actually written, because brother,when it comes to putting these guys in the ground I am right there with you
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Korea amd Gulf one were disasters (like Nam) brought on by 'diplomacy'.
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Valid point on the UN. It's time to convert that prime piece of real estate into luxury condominiums.
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Vice-Admiral on telephone interview with Fox news, USS Bainbridge closed within 25 to 30 meters with situations deteriorating.
Snipers took them out, as they pointed their guns at Capt. Phillips head.
25 to 30 meters? Head shots were easy for them...
TW,
Remember, shooting from a moving platform at a moving platform. Damn good shooting I think.
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Korea amd Gulf one were disasters (like Nam) brought on by 'diplomacy'.
Sigh.. long and deep.. I really don't want to argue wtih you because in case you haven't been paying attention WE AGREE!!!!!!
But, the first Gulf war, in which many of my fellow cadets served, was a complete success.Kuwait was freed. The sanctions and no fly zones Bush the smarter put into place crippled Sadamm. The US protectoarate of Kurdistan denied him access the the northern part of the country. Oh yeah, he was also denied weapons of mass destruction. Yes he was in power, but since when did it become our job to replace the leaders of foreign states if they could be contained (as he was)? He was a dictator yes, but so are Castro, Chavez and the Chinese, I really don't feel like going to war over it. Haz, I think you have a very black and white view of the world. I would like to offer you a gift. I will send you three books, ones that I learned a whole lot from, and assigned to every class where the could possibly be relevant. They are:
John Stuart Mill "On Liberty"
Thucydides "History of the Pellopanesion War"
Machiavelli "The Prince"
I don't offer these to be patronizing. Quite the reverse. I found my own world view changed by them, and frankly I really believe there is no more sincere gift that you can offer to friend than a good book (although guns and good single malt won't go amiss) If you want to understand who I am and why I beleive what what I do these are the key. This is, after all what debate is about. Not to win an an argument, but to learn and to teach and to walk away a bit wiser for the experience. PM me and I will ship them.
Peace
Fightingquaker13 hopefully a friendly adversary
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Sigh.. long and deep.. I really don't want to argue wtih you because in case you haven't been paying attention WE AGREE!!!!!!
But, the first Gulf war, in which many of my fellow cadets served, was a complete success.Kuwait was freed. The sanctions and no fly zones Bush the smarter put into place crippled Sadamm. The US protectoarate of Kurdistan denied him access the the northern part of the country. Oh yeah, he was also denied weapons of mass destruction. Yes he was in power, but since when did it become our job to replace the leaders of foreign states if they could be contained (as he was)? He was a dictator yes, but so are Castro, Chavez and the Chinese, I really don't feel like going to war over it. Haz, I think you have a very black and white view of the world. I would like to offer you a gift. I will send you three books, ones that I learned a whole lot from, and assigned to every class where the could possibly be relevant. They are:
John Stuart Mill "On Liberty"
Thucydides "History of the Pellopanesion War"
Machiavelli "The Prince"
I don't offer these to be patronizing. Quite the reverse. I found my own world view changed by them, and frankly I really believe there is no more sincere gift that you can offer to friend than a good book (although guns and good single malt won't go amiss) If you want to understand who I am and why I beleive what what I do these are the key. This is, after all what debate is about. Not to win an an argument, but to learn and to teach and to walk away a bit wiser for the experience. PM me and I will ship them.
Peace
Fightingquaker13 hopefully a friendly adversary
No we DON'T agree FQ, First off I don't give 2 shits about "justice". I want REVENGE for offenses against my country. Second, I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks, I am not a "citizen of the world" I AM AN AMERICAN AND DAMN PROUD OF IT .
I HAVE read the Prince, I particularly liked the line that said If you MUST harm a man hurt him so badly that his vengeance need never be feared.
Korea and Gulf War I were classic examples of snatching stalemate from the jaws of victory. What you mistakenly refer to as "victory" in GW I is equivalent to declaring victory in Europe because Hitlers forces were pushed out of France and Poland.
If Gulf War I had been a VICTORY there would have been NO Gulf war II.
It's pretty obvious that you have never lived on the streets of a bad neighborhood, you exhibit the insulated mind set of ignorant academic suburbia.
In the real world, where guys you work with are gangbangers after hours, and your neighbors are thieves, drug dealers and murderers it is easy to "reason" with these people, You conduct yourself politely and reasonably until some one offends against you, then you find that person and you beat him half (give or take) to death with a bat being sure to shatter major joints (knees and elbows, if he stole from you make sure to hammer his hands thoroughly) then continue to be reasonable and polite to everyone else. If that individual attempts to gain revenge on you you kill him and all his supporters. That is called negotiating from a position of strength and you only have to cripple a couple people before the word gets out that folks dealing with you get a lot further by being reasonable.
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No we DON'T agree FQ, First off I don't give 2 shits about "justice". I want REVENGE for offenses against my country. Second, I don't give a shit what the rest of the world thinks, I am not a "citizen of the world" I AM AN AMERICAN AND DAMN PROUD OF IT .
I HAVE read the Prince, I particularly liked the line that said If you MUST harm a man hurt him so badly that his vengeance need never be feared.
Korea and Gulf War I were classic examples of snatching stalemate from the jaws of victory. What you mistakenly refer to as "victory" in GW I is equivalent to declaring victory in Europe because Hitlers forces were pushed out of France and Poland.
If Gulf War I had been a VICTORY there would have been NO Gulf war II.
It's pretty obvious that you have never lived on the streets of a bad neighborhood, you exhibit the insulated mind set of ignorant academic suburbia.
In the real world, where guys you work with are gangbangers after hours, and your neighbors are thieves, drug dealers and murderers it is easy to "reason" with these people, You conduct yourself politely and reasonably until some one offends against you, then you find that person and you beat him half (give or take) to death with a bat being sure to shatter major joints (knees and elbows, if he stole from you make sure to hammer his hands thoroughly) then continue to be reasonable and polite to everyone else. If that individual attempts to gain revenge on you you kill him and all his supporters. That is called negotiating from a position of strength and you only have to cripple a couple people before the word gets out that folks dealing with you get a lot further by being reasonable.
Tom, not really sure where the anger is coming from, but you really don't know me if you think I've lived on easy street. I put myself through school on an ROTC scholarship and working as a courier (and yes that includes DC winters when its 35 and drizzling and there is just enough ice to make you tip your bike). I coud only afford the dorms my first year and after that I got to live in some of the more "interesting" parts of our nations capital where I couldn't even legally own a gun. (whether a gun was owned and or carried none the less, we will leave to speculation). So don't think I don't know what its like to work two jobs, go to school and live in a neighborhood that might as well be a stage set on "Cops".
As I keep telling Haz, and now I'll tell you, I too care not for justice. Unlike you I don't care that much about revenge, because while I'd like some, its a luxury good. What I want is an end to these yahoos. Since I've not made my point through argument, I'll try humor. Here is the story of the old bull (me) and the young bull (you and Haz):
The old bull and the young bull walked up the side of a lovely hill on bright spring day. Upon reaching the top, they spied a herd of lovely young cows. The young bull says" Lets run down there and screw one of those cows".
The old bull says "No, lets walk down there and screw them all".
This is the sum total of our disagreement, not what to do, just how best to do it.
FQ13 Who's always loved that joke ;D
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Heard from ABC Martha Raddatz that the SEALs had gyro-stabilized weapons. I think that is cheating ;D
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When the U.S. Navy SEALs went in on there boats and did what the had to do and snipers shot them now thats gun control shooting on the sea like. That must of bean awsome.
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French nab 11 pirates as threats mount on US ships
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090415/ap_on_re_af/piracy;_ylt=AoM61tj0Ua3rJ8NVJ9bTgris0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTI4bXZkNjJzBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMDkwNDE1L3BpcmFjeQRjcG9zAzQEcG9zAzEyBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3RvcnkEc2xrA2ZyZW5jaG5hYjExcA--
By ELIZABETH A. KENNEDY, Associated Press Writer Elizabeth A. Kennedy, Associated Press Writer – 59 mins ago
MOMBASA, Kenya – A pirate gang that staged an abortive attack on a second U.S. ship loaded with food aid said Wednesday they were singling out American vessels and would kill their crews. French forces detained 11 other hijackers in a high-seas raid. Pirates fired grenades and automatic weapons at the cargo ship Liberty Sun, but its American crew successfully blockaded themselves inside the engine room. The ship was damaged in Tuesday's attack but escaped and was heading to Kenya under U.S. Navy guard.
A pirate whose gang attacked the ship said Wednesday that his group was targeting American ships and sailors.
"We will seek out the Americans and if we capture them we will slaughter them," said a 25-year-old pirate based in the Somali port of Harardhere who gave only his first name, Ismail.
"We will target their ships because we know their flags. Last night, an American-flagged ship escaped us by a whisker. We have showered them with rocket-propelled grenades," boasted Ismail, who did not take part in the attack on the Liberty Sun.
The move comes after U.S. Navy sharpshooters killed three pirates Sunday to win the release of a hijacked American sea captain, Richard Phillips of the Maersk Alabama.
Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton said the U.S. will pursue new efforts to track down and freeze the assets of pirates, who have reaped multimillion-dollar ransoms for ships they have captured.
"We may be dealing with a 17th century crime, but we need to bring 21st century solutions to bear," she said at a news conference in Washington.
Clinton said the Obama administration also would call for immediate meetings of an international counter-piracy task force to expand naval coordination against pirates operating in the key shipping lanes off Somalia.
French forces launched an early morning attack on a pirate ship after spotting it Tuesday with a surveillance helicopter and observing the pirates overnight. The raid thwarted the bandits' planned attack on the Liberian cargo ship Safmarine Asia, the French Defense Ministry said.
The statement called the pirate vessel a "mother ship" — usually a seized foreign ship that pirates use to transport speedboats far out to sea and resupply them. The ship was intercepted 550 miles (900 kilometers) east of the Kenyan city of Mombasa.
The 11 detained pirates were being held on the Nivose, a French frigate serving in the international fleet trying to protect shipping in the Gulf of Aden.
France has traditionally been aggressive in fighting piracy — this was its ninth military operation against pirates. Three Somali pirates were in the French city of Rennes on Wednesday facing judicial investigation after being captured in a hostage rescue Friday. Several other pirates are also in French custody after being seized last year.
Tuesday's attack on the Liberty Sun foiled the reunion between Phillips and the 19-man crew he saved with his heroism. Phillips had planned to meet his crew in Mombasa and fly home with them Wednesday, but was stuck on the USS Bainbridge when it was diverted to help the Liberty Sun.
The crew left without him, flying to Andrews Air Force base in Maryland in a chartered plane.
"We are very happy to be going home," crewman William Rios of New York City said before departing Wednesday. "(But) we are disappointed to not be reuniting with the captain in Mombasa. He is a very brave man."
Third mate Colin Wright, from Galveston, Texas, told ABC's "Good Morning America" that fighting off pirates gave him a new appreciation for life.
"I'll just love to hug my mother," Wright said. "Everybody out there give your mother a hug. Yeah, don't wait. Life is precious. And what a beautiful world."
The Liberty Sun had left Houston with a crew of 20 American sailors and a load of aid for the U.N. World Food Program. It warded off the pirates with evasive maneuvers, said U.S. Navy Lt. Nathan Christensen of the Bahrain-based 5th Fleet.
"We are under attack by pirates, we are being hit by rockets. Also bullets," Liberty Sun crewman Thomas Urbik, 26, wrote his mother in an e-mail. "We are barricaded in the engine room and so far no one is hurt. (A) rocket penetrated the bulkhead but the hole is small. Small fire, too, but put out."
By the time the Bainbridge arrived five hours later, the pirates had left. A small group of armed U.S. sailors from the Bainbridge went aboard the Liberty Sun to ensure its safe journey to Mombasa.
Despite President Barack Obama's vow to take action against the rise in banditry and the deaths of five pirates in French and U.S. hostage rescues, brigands have seized four vessels and more than 75 hostages since Sunday's dramatic rescue of Phillips.
Pirates released a Greek-owned cargo ship Wednesday and Greek authorities said all 24 crewmen on the Titan were in good health. The ship had been hijacked March 19 in the Gulf of Aden.
In all, Somali pirates are holding over 280 sailors on 15 ships — at least 76 of those sailors captured in the last few days. Pirates have attacked 79 ships this year and hijacked 19 of them, according to the International Maritime Bureau, a piracy watchdog.
Pirates can extort $1 million or more for each ship and crew seized off the Horn of Africa — and Kenya estimates they raked in $150 million last year.
The United States has asked the International Red Cross and Somali officials to help locate the families of the three pirates slain Sunday by Navy snipers so their remains can be returned, a senior U.S. official said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak on the record.
The difficulties in getting food aid delivered could leave some Somalis hungry.
World Food Program spokesman Peter Smerdon said more food aid was to have been delivered by another cargo ship hijacked Tuesday, the Lebanese-owned MV Sea Horse. It was headed to Mumbai, India, to pick up 7,327 tons of WFP food for Somalia.
"WFP is also extremely concerned that people in Somalia will go hungry unless the Sea Horse is quickly released or a replacement ship can be found," he said.
Hours before the attack on the Sea Horse, pirates seized the Greek-managed bulk carrier MV Irene E.M. in an unusual nighttime raid. They also captured two Egyptian fishing trawlers carrying 36 fishermen.
Pirates say they are fighting illegal fishing and dumping of toxic waste in Somali waters but now operate hundreds of miles from there in a sprawling 1.1 million square-mile danger zone.
A flotilla of warships from nearly a dozen countries has patrolled the Gulf of Aden and nearby Indian Ocean waters for months. They have halted many attacks but say the area is so vast they can't stop all hijackings.
The Gulf of Aden, which links the Suez Canal and the Red Sea to the Indian Ocean, is the shortest route from Asia to Europe. More than 20,000 ships cross the vital sea lane every year.
Pirate attacks in the region have rapidly increased lately, according to the International Maritime Bureau. In less than four months this year, there have been 79 attacks, compared to 111 for all of 2008.
In 2003, there were only 21 attacks by Somalis in this expanse of water.
Last year pirates took 815 sailors hostage and hijacked 42 ships.
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Associated Press writers Mohamed Olad Hassan in Mogadishu, Somalia; Tom Maliti, Michelle Faul, Malkhadir M. Muhumed and Todd Pitman in Kenya; Eileen Ng in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia; Jenny Barchfield in Paris and Pauline Jelinek in Washington contributed to this report.