The Down Range Forum
Member Section => Politics & RKBA => Topic started by: Hazcat on April 14, 2009, 09:14:11 AM
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It is a common fantasy that gun bans make society safer. Peace Movement Aotearoa, based in New Zealand, calls itself a “national networking organization…interested in peace and social justice.” A fact sheet on their site is entitled Sharp Drop in Gun Crime Follows Tough Australian Firearm Laws. It’s very revealing that gun ban organizations validate gun control by focusing on gun-involved violence while avoiding any mention of overall violent crime trends.
According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, there was a slight drop in the percent of murders committed with a firearm between 2001 and 2007 (16.0% and 13.4%, respectively). However, the percentage was highest in 2006 (16.3%) and remains higher than the low of 8.9% in 2005. There is no difference in the use of a firearm in robbery: Guns were used in 6.4% of all robberies in both 2001 and 2007.
In 2002–five years after enacting its gun ban–the Australian Bureau of Criminology acknowledged there is no correlation between gun control and the use of firearms in violent crime: “The percentage of homicides committed with a firearm continued its declining trend since 1969.”
Even the head of Australia’s Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, acknowledged that the gun ban had no significant impact on the amount of gun-involved crime:
There has been a drop in firearm-related crime, particularly in homicide, but it began long before the new laws and has continued on afterwards. I don't think anyone really understands why. A lot of people assume that the tougher laws did it, but I would need more specific, convincing evidence …
There has been a more specific … problem with handguns, which rose up quite rapidly and then declined. The decline appears to have more to do with the arrest of those responsible than the new laws. As soon as the heroin shortage hit, the armed robbery rate came down. I don't think it was anything to do with the tougher firearm laws.
Weatherburn also acknowledged that the best crime measure consists of “the arrest of those responsible.”
Moreover, Australia and America both experienced similar decreases in murder rates: Between 1995 and 2007, Australia saw a 31.9% decrease; without a gun ban, America’s rate dropped 31.7%.
Now for the rest of the story
During the same time period, all other violent crime indices increased in Australia: assault rose 49.2% and robbery 6.2%. Sexual assault–Australia’s equivalent term for rape–increased 29.9%. Overall, Australia’s violent crime rate rose 42.2%. At the same time, U.S. violent crime decreased 31.8%: rape dropped 19.2%; robbery decreased 33.2%; aggravated assault dropped 32.2%. Australian women are now raped over three times as often as American women (whom ABC reports are arming themselves at record rates because of safety concerns):
More women, from soccer moms to professionals like the ones at the Blue Ridge Arsenal gun range in Chantilly, Va., are packing heat for sport, self-empowerment and protection.
While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy. Moreover, for groups like Peace Movement Aotearoa, it’s apparently social justice when more people are raped, robbed, and assaulted, as long as they cannot defend themselves with firearms. This highlights the most important point: Gun banners promote failed policy irregardless of the consequences to the people who must live with them.
http://www.examiner.com/x-2879-Austin-Gun-Rights-Examiner~y2009m4d8-Australia-experiencing-more-violent-crime-despite-gun-ban
Bold by me
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While this doesn’t prove that more guns would impact crime rates, it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy.
Gun ban and violent crime go hand in hand. :o
Whack jobs have no fear of "Make My Day You Scum Bag"
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Don't get caught in the trap that we have to show having "more guns = less crime" or that guns have any positive effect in general on society. With all due respect to Mr. Lott, it is completely irrelevent to the fight for gun rights.
All we need to show, which we can do without an iota of controversy, is that more (or the same amount of) guns don't result in more negative consequences of any kind.
To restrict a right, or even a privilege, requires convincing people that the added restrictions will make things safer. That is one thing the anti's cannot do, they have no studies to support their contentions.
Every reputable study shows a continuing decrease in gun accidents and violent crime rates even as the raw numbers of guns and the percentage owned in this country increases. we win the argument hands down.
That's all we need to keep hammering, that guns are in fact irrelevent in a negative sense to crime or accident rates.
When we introduce "things will get better" we are on shakier statistical ground and open our entire position to being challenged on that one weakness. Why give the anti's the hook?
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Don't get caught in the trap that we have to show having "more guns = less crime" or that guns have any positive effect in general on society. With all due respect to Mr. Lott, it is completely irrelevent to the fight for gun rights.
All we need to show, which we can do without an iota of controversy, is that more (or the same amount of) guns don't result in more negative consequences of any kind.
To restrict a right, or even a privilege, requires convincing people that the added restrictions will make things safer. That is one thing the anti's cannot do, they have no studies to support their contentions.
Every reputable study shows a continuing decrease in gun accidents and violent crime rates even as the raw numbers of guns and the percentage owned in this country increases. we win the argument hands down.
That's all we need to keep hammering, that guns are in fact irrelevent in a negative sense to crime or accident rates.
When we introduce "things will get better" we are on shakier statistical ground and open our entire position to being challenged on that one weakness. Why give the anti's the hook?
Headshot!
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it does prove that gun control is a flawed policy.
Gun ban and violent crime go hand in hand. :o
Correct, who would of thought that.
there is a bit of rechearch recently 10 years after the buy Steel Back we had showing it was a waist of time and money
still today we see gun crime ( with hand guns ), and there have been some public shooting where people have been killed, usually over drug war or turf wars with bikie gangs
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Interesting mindset by the politicians down under.
http://www.itwillpass.com/quotes_famous_liberty_quotes.shtml
It won't let me copy individual quotes, but the PM of Australia is quoted in RED against other famous quotes.
In reaching a historic agreement on the prohibition of weapons,we made a mighty contribution to a safer and more secure Australian Society. Prime Minister John Howard
Under the new laws, personal protection is not a reason to be licensed to own a firearm. Queensland Gun Law Jan. 1997.
It goes on in a scary kind of way.
Sorry philw.
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Interesting mindset by the politicians down under.
http://www.itwillpass.com/quotes_famous_liberty_quotes.shtml
It won't let me copy individual quotes, but the PM of Australia is quoted in RED against other famous quotes.
In reaching a historic agreement on the prohibition of weapons,we made a mighty contribution to a safer and more secure Australian Society. Prime Minister John Howard
Under the new laws, personal protection is not a reason to be licensed to own a firearm. Queensland Gun Law Jan. 1997.
It goes on in a scary kind of way.
Sorry philw.
here is another from John "I hate guns" Howard
"Its time to bite the bullet and take a stand so Australia does not go down the path of the US with its gun culture." Prime Minister John Howard - Sunday Telegraph - NSW - 21/7/96
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It seems an armed society is a polite society. Guns are not the ansewer for crime but criminals think twice before attacking if firearms may be present. I keep a Moss 500 12 ga behind the door of my closet, and my girl keep a glock22 in the nightstand. MOB is all i can say.